An acquaintance of mine was killed in a strange firearms accident yesterday. Details are somewhat sketchy but he was apparently riding in his Ranger down to his mailbox. Had a Contender in .35 Rem IN A CASE with him, probably in his lap. Case/contender apparently fell out of Ranger onto driveway, probably rock, and fired, hitting him in his side. He never moved and mailman found him in Ranger, dead. Contender was still in case with hole in end of case. This information is second hand, but from a very reliable source.

Sorry to hear of the loss of your friend, prayers to all his family and friends.

That is a terrible shame...

My Prayers and thoughts go out to his family.

That is a strange accident , terrible .
Sorry to hear about your friend , may
he rest in peace .

Sorry about the lost.

But thats a really strange accident.

I would really like to see the crime scene photos and measuerments.

Being retire LEO I find a lot can be told be that kind of info.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Sorry about the lost.

But thats a really strange accident.

I would really like to see the crime scene photos and measuerments.

Being retire LEO I find a lot can be told be that kind of info.

I agree, but the whole thing has been amazingly quiet around here. Funeral was held yesterday. As I said, I was only an acquaintance, so I did not attend.

Based on what I have heard, it really "sounds" like a very strange accident. If it was anything else, the angle of the bullet channel would be a pretty obvious tell. Intellectually, it is possible it was a suicide but how many suicides shoot themselves in the side with an upwardly traversing bullet path? Following the money, if any, might add to the possibilities. Murder would appear even less likely. OTOH our local PD makes Barney Fife look professional. The pay scale doesn't attract the cream of the crop.

Whatever happened, I'm pretty sure it will be case closed as an AD.

Once upon a time, around 1973, I was at a buddies house and we were going to the lake to ski.

He had a Colt 1911 Light Weight Commander in a pistol "rug", in Condition 3, hammer down on a live round in the chamber.

He had tucked the gun rug under his arm, and was fixing to wald out of the room he was in. The gun rug slipped out from under his arm and hit hammer down on a wood floor. The Pistol discharged and the bullet struck the wall behing him 4 or so inches from the floor. I was in the next room and heard the pistol fire.

We were lucky no one was hit, as others were in the house as well.

Whether the hammer was totally down or on half cock he could not remember.

I told him, "IF you would always wear your gun, like I do, that kind of "stuff" will not happen...

A Contender is a single shot?
This gentleman put a loaded weapon in a gun case?
Murphy is lurking, waiting for careless people to provide an opportunity.

Jim

Blame aside, my condolences to your friends family for a truly terrible accident.

May your friend RIP. Some handguns can discharge when dropped,most notably the 1911 and high power. Having a TC, I would say it is a very bad idea to keep one loaded when not actually shooting. I think a blow to the hammer will discharge the gun easily.

May your friend RIP.What I do not understand is that Contenders have a transfer bar..Unless some one polished the sear and had it on full cock and even then the hammer can`t hit the transfer bar with out the trigger being pulled???Strange deal for sure.

quote:

Originally posted by OLBIKER:
May your friend RIP.What I do not understand is that Contenders have a transfer bar..Unless some one polished the sear and had it on full cock and even then the hammer can`t hit the transfer bar with out the trigger being pulled???Strange deal for sure.

That's the difference between the G1 and G2/Encore series. The G1 had a great trigger, but an impact on the hammer can lead to the firing pin to strike the primer.

The G2 contender and its big bro Encore would break the hammer in such a circumstance.

Greg

quote:

Originally posted by Geeman:

quote:

Originally posted by OLBIKER:
May your friend RIP.What I do not understand is that Contenders have a transfer bar..Unless some one polished the sear and had it on full cock and even then the hammer can`t hit the transfer bar with out the trigger being pulled???Strange deal for sure.

That's the difference between the G1 and G2/Encore series. The G1 had a great trigger, but an impact on the hammer can lead to the firing pin to strike the primer.

The G2 contender and its big bro Encore would break the hammer in such a circumstance.

Greg

I did not know that.

rip for your friend

quote:

...He had a Colt 1911 Light Weight Commander in a pistol "rug", in Condition 3, hammer down on a live round in the chamber....The gun rug slipped out from under his arm and hit hammer down on a wood floor. The Pistol discharged

This is not possible with most correctly assembled M1911s. The firing pin is shorter than the distance between the hammer face and the primer - it is called an inertial firing pin. M1911s were safety tested by dropping them on the hammer, which should not allow the firing pin to hit the primer. Series 80 1911s use a trigger safety which should prevent an AD from a dropped handgun.

Regarding the OP's acquaintance - a terrible accident. But totally avoidable by not carrying a firearm with a loaded chamber in a vehicle...



.

quote:

Originally posted by arkypete:
A Contender is a single shot?
This gentleman put a loaded weapon in a gun case?
Murphy is lurking, waiting for careless people to provide an opportunity.

Jim

All the sad feelings aside, this is the umvarnished truth. Would be illegal around here to have a loaded firearm and that means chamber or magazine, in a motor vehicle.

Grizz

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Sorry about the lost.

But thats a really strange accident.

I would really like to see the crime scene photos and measuerments.

Being retire LEO I find a lot can be told be that kind of info.

Me too

"...Killed by a Contender..." ??

quote:

Originally posted by TX Nimrod:

quote:

...He had a Colt 1911 Light Weight Commander in a pistol "rug", in Condition 3, hammer down on a live round in the chamber....The gun rug slipped out from under his arm and hit hammer down on a wood floor. The Pistol discharged

This is not possible with most correctly assembled M1911s. The firing pin is shorter than the distance between the hammer face and the primer - it is called an inertial firing pin. M1911s were safety tested by dropping them on the hammer, which should not allow the firing pin to hit the primer. Series 80 1911s use a trigger safety which should prevent an AD from a dropped handgun.
.

All 1911 pins (and most other firearms with striker hit firing pins) are too short to hit a primer from an impact on a down hammer. The NRA once had an engineer determine what it would require to make a 1911 fire from dropping. He determined it would take a direct muzzle down hit from a 30 ft drop onto a concrete surface to produce sufficent inertia for the pin to set off a common primer - and the bullet would then fly straight at the concret floor.

Most, if not all simple single shot break action weapons and American double action revolvers have a hammer block design that prevents the hammer from striking the pin UNLESS the trigger is fully pressed. I don't know if the Contender is made that way but I find it hard to believe it's not. The system is fool proof, very easy and therefore cheap to manufactor.

Whatever, the man's death is sad. I hope the government will see to it that all pit bulls, SUVs and firearms that kill people are properly destroyed.

I am very sorry to hear this.

Condolences to his family and friends.

The question, though, why would he carry a loaded Contender in a bag?

Ne450 no2---Even if your line did not give your location of Texas----your "fixing" to walk out of the room would give you away. I use that all the time and in Texas it is not noticed. Leave this area and people laugh at it. In speaking of course it's "fixin"

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Ne450 no2---Even if your line did not give your location of Texas----your "fixing" to walk out of the room would give you away. I use that all the time and in Texas it is not noticed. Leave this area and people laugh at it. In speaking of course it's "fixin"

Must be a little broader than Texas. I didn't even know it wasn't universal until someone at Sinclair's told me I was from the South.

North Carolina, W-S, to be specific.

I'm a little late getting to this discussion, since I don't shoot as much as I used to. Gato, I'm sorry to hear about your friend. It reminded me of a forum member we lost about 10 years ago. His name was Rich Bartman (DeadeyeDick) and he was a main contributor in the single shot pistol forum. If I remember the details, he get out of his truck to open a gate and dropped his contender, resulting in a fatal accidental discharge.

Nashcat

Wow, sorry to hear.
G1 Contenders do not have a transfer bar. They have a hammer block bar that prevents the hammer from hitting the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled; at the loading position, I think it would be very hard to fire one from "half cock". Now, if the pistol was cocked, in the case and dropped.....

quote:

Originally posted by TX Nimrod:

quote:

...He had a Colt 1911 Light Weight Commander in a pistol "rug", in Condition 3, hammer down on a live round in the chamber....The gun rug slipped out from under his arm and hit hammer down on a wood floor. The Pistol discharged

This is not possible with most correctly assembled M1911s. The firing pin is shorter than the distance between the hammer face and the primer - it is called an inertial firing pin. M1911s were safety tested by dropping them on the hammer, which should not allow the firing pin to hit the primer. Series 80 1911s use a trigger safety which should prevent an AD from a dropped handgun.

Regarding the OP's acquaintance - a terrible accident. But totally avoidable by not carrying a firearm with a loaded chamber in a vehicle...



.

I would agree. "Theortically" it is not possible.

However, I was there, I heard the gun fire, and I knew he would always lower the hammer on a live round in the chamber when he "bagged" his 1911...

As in Science and as in Real Life, there is Theory, and there is Real Life...

Also, after this happend, next time we were out shooting, we lowered the hammer on a live round in his 1911, and banged on the back of the hammer with a block of wood... HARD...

The gun did not fire... !!!???

We were never able to explain it... Never able to duplicate it...

BUT, On THAT DAY, with the SUN and the MOON in a certain phase, and with the Rest of the Planets in the SOLAR System in a "Certain" alingment, the 1911 did fire...

Lucklly no one was hit...

With a weak firing pin spring, old 1911s will definitely fire from inertia, but the OP was talking about a Contender I think, so any analogy is moot.

THE analogy is, ANYTIME you have a round in the chamber of a firearm, it must be under SERIOUS Control.

Hammer down, or safety on, ANY gun that receives rough handling, with a round in the chamber, if something breaks, gets jarred severely, or whatever, the gun might/could fire...

Some gun designs are more suspectible to this than others, but accidents can, and will/do happen.

Ah, ok, I was looking for a mechanical connection.

Something close like this happened to me. I was hunting, carrying my Contender at my side, by the forearm, when it went off. Scared the daylights out of me and left my ear ringing about a day. I'd shot and hunted with the Contender for years, and would never cock it unless about to fire a shot.

My guess what happened is the trigger was pulled when it was not cock, which released the safety bar (the only way to reset it is to open and close the action). Later, when walking in a brushy area, the hammer caught a twig and snapped it onto a live round. That is a safety issue that was corrected on the Encore and G2.

The hammer caught a twig? All of my Contenders have very stuff mainsprings and it would take about 50 times the force of a twig to cock one. Must have been a very big twig.

It is possible to duplicate the accidental discharge with any early Contender.
Simply load the firearm, bring the hammer to full cock and then lower it by pulling the trigger with your thumb on the hammer. You may now pull the hammer back and release it and the Contender will fire with no pull of the trigger.
You must open the action to reset the trigger.
Learned this the hard way.

Slim is correct. And the most dangerous situation is load the gun, cock the hammer, with your thumb on the hammer, pull the trigger and carefully lower the hammer. The hammer will now be resting on the firing pin which will be in contact with a loaded round. Now the slightest bump on the hammer will fire it.

quote:

Originally posted by Slim:
It is possible to duplicate the accidental discharge with any early Contender.
Simply load the firearm, bring the hammer to full cock and then lower it by pulling the trigger with your thumb on the hammer. You may now pull the hammer back and release it and the Contender will fire with no pull of the trigger.
You must open the action to reset the trigger.
Learned this the hard way.

That is why I taught my children who use my contender in carbine form to automatically break the action open and reset things if the didn't take the shot.

I had a Contender ( in 35 Rem.)but never hunted with it. My takeaway is that this is a wake up call against the casual (read familiar) handling of firearms, and I am guilty of this as well!
Peter