Do you weigh your 777 charges?

21 December 2004, 10:41

I've always used the ole' BP volume method but, I was wondering......

Do you weigh your 777 ffg and fffg charges w/ a scale to be more precise or do you just use the ole' BP volume method?

How much difference is there inbetween the two methods?

Does weighing help accuracy and SD?

Thanks,

Reloader

21 December 2004, 18:56

MLKeith

I have used both methods. For hunting I usually throw several volume measurements and weigh them. When I think I have a good average weight I then weigh all the charges and put them into small 1/2oz. bottles labled with volume gr. and weight gr. I personally have not proven that the weighed charges are any more accurate than the volume measured charges. It just makes me feel better to think they all weigh the same.

21 December 2004, 20:24

derf

A friend of mine,who is new to B/P, just picked up a new adjustable measure. We filled it to the 80gr level and it weighed out to 84gr on my RCBS scale. Now I am wondering how accurate any adjustable measure is! derf

22 December 2004, 05:39

MLKeith

Quote:

A friend of mine,who is new to B/P, just picked up a new adjustable measure. We filled it to the 80gr level and it weighed out to 84gr on my RCBS scale. Now I am wondering how accurate any adjustable measure is! derf

Hey guys lets not get confused here!! Volume grain measures and weight grain measures are not supposed to be the same. This becomes considereably different with synthetic powders. If you think that the weight grain charge of a synthetic is the same as the volume measure you could actually blow up your rifle. DO NOT CONFUSE WEIGHT GRAIN WITH VOLUME GRAIN. MUZZLELOADERS SHOULD BE CHARGED WITH VOLUME MEASURED GRAIN LOADS. WEIGHT GRAIN LOADS ARE ONLY FOR COMPARISON AND SOMEONE THAT UNDERSTANDS THE DIFFERENCE.

22 December 2004, 05:58

Reloader

MLkeith,

It is perfectly safe to weigh charges for MLers. It should be a much more consistent method. I was wondering if anyone had proven it to be more consistent in the Accuracy/speed department.

Now Volumetric measuring differs from actual weights but, not terribly.

Does any one know the conversion formulas (Volume to weight) for Pyrodex? 777?

Reloader

22 December 2004, 20:34

derf

Oh, I am not confused ML, I was just curious and now know that the weights marked on a measure might not be precisely accurate. I still use them though.

derf

22 December 2004, 21:18

MLKeith

Quote:

MLkeith,

It is perfectly safe to weigh charges for MLers. It should be a much more consistent method. I was wondering if anyone had proven it to be more consistent in the Accuracy/speed department.

Now Volumetric measuring differs from actual weights but, not terribly.

Does any one know the conversion formulas (Volume to weight) for Pyrodex? 777?

Reloader

It is safe as long as you are weighing to a volume based measurement. I don't think I would rely on any formula to convert. I will measure and weigh some various powders when I get a little time and post the results and that will be for interest only and I would not use my measurements if I were you. I have Goex, Pyrodex, Clean Shot, 777 and Black Mag3. Most are ffg but some are fffg. I'm sure you are aware fffg is generally going to weigh more than ffg for the same volume measure. I just don't think it is a good idea to promote weighing powder for muzzleloaders when there are some beginners that could become confused and that is what I was driving at. I personally have not proven that weighing is more accurate or consistent although common sense tells me that it should be. I still weigh my charges for my hunting and feel better about it.

23 December 2004, 03:18

Reloader

MLkeith,

I agree w/ the method you speak of, volume first and then weigh.

From a smokeless reloading standpoint, there are several powders that really are not as weight sensitive as others (Small variances in load weights doesn't badly effect accuracy and velocity) but, some powders are very picky about weight differences.

I ask these quyestions just to see if anyone has found 777 or Pyrodex to be very weight sensitive.

I have mostly been using a smokeless MLer the last couple of years but, I've been thinking of trying some ffg and fffg 777 out in a couple of my other Mlers as I've only tried 777 in the pellet form. I've always used pyrodex in those Mlers but, I'm thinking of making the switch to the granulated 777 because of the ease of clean-up.

Good Luck and Merry Christmas!

Reloader

23 December 2004, 05:49

scot

From a safety standpoint it won't make any difference. From an accuracy point of view it is very ulikely to make a difference. Do the experiment and compare carefully weighed charges to volume measured ones. I doubt you will see any difference, I never have. You wil see a greater variation in accuracy due to seating pressure than a couple of grains of powder.

BP and substitutes are normally measured by volume. You are using so much of it that a minor variation will be a less significant error than if you were dealing with a smokeless charge that might be one third the weight.

23 December 2004, 07:03

MLKeith

Quote:

MLkeith,

I agree w/ the method you speak of, volume first and then weigh.

From a smokeless reloading standpoint, there are several powders that really are not as weight sensitive as others (Small variances in load weights doesn't badly effect accuracy and velocity) but, some powders are very picky about weight differences.

I ask these quyestions just to see if anyone has found 777 or Pyrodex to be very weight sensitive.

I have mostly been using a smokeless MLer the last couple of years but, I've been thinking of trying some ffg and fffg 777 out in a couple of my other Mlers as I've only tried 777 in the pellet form. I've always used pyrodex in those Mlers but, I'm thinking of making the switch to the granulated 777 because of the ease of clean-up.

Good Luck and Merry Christmas!

Reloader

I am a smokeless reloader also and if you want cleaner shooting with your muzzleloader find some Black Mag3 powder. This stuff only makes a light gray powder in the barrel and can be shot multiple times without a swab between shots (even in a T/C rifle with tight bore). I love the stuff. I have some smokeless loads for my 40-65 that actually make more fouling than the Black Mag3 does.

24 December 2004, 14:12

Bucktail

I don't weigh my 777, but based on volumetric measuerment, point of aim doesn't change much from 70g to 150g (max my rifle is rated for)using MMP 50/40 sabots and 200grain hornady XTP's. Switching to 180 grain Sierra's didn't have much effect either. I got about a 6 inch group with all of the variables that I put into it.

26 December 2004, 17:51

Swede44mag

Charging Pyrodex or Black Powder is unsafe unless you use a charger made for black powder or substitute black powder due to static electricity that can be create. If you practice using a volume measure and striking the powder off consistently and not trying to pack the powder you can get very accurate charges. If I was loading cartridges I would consider weighing the powder and using an appropriate charger to speed up the process.

But I donï¿½t think that it is necessary for a front loading muzzle loader. IMHO

04 January 2005, 20:11

Underclocked

Volumetric measures aren't consistent at all. The TC measures seem best, in my experience, as being truly calibrated to black powder volume. Try a couple of different brands using the same technique for each - then weigh the resulting charges.

A conversion that generally holds true (but should always be verified) for FFg Triple Seven ONLY is weighed times 1.25 =~ volumetric. For example, 80 grains by measured weight of FFg Triple Seven ONLY would approximatelly equal 100 grains of the same powder in a volumetric measure.

For each container of powder, you should make a determination of that ratio if you are interested in knowing what it might be. The best method is as MLKeith has outlined, weigh a few thrown charges and then measure your succeeding charges to that averaged weight.

And, yes, I think it does make an accuracy difference. Using pre-weighed charges stored in sealed vials has almost always resulted in improved accuracy. Can't say it is worth the effort for 100 yard hunting loads though - the difference isn't that remarkable.