Why ".375" H&H??

24 June 2003, 01:11

WannabeBwana

Why ".375" H&H??

I'm sure most, if not all of you, are aware of the British practice of naming cartridges by the caliber at lands, instead of grooves (.256 Newton fires a .264 bullet, .275 Mauser is a .284, 300 H&H a .308, 303 British a .311 etc.)

Even their newest releases are named the traditional way - .400 H&H shoots a .411, and the .465 shoots a .468 (Ok, not quite).

So, why did they go against practice (and tradition), and name it the .375, instead of the .366 H&H?

24 June 2003, 02:16

KurtC

For safety purposes. When the .375 cartridges (Rimless NE, H&H, etc) came out, there had already been .366 cartridges (9.3) in use for a good number of years. That kind of confusion could have disastrous results.

I'm sure marketing played an important role, as both Mannlicher and Holland were trying to convince hunters that they needed a "375" for Africa. Calling the cartridge a .366 might give the impression that it was only a 9.3mm.

24 June 2003, 02:17

I suppose it just does not have the same ring to it [Confused]

24 June 2003, 09:07

WannabeBwana

KurtC, can't say I buy the competition argument. This was the era of the proprietary cartridge. You designed your own cartridges, and if anyone wanted to buy one of your guns, they had to buy it in the cartridges you designed or provided. It didn't matter what anyone else was producing, because they had the same rules. The makers really didn't care about others cartridge choices. At the time the .375 H&H came out, no one else would have been allowed to chamber a gun for it, at least for retail purposes.

Besides, they were still fairly early into the smokeless powder era. In many cases, people were running around trying to kill anything they could with the smallest gun they could. Remember Bell and his 7 X 57?

24 June 2003, 09:31

Atkinson

Fisher,
Actually only a couple of proprietary cartridges existed, and they found out very quickly that the practice killed sales and discontinued the practice..

The 375 H&H was named for its .375 bore..Nothing mysterious about that.

24 June 2003, 09:52

Mickey1

Interesting enough, the 369 Purdey is also a .366 bullet. It is a proprietary cartridge and only 72 rifles were ever built for it. The .375 H&H was not and the 375 flanged easily out paced the Purdey in all brands of rifles.

24 June 2003, 10:06

KurtC

When the H&H came out, the .375 Rimless NE (9.5 Mannlicher) had already been in use in Africa, with marginal results. H&H would have had a hard time convincing folks that their cartridge was more powerful if they called it the .366 H&H magnum, when it used the same bullet as the Mannlicher cartridge.

I think this was the beginning of the "bigger is better" era, and H&H wasn't going to risk cornering the market over a technicality.

24 June 2003, 11:09

MacD37

quote:
Originally posted by KurtC:
I think this was the beginning of the "bigger is better" era, and H&H wasn't going to risk cornering the market over a technicality.

When the 375 H&H came out, it was considered a small cartridge, because the norm was the Guage guns, where Africa was concerened, with the 500 NE being considered only addiquate. The main reason it was labled as the 375 H&H was it's, then revolutionary belt, for headspaceing, while still allowing a very tapered case, to facilitate extraction. As to the 300 H&H being .308 dia, so are all 30 cal rounds, ours included! The main reason for the designations for cartridge names, is, because the designer wanted to name it that way, nothing more. There are no set rules for nameing cartridges. Just look at all Weatherby cartridges, none are named by land, or grouve, but simply to seem larger than the compition.
The 340 wby= .338, the 378wby=.375, 460 wby = .458

Our own cartridges are named in many different ways, as whim dictates: 30-06 dia .308,and (06) for the year, 30-30 (the second 30 is for 30 grs smokeless) 38 spcl, actually .357, or not quite 36 cal., 44 spcl, or mag, actually .429, or not quite 43 cal. And the list is endless. [Big Grin]

[ 06-24-2003, 02:11: Message edited by: MacD37 ]

24 June 2003, 13:56

KurtC

Wasn't there already a belted .375 prior to the H&H? I think it was about the same size as the Mannlicher cartridge.

25 June 2003, 17:40

Karl

Was that the Velopex cartridge?

Karl.

25 June 2003, 19:09

ALF

25 June 2003, 19:26

LV Eric

quote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
Fisher,
Actually only a couple of proprietary cartridges existed, and they found out very quickly that the practice killed sales and discontinued the practice..

The 375 H&H was named for its .375 bore..Nothing mysterious about that.

Ray's right on this one. He had only been in the business for 5 or 6 years when the 375 H&H came out back in 1912. But being an enthustaic young man he took notes of all manufactors studied them and commited them to memorie so one day he could clear up this type of question. Thanks Ray.
[Wink]