I have been informed by Speer, a subsidiary of Federal, that Speer would be making Trophy Bonded Bullets available to handloaders next month. That's the good news. The bad news, for me, is that they will not be providing them in .474 caliber, either soft or solid. I am sure that Federal will be using them in their factory .470 N.E., but have chosen not to make them available to handloaders. As you know, double rifles are pretty finicky and don't like all bullets. Mine likes Trophy Bonded.
If this is an inconvenience to you as well, perhaps you can call Speer at 1-800-627-3640 and express your concerns. It doesn't seem fair to Jack!

Jim

Sorry for my ignorance on this subject, but did Trophy Bonded go out of business or get bought out?

Both. Jack Carter sold the manufacturing rights to Federal, but kept selling bullets to handloaders from stock he had on hand. When he passed away last year that business folded.

The Trophy Bonded Sledgehammes will compete with the African Grand Slams, which are more expensive.

Speer, Hornady and Sierra are really missing out on the big bore market. They do not offer anything larger than .458 because the sales of bullets above .458 diameter are small. Of course the sales are small, because no mainstream U.S. company offers them. If they offered them, the market would buy them.

Likewise, if Winchester chambered the model 70 in an off-the-shelf (NOT custom shop) 458 lott, 470 capstick and 500 jeffery, and if CZ offered the CZ550 in 500 A-Square and 585 nyati, they would sell the heck out of them.

500 Grains,

I took on a project to acquire left-hand stopping rifles for two PHs I know who are lefties. After reviewing the market, I am now building LH stopping rifles.

I could easily build right-hand rifles as well, and the calibers are of course negotiable since this is a semi-custom operation. So how many people would be a potential buyer?

jim dodd

------------------
"if you are to busy to
hunt, you are too busy."

hunterjim,

Winchester offers their model 70 claw extractor with wood stock, barrel band sling swivel, sights, etc. in .458 win mag for about $800 or $850. Their cost of making it in 458 lott or 470 capstick would be the same. They would sell lots of them, as there is currently a big bore craze in this country.

Cz550's in .375 or .416 sell for about $650 in my area. They could up that to $800 to cover set-up to get started making them in 585 nyati and 500 jeffery (or 505 gibbs) and they would sell like hotcakes, again because there is a big bore craze. Lots of people would like to have these big thumpers, just for fun, but are unwilling either to undertake an expensive and uncertain custom project, or to lay down $5k to $10K to buy a pre-built gun.

Personally, I think PH's represent only a very very small fraction of the potential market. The 50 Alaskan is a reality because the public demanded it. You can buy 470 NE barrels for a Thompson Encore because the public demands it. If the marketing guys at Winchester or CZ were at all in touch with the market, they would realize that this is the time to introduce big bores. BUt again, I am talking about something that is off the shelf and of reasonable price.

What do you think?

[This message has been edited by 500grains (edited 02-28-2002).]

HunterJim,

Which action are you using for the LH big bores? I'm a lefty, and wondering what options I have beyond .458 Lott...

Thanks.

Pertinax

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 500grains:
I sent an e-mail to Hornady two months ago to ask them if they were aver going to produce 500 grain .475 solids and softs. I mentioned the number of people that I thought showed interest and they said they would look into the market. I think they are limited to ten words or less when they send e-mails from Hornady. I've asked them a couple of times and both replies were very short. " I won't say yes but I won't say no"

470 Mbogo

I posted a little while back that you can order these. Here's the link. http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/department.asp?dept=Reloading&dept2=JACKETED+RIFLE&dept3=.308+DIA&dept4=SPEER

For the 375 http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/department.asp?dept=Reloading&dept2=JACKETED+RIFLE&dept3=.375+DIA&dept4=SPEER

And for the .458 caliber http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/department.asp?dept=Reloading&dept2=JACKETED+RIFLE&dept3=.458+DIA&dept4=SPEER

500 Grains,

From talking to makers of custom rifles, there is a jump in recoil effects on the rifle itself from the .458 Win Mag to the .458 Lott and similar and bigger calibers. D'Arcy Echols gave me a tutorial in his booth once upon a SCI Convention on what he does to build a .458 Lott that will be reliable in the monster killer chambering.

I haven't talked to Winchester/USRAC about why they build these rifles only in the Custom Shop, but I will. My opinion is the factory production rifle will not stand up in the field.

Perhaps one of our European correspondents has a connection with the folks at Chay Zed and can ask them to comment.

If my only market was PHs, I would not even consider this as a business line. Fortunately a lot of left-handed shooters would be in the market as well, and the right-handed version of the rifle can sell to the other 80%.

Pertinax,

I have an order in the queue with Montana Rifleman for 3 of their LH M99 actions that they say will be available this summer. We shall see.

Zastava/Mark X is a second option, but the right hand Mark X needs some help in .458 rifles, so I expect the LH action they have announced will need the same beefing-up. Charles Daly has announced these ations and rifles, but I have not seen one yet.

The Dakota action will work, but I would rather start building a rifle with a $500 action than an $1,800 to $2,500 action in order to sell at the price point I want to achieve.

Engineering is about economics.

jim dodd

------------------
"if you are to busy to
hunt, you are too busy."

Did anyone call Speer?

Jim

HunterJim,

Thanks. I agree with you about the $500 action vs. the high-$ ones. My interest is solely in "inexpensive" big bores, and a $2K action puts it out of my price range.

I hope that the Montana Rifleman comes through, as we really need a low-priced, CRF long magnum LH action. Otherwise us lefties miss out on all the .50+ fun...

Pertinax

hunterjim,

There is no secret in making a big bore stand up.

1. Relieve the stock around the tang. They should be doing this already, but it can be programmed into the wood cutting machines. There is no additional cost.

2. Add a 2nd recoil lug on the barrel. Winchester already does this, so no additional cost for Win.

3. Bed both recoil lugs in steel bedding. No rocket science there. And how much will this cost?

Of course, I am assuming that feeding issues can be worked out, but with a center feed action like the CZ550, any competent mechanical engineer can resolve the feeding issues in short order. Barrel blanks might cost a few $ more, but not much.

So it is not a high cost proposition. The secret is to build enough of them to justify the initial set-up, and with the current big bore craze, I am sure it could be done.

500grains,

I made sure to keep a copy of the Jack Lott article on stocking the heavy rifle that was scanned and posted to the forum recently.

I don't think there is any mystery to building these rifles, but there is a level of attention to detail that separates the factory production rifle from the sem-custom or custom rifle. That translates directly to higher cost.

I see reports that Winchester for example is using some type of glue bedding. It is a cheap production method, but I am wondering if they use that on the .458 WM, and if so what is the reliability. Does anybody have a recently purchased M70 in .458 who can answer?

When Winchester first said they would build the .470 Capstick in their Custom Shop years ago, I called them to place an order. They told me they didn't have any barrels, and would not accept the order. So I fooled around with a .450 ACkley instead.

jim dodd

------------------
"if you are to busy to
hunt, you are too busy."