I have an opportunity to pick up a used (decent condition, blueing is almost 100%, few nicks and scrapes in the wood, very clean) Model 1200 in 16 ga w/modified barrel. Serial # 114672. I know nothing of Winchester shotguns. Only reason I'm interested is I'm a 16 ga fan. Does this sound like a decent price? I assume I can't shoot steel loads in it. Anything I need to look for on 1200's? I'll be shooting it this weekend on the trap range.

Well Toobroke, you didn't quote a price. But if it is a 16 ga, they were only made for a very short time starting in 1964 and are getting rare. It is an old gun, but if it was taken care of it should be alright. I wouldn't try to make a trap gun out of it, it just won't hold up. Winchester made a bunch of updates at S# 382500, most guns before that haven't been updated and certain features are prone to failure, while others were better before being updated. If it is cheap, and you wanted it, the first thing to do is to push out the pins and drop the trigger group. Looking at the bottom of the slide arm bridge there will be a screw (and remember that little bugger). That is the weakest part of the gun, when that screw breaks (and it will break eventually) it lets the firing pin come out the back of the bolt and jam things up. The main thing is, just look the whole thing over for looseness and wear. They are not an expensive gun to buy or to repair so you'd probably be OK in buying it. Just don't expect it to be as fast as an 870, or handle the abuse the 870 will. I hope that kind of helps, if it didn't, let me know and I'll be happy to babble some more.

Chad

I just bought a nice Ithaca Featherlite 16 ga. It's in perfect shape with a nice blue, weighs 6.5 lbs and has a poly choke and now the barrel length is 25". It's perfect for upland game. I paid $206.00.

I would look at a Ithaca before I bought a Win. 1200 and I am trying to be nice.

Sorry, forgot the price: $150.00

If you want a beater shotgun and can knock the price down a little, take it.

But I shy away from Winchester 1200 and 1400. Can't count the number of action bars I have seen that broke the spot weld holding them to the tube. I got two or three to silver solder back in place every hunting season.

The repair is a lot stronger than the factory method, btw.

Yes, I'd say $150 is a fair price. Remember, the 1200 has an aluminum receiver and just won't hold up to heavy use like some shotguns. That said, for "normal" bird hunting, it will last for many, many years. A 16 gauge is attractive to some because of its increasing rarity, and others won't think of buying one for the same reason.

I'll disagree with Sooner a bit, however, in that the 1200 will be lighter than the 870 and therefore should be "faster" to point.

Yeah, $150 might not be too bad considering the few numbers of 16's made. If it hasn't been roughed around much it could last a long time (as a light use field gun), and who knows, with every passing year there will be fewer and fewer available. And I don't see many manufacturers resurrecting the sweet 16.

Stonecreek, no doubt they are quicker to point, that aluminum makes them light. By "fast" I was referring to the speed at which you could cycle it. An experienced shooter can cycle the 870 faster than most autos. But not me, about half the time I forget to even cycle the action and get to watch the clay pidgeon as it travels away safely.

BTW This old of a 1200 should also have the aluminum trigger group, rather than plastic. Which in my opinion is more desireable than the newer, cheaper, weaker, plastic.

Chad

Sooner, Obviously you are more knowledgeable than I regarding shotguns but I have a less favorable impression of the venerable 870 from my experiences. In all my years of shooting, including with the multiple brands used by friends and acquaintences, the only "short stroke jams" I ever saw were both 870's. A long time turkey shooting buddy claims that it happened to him once..that makes 3 occassions that I know of. From a purely practical viewpoint they are also as heavy as an anvil to carry in the bush. Also from my usage I found the action of the 1300 Winchester both slicker and faster (Gun Tests Magazine also made this claim in one of this years issues..can't recall offhand which month, but have it in a binder somewhere, or you can find it on their website). I would also rate the Mossberg 500 as an ergonomically better designed weapon that has a milspec abuse rating that the 870 never matched. I'm not bashing Remington, I also own one, BUT, whats the big attraction? Is it the old BMW "image over substance" hype or maybe I don't get it? Just curious.

Harleytwo, I am just partial to the 870 over the other brands (Ithaca is just as good). I agree with you for the most part, the 870 is heavy but thats because it has a steel receiver, where the others (Win and Moss.) are aluminum, they also have plastic trigger guards. I have worked on all kinds of shotguns, and to me, there are only a few companies, that build a pumpgun to last a lifetime. Mossberg has had such a problem with their weak trigger guard, you can no longer buy parts, you just get a new trigger group, thats not quality! And they just don't last, or hold up to massive abuse.

As to the jamming of the 870's, I haven't had a problem. Remington came out with what they call thier "flex tab kit" which is to prevent short stroke jams and loading jams, which are prevelant in combat situations. All the 870's I have ever owned have had this kit, that might be the difference. I find their express models marketed by Wal Mart, have more problems than their other models. According to my 870 field service manual (a whopping 3 pages long) they manufacture 30 police magnum models per day, and have the most testing and quality control, they make 60 Wingmaster models a day and have almost as much testing and control, while they make 120 Express models per day and have the least checks.

Winchesters are good guns but they won't ever be what the Ithaca 37 is or a Rem 870 is. But for the average shooter, they may never know the difference. I do own a 1300 and it shoots fine but it's kinda like owning a Chevy pick-up : it's too weak for the job and you always have to work on it, but parts are easy to find.
My 1300 is "slicker" than my 870, but that comes from looser tolerances, not better design.

I hope that answers some of your questions, feel free to share some more observations, I like to hear what other people are shooting and what kind of luck they are having with it.

Chad

Sooner, Thanks for the answers and information.

Anytime, Harley.