Damascus barrels

20 August 2003, 07:00

<Red Green>

For the same reason you can buy knives with Damascus blades today, and for the same reason you can buy a bespoke W.W. Greener shotgun with Damascus barrels they found in inventory (at least as of a year or two ago). High quality Damascus is absolutely beautiful, and quality Damascus barrels that are nitro proofed are still in use today. If you want to see some neat stuff, check out http://members.toast.net/keithkearcher/ A gorgeous gun with nitro proofed Damascus barrels can be viewed at http://www.vintagedoubles.com/inventory.php?process=fullview&gunID=27

Initially, fluid steel barrels were likely more expensive just as any new product is, but as tooling for such became more prevalent and the processes made more efficient and less labor intensive than Damascus, the change started happening. It didn't hurt that fluid steel barrels had the potential for fewer flaws. In the 1910s and 1920s, many hardware store guns were imported from Belgium that were fluid steel barrels that were made to look like Damascus which likely means that Damascus was seen as more desirable.

20 August 2003, 08:11

<redleg155>

In fact, Fluid Steel guns were marketed as, "Just as good as Damascus" when both were being made.

Good Damascus is truly a lost art when it comes to gunmaking.

redleg

20 August 2003, 09:55

mete

Red Green is right , there were damascus barrels both good and bad quality , and there were fake damascus barrels. Top of the line damascus barrels were very good.

20 August 2003, 16:01

Inyati

If Damascus barrels were produced poorly/cheaply, why was not a fluid steel method employed much earlier for shotgun barrels?

22 August 2003, 05:02

Quail Wing

quote:
Originally posted by Inyati:
Why was it necessary or desireable to utilize Damascus technology to manufacture shotgun barrels when the methodology was available to manufacture a seamless rifle barrel 100 years or so ago?

The move to fluid was slow. It was a matter of marketing. At the time, 1900 - 1920 or so, makers usually offered a choice between fluid or damascus, with damascus demanding a premium. Usually about $5 to $10 more per gun. Which is expensive when you are talking about $20 - $50 shotguns.

A well produced damascus barrel is expensive and difficult to make. As others have stated, there were cheap, poorly produced damascus (twist, laminated, etc) barrels. There were also poorly produced fluid barrels.

Many of the older damascus shotguns are still shootable. It does require a good going over by a competent gunsmith. It also means using black powder loads or speciality low pressure (NOT LOW BRASS)loads using modern components. The acceptable upper limit is for pressures is usually considered to be 6,000 psi.

I regularly hand load black powder for my Lefever G grade with a nice set of damascus barrels.

Pete

10 September 2003, 04:29

mehulkamdar

I've had some correspondence with a Swedish company that makes 1911 auto pistol slides out of damascus steel and has the technology to make modern damascus steel barrels that are as strong as any fluid steel ones - if anyone needs the contact details (though I don't know how practical it wouod be to contact them) I could put you in touch with per Billgren at Damasteel.

www.damasteel.se

Good shooting!

10 September 2003, 05:45

Quail Wing

quote:
Originally posted by mehulkamdar:
I've had some correspondence with a Swedish company that makes 1911 auto pistol slides out of damascus steel and has the technology to make modern damascus steel barrels that are as strong as any fluid steel ones - if anyone needs the contact details (though I don't know how practical it wouod be to contact them) I could put you in touch with per Billgren at Damasteel.

www.damasteel.se

Yes, I have seen their website. In actual fact, they are not making damascus steel. That is, they are not welding high and low carbon steels. Their process is entirely different. It produces some beautiful steel.

They claim to have made a barrel from this. When I contacted them a year ago, they would not supply the name of the barrel maker. I asked about obtaining a billet that could be made into a barrel for a shotgun, relatively low pressure compared to a rifle. They said, they would not advise doing that. There is a company, Caspian, that is milling 1911 slides from damasteel, but not barrels.

Also damasteel can not be browned or blackened the way that true damascus steel can. They do have a process using extreme cold that results in some wonderful colorings.

Regards,

Pete

12 September 2003, 23:16

mehulkamdar

Pete,

I don't have your technical knowledge and my correspondence with Damasteel was very brief. I remember them (Per Billgren) telling me that some blackpowder rifle barrels had been made from their steels and also that he was trying to market newer versions of their steels to the Ferlach Genossenschaft (hope that I spelled that right!) for making components for various gun types.

It would be beautiful if they could do something because their steels do look splendid!

24 September 2003, 11:30

brayhaven

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Quail Wing:
[QB][QUOTE]Originally posted by Inyati:
Many of the older damascus shotguns are still shootable. It does require a good going over by a competent gunsmith. It also means using black powder loads or speciality low pressure (NOT LOW BRASS)loads using modern components. The acceptable upper limit is for pressures is usually considered to be 6,000 psi.

Good damascus barrels are as strong asfluid" steel barrels of the time and probably today as well. This is, if they were properly maintained. I saw a test of a set of very pitted & corroded (utside & in) Parker barrels they tried to blow up with a pressure test. One barrel finally let go at upper 40K and one near 50K PSI. I still only use black powder in my 20 ga damascus Belgian Hammer double. I use the berdan primed brass cases and really enjoy shooting it. I would say they are probably good for half again that pressure figure (6K)safely. Still they need a good inspection. They can be re-proofed to nitro but it's expensive.