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Thanks for that, Alf.

George

Alf,
Yes, thanks for enriching us with this historical glimpse into bullet development.

Uncle John Buhmiller was certainly a pioneer.

I do find it strange that the perpetrators of these tests would be converted to softs by the examples of soft performance shown. Hence the qualifier of "good softs" needed?

PS: I am similarly afflicted as you, but about a decade behind you on the file work.

Alf!

Without knowing the twist of the rifles used in the test the results are meaningless.



465H&H

I know what you should do with those old gunrags, fellas.

Nice find there ALF!

465H&H,
We know what the twist rates are for these calibers. It can be calculated from the angle of the engraving on the bullets.


I must admit that this is the earliest reference I have seen on Flat Nosed bullets for rifles and grooved bullets were nothing new, even in 1967. So, yes, some ideas have been around for a long time but should not be confused with those that have come along in the last ten years or so.

/

John Buhmiller experimented with flat and cup nosed bullets, and used them on African dangerous game, as early as the 1950s.

He was the pre-eminent big bore wildcatter of his day. Buhmiller was the first to neck the .378 Weatherby up to .458 (which later became the .460 Wby.) and then again up to .510 (which later became the .500 A-Square).

He really liked his cup nosed bullets in these calibers for buffalo.

Not twist rates, some are only discovering those now.

I am hinting at negative grooves on a bore caliber shaft - a true two diameter bullet that conforms to existing barrel specifications and cuts down on gas leakage.

Gerard,

one need only look at the original 264 Win Mag to see two-diameter bullets, circa 1956(?) in a factory loaded ammunition.

Rich

I would like to see what they looked like because the question would be whether the two diameters conformed to existing barrel specifications of bore and groove and also cut down on gas leakage. Anyone have an illustration?

I have some 510 grn Winchester .458 Soft points from that time period. They are two diameter bullets.

Gerard,

another example is the Nosler "Zipedo" line. They featured a fairly wide band in the middle of the bullet (maybe middle third?) that was .001-.0015" undersize. Cut pressure, boosted velocity, and nobody ever had any complaints (IIRC) about hunting accuracy or performance. The original .264 bullets were .263" for maybe the front half from where the ogive radius-es into the bore riding diameter of the bullet.

Rich

/

thanks ALF.

Rich

Thanks Alf,
You have not been truthful with us, have you? You are obviously not in the medical field. You are the curator of the world's leading small arms information database. Where do you get these things from?


It seems the Winchester two diameter bullets would then be similar to the Goodnell bullets that were manufactured with a smaller diameter where ogive met shaft and then with a barrel groove diameter shaft. Alf posted pictures of them some time back.

The Nosler Zipedo differs from a GSC HV, FN or SP in that the ogive terminates at barrel groove diameter and the base of the bullet is at barrel bore diameter. This will allow more gas cutting than a drive band bullet and still results in high engraving presssure.

Thus far I am inclined to claim a unique design.