With no experience with big bores and wanting a 460 G & A mag ever since reading the Jeff Cooper book I need advice. Since I am on a budget I am considering trying to have a CZ Safari Grade 458 converted to the 460. Is this feasible? Thanks for your help.

I haven't done it myself, but that sounds like one of the most straight forward conversions.

As a former owner of a 458 lott, and future owner of a 458 HRH (450 G&A with minor changes), I know you'll enjoy your "class II" 45. There is something special about a rifle that pushes a 500 gr bullet at 2300-2400 fps.

By choosing the CZ550 you made it easy. If you had chosen a Mauser, you would need to open up the receiver, buy new bottom metal and maybe get a new stock.

On the CZ, get an experienced smith to ream it out, install a 2nd recoil lug, then work the rails to make it feed.

Hey Paul and 500 Gr, Your answers have sure made me happy guys. I'm on a contract in Mexico but when I go home for Christmas I'll get the project started. Thanks.

Bob,

I have handled Jeff Cooper's .460 G&A "Baby", and shot John Gannaway's .460 G&A. John's rifle is built on the older BRNO M602 action and has the pop-up ghost ring sight. I think John said he built this sight, but the actions used to come from the factory with them.

The problem with the cartridge is the small shoulder you are left with after necking up the .404 to .458". There is enough for the careful reloader, but not overmuch.

When Art Alphin designed the Dakota line of cartridges, he left off with the .404 brass at the .416 Dakota and used a larger case for the .450 Dakota -- his base was A-Square .300 Excalibur.

I just got some brass from Jim Busha at Heavy Express for his .450 and .460 cartridges. His two lines of cartridges are based on the .348 Win with the rim turned off, and shortened. They fit short and standard actions. Winchester knocked off Jim's .300 and is calling it the .300 WSM. I am looking at the .460 version. The .460 case is .543" at the base next to the extractor groove and is 2.245" long (measured with my dial caliper). I believe the .404 Jeff case is .545 at the base.

jim

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"if you are to busy to
hunt, you are too busy."

Thanks Jim, I remember that Jeff Cooper built his "Baby" on a Brno 602 also. I have two 601s and you are right-they have the sight as you discribe. I had planned to have the ghost ring built. I thought the CZ Safari grade is as close as I can get to the 602 which is why I am considering it. I have some time so won't make a hasty decision. If you have futher recommendations, in particular regarding a different case which will produce similiar ballistics please let me know. Again, muchos gracias for your input.

Bob,

The 416 rigby necked up will solve the shoulder issue. There are a few flavors of this round, the 450 Dakota, the 450 Rigby, and the belted version, the 460 Weatherby.

I had planned on having a 2.5" long 404 based 45 made, but after reviewing the shoulder that would result, have scrapped the idea, and will settle for a plain jane 458 win mag.

IMHO, your options are either the 458 lott on the smaller side, which will push a 500 gr 2300, or the 450 Dakota/Rigby on the large side, which will require more work to the action, but will push 500's 2400 fps, and at moderate pressure.

With Hornady producing 458 lott factory ammo, factory dies shouldn't be far behind, as well as component brass.

OK Paul, Thanks. As I said I'm pretty ignorant on big stuff so I learn something with each poating you guys make. How much more work on the action for the necked up Rigby? Any other suggestions appreciated.

Bob,

The easy way to do the Rigby project is start with a 416 Rigby CZ 550, yank the barrel and have a 458 barrel fit and reamed 450 Rigby, and walla, all done, no need to open the bolt, tweak the rails, or mess with the magazene. Cost wise you are probably looking at a wash, or perhaps a couple $'s ahead, the real savings is the potential grief of someone incorectly doing the magazene and rail work.

I know John Ricks had a spare Ruger #1 take off barrel in 458 that I traded him, and I don't think he's used it for anything. He's putting the barrel band sight and sling swivel from that barrel on my 500 Jeffrey barrel, but could order another set, and a 1/4 rib. The other barrel he's fitting to a 98 mauser for me to become the 458 win mag I mentioned.

This may be your least exspensive option, and will provide a nice looking gun with a thick 23" barrel, barrel band hardware and quarter rib. Drop him a line star@olypen.com or (360) 457-6931 and see if he still has the barrel. I'll take a WAG that the hardware and machine work will come to $400-500 range. You'd also have to throw in a couple $'s for opening the barrel channel.

Bob,

I like Paul's approach in starting with the Chay Zed in .416 Rigby and moving up to the .458 barrel and .450 Rigby chamber. You begin with a proper magazine box and rails which should be close to feeding properly -- probably the hardest thing to get right.

The .450 Rigby factory loads from KYNAMCO are really excellent: 480 grains at 2,368 fps.

jim

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"if you are to busy to
hunt, you are too busy."

Thanks Jim, Seems like with you guys help I'm getting somewhere. I'll check with him on the barrel.

Paul, I left you off that last posting. Sorry. I really appreciate your help.

Bob,

I'm expecting my CZ550 (originally a .458) back from the gunsmith before the end of the year. I'll be posting here when I get it back and, with the gunsmith's permission, I'll post about him too. He is a well-known 'smith and owns my reamers and gauges for the 460 G&A as part of the project.

I suspect the rifle will be a shooter - it was when it was a .458.

redleg

Thanks Redleg, I am interested in how your project works out. Paul's idea about rebarreling a 550 416 Rigby to 458 and reaming to the necked up 450 seems reasonable. That would eliminate any chance of feed problems and the small shoulder problem with the 460 G & A. Keep me posted.

I really don't see the headspacing problems associated with the 460 G&A. On the chamber, the 404 Jeffrey shoulder is moved forward a bit and the resultant shoulder has more to headspace than the standard 35 Whelen. On top of that, it's a little easier to make a 5 round magazine for a 404 bases cartridge than it is for a Rigby based cartridge. I wish these folks stating headspace problems would do more than read what's published. The 460 G&A will have no trouble headspacing and if you would like to have the powder capacity to drive 500 grain bullets at 2650 fps+, then go with the Rigby/Weatherby version - if you want pressure under control and 2350 or a little more from 500 grain .458 bullets, the 460 G&A is the case that will get you there.

Take a look at the cartridge case pictued for the 450 Vincent short and long at this site under the reloading data area. That is essentially the 460 G&A. Eyeball the shoulder - do you think it will have trouble headspacing? You make the call...

Just friendly opinion.

redleg

[This message has been edited by redleg155 (edited 12-04-2001).]

Redleg,

Here is a data point on headspace problems with the .460 G&A.

Art Alphin told me that he could not trust manufacturing tolerances to produce .460 G&A ammo, which was why he did not have it in his line. That was also his stated reason for not using the .404 case as the parent for the .450 Dakota. Art's opinion was an experienced handloader could build proper reloads, but that the manufacturing line could not.

He was willing to run cylindrical brass with the .460 G&A headstamp for anybody who wanted to pay for it.

jim

jim

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"if you are to busy to
hunt, you are too busy."

Jim and Redleg, Thanks for these latest inputs. I shot a line to John Ricks as Paul recommended. He has already responded and said he would get back to me with more info. I'll not make a decision yet but will continue to monitor this posting and listen to the advice of John also. I'll let you know what we decide. Again, thanks