Woodleigh/Hornady .450/.400

17 March 2009, 18:14

I have a .405 Winchester Model 1895 reproduction. I've found that it shoots the Woodleigh 400 grain solids quite well at a wee bit below 2000 fps. The only problem is that the cannelure is a bit too far out on the bullet and the design of the magazine box causes the bottom two cartridges to sometimes stick (the first two, loading just fine).

I just wonder, if any one has both, what the difference is, if any, from the cannelure to the point. I recognize, of course, that the Hornady has a "flat" meplat and is .410 diameter and the Woodleigh is .411, but I'd like to try the Hornady's if they are a bit shorter cannelure to tip?

Could someone measure if they have both. I'd appreciate it.

18 March 2009, 01:44

N E 450 No2

Judge

Just trim the 405 cases shorter, until you can crimp them in the proper place on the bullet. You might have to adjust the powder charge or use a drop tube to keep it from being compressed too much.

18 March 2009, 07:21

JudgeG

Tony:
Being retired gives you too much time to think of good solutions. Go back to work! Yours will be my "bail out" solution.

If both the Hornady and Woodleighs are too long (and I know the Woodleighs are), my "new" gunsmith says he can "bow" the front of the magazine box a bit without compromising function. I hate do that, but a really accurate, fast handling rifle that doesn't weigh 8 pounds and can send five 400 grain .411 bullets in three seconds at a target at 2000 fps might just make the whole enterprise worthwhile.

But... anybody have both bullets to measure. Shorter is better, btw. I just wish I could convince my girlfriend of that.

18 March 2009, 07:45

Bent Fossdal

There is a device one can buy that makes new cannelures on bullets. Never tried it, maybe some has? But setting deeper reduces velocity, Tony's advice sounds good.

18 March 2009, 10:01

N E 450 No2

Judge.
My dial caliper is still acked away, but I eyeballed some 400gr Hornady's in dummy 450/400 rounds Hornady gave me with some 400gr Woodleigh Softs and Solids [mine are .408 diameter] and the cannalure to nose length on the Hornadays is shorter.

Still cutting back the case a little bit will work for sure.

18 March 2009, 10:03

N E 450 No2

Another thought is to get some North Fork FP Solids, they will weigh a little less and thus be a little shorter, and IF they feed they will give great penetration.

18 March 2009, 12:02

Bent Fossdal

North Fork does not make solids in .411, after what I could read on their page. But I remember that their 380SP in .423 is longer than a 400 grs leadfilled RWS fmj.

18 March 2009, 16:37

JudgeG

Before Mike sold his company (North Fork), he went to great trouble to develop bullets for me in .405 Winchester. He made me both solids and cup points. The weight was 350 grains which had a sectional density of .296, pretty close to the magic .300. They fit with plenty of room in the magazine and fed like Rosie O'Donnell at a cheap buffet. Velocity was almost 2200 fps. Buffalo didn't like them nor did impalla and kongoni.

I wish they still made them!

Tony, thanks for the eyeball estimate. I'm getting there.

19 March 2009, 04:59

NFMike

Judge

I showed the new guys where to find the program for the 413 we made for yours. Even if they can't find it, they have a CAD that we go back and forth on and we can come up with it again. Plus, sinse then, I acquired a 405 test barrel so we can REALLY know what we are doing this time. If you want to use the others and you are adamant about the crimp groove, like Tony said, just trim the case until it will crimp where the groove is and achieve max OAL. And I AIN'T retired

BTW, I am not a fan of "making" a new crimp groove on a DG bullet. It can cause a failure point if stressed enough. That would be fine for most applications except where you can get you ass stomped if one were to fail.

19 March 2009, 05:09

SR4759

JudgeG,
Just call engineering at Hornady. They will tell you the dimensions. I had a questions about their gas checks once and the guy on the phone gave me the dimensions of the .500 gas check right off of the CAD file.
And no - the .500 gas checks are not big enough to use in a .508 or .510 bore rifle.

19 March 2009, 16:04

JudgeG

quote:
Originally posted by NFMike:
Judge

I showed the new guys where to find the program for the 413 we made for yours. Even if they can't find it, they have a CAD that we go back and forth on and we can come up with it again. Plus, sinse then, I acquired a 405 test barrel so we can REALLY know what we are doing this time. If you want to use the others and you are adamant about the crimp groove, like Tony said, just trim the case until it will crimp where the groove is and achieve max OAL. And I AIN'T retired BTW, I am not a fan of "making" a new crimp groove on a DG bullet. It can cause a failure point if stressed enough. That would be fine for most applications except where you can get you ass stomped if one were to fail.

Mike:

You're the man! I remember well your working practically all night to get the bullets right! Any you did!

I'll contact your successors.

19 March 2009, 18:50

NFMike

What is your time frame? The last tiem it was "next week"

We may have to go back and forth to test for feed again if they can't convert the program to their new machinery. As you recall, my rifle was exactly like yours so we can make sure it feeds in mine and we are good to go. BTW, as I recall, they were 330 grain but they penetrated like an SOB. I can't speak for the nw guys but maybe we can take a look at 350. Check with them and I will help however I can. I hope you fixed the friggin self adjusting rear sight

Mike

20 March 2009, 02:31

JudgeG

I think you are right about the weight. Even at 330 grains the sectional density is .279 or so, better than a 270 grain .375 bullet.

I'm in no hurry at all. I'll contact them and remind them that you vouch for my wonderful charactor, valor and stupidity.