ALLIANT MZ BLACK

21 December 2015, 02:23

DOPPELGANGSTER

ALLIANT MZ BLACK

Anyone using this stuff in a large bore (12GA or bigger) rifle or shotgun?

The MSDS reads like doublespeak - it's toxic as hell but it won't hurt ya. Opinions on breathing the smoke?

Thanks

21 December 2015, 02:30

BenKK

I use it. CVA .54" Mountain Rifle.

21 December 2015, 02:40

DOPPELGANGSTER

quote:
Originally posted by BenKK:
I use it. CVA .54" Mountain Rifle.

Are you compressing it as recommended? What size load? How smokey is it?

21 December 2015, 03:31

BenKK

I'm new to muzzleloaders, and only have experience with Alliant Black MZ. Can't get the real stuff where I live. Well, I'm working on that. Anyway, I like it. Don't know about compressing it. Just tap the ball down and make sure it can't go any further. I usually shoot 100 grains but a couple of times have shot 60 or 80. Have killed one pig, two buffalo, two scrub bulls and seven donkeys with it. Started on my muzzleloader journey about eight months ago.

21 December 2015, 03:33

BenKK

It makes a good cloud of smoke. I certainly lose sight of my prey for a few moments.

21 December 2015, 09:26

georgeld

Ben:
I've been told once you get it seated, bounce the rod off the ball about 5-10" and that's just about the right amount of compaction. Some of the old timers here will no doubt chime in and either agree or disagree, I don't know my self other than this is what I've been told.

Good hunting to you, sent a pm last night too.
George

21 December 2015, 22:24

DOPPELGANGSTER

I've never messed with BP sub and don't want to store BP in my location. Mostly concerned about toxicity. Thanks for the input guys.

04 January 2016, 17:05

Newtire

Have test fired it side by side in a .50 round ball gun and a .58 Zouave along with some 777 2f granulation.

Can't comment on toxicity but the chrono said it was lagging behind in the lighter loadings in the .50 roundball loadings until I got up to 80 grain level. It seems to come up to 777 velocity levels above 80 grains in the .50 roundball and worked about the same with heavy weight Minie balls in the .58 cal Zouave. I used it with some lighter weight Lyman "SWC" shaped Minies and had lower velocities at the 60 grain charge weight but about the same at 80 grain.

The 777 definitely has more recoil.

My guess is it works better with more resistance. I did no such thing as bounce the ramrod, just seated it against the powder.

I was interested in it's use in shotguns as I had'nt tried it in my shotguns yet.

They had a heckuva sale on that stuff here at Sportsmanswarehouse so hoping I can use it in scatterguns. Smoke=yes but no stink like black or pyrodex.

That's all I have. Hope it's useful.

06 January 2016, 06:06

DOPPELGANGSTER

quote:
Originally posted by Newtire:
Have test fired it side by side in a .50 round ball gun and a .58 Zouave along with some 777 2f granulation.

Can't comment on toxicity but the chrono said it was lagging behind in the lighter loadings in the .50 roundball loadings until I got up to 80 grain level. It seems to come up to 777 velocity levels above 80 grains in the .50 roundball and worked about the same with heavy weight Minie balls in the .58 cal Zouave. I used it with some lighter weight Lyman "SWC" shaped Minies and had lower velocities at the 60 grain charge weight but about the same at 80 grain.

The 777 definitely has more recoil.

My guess is it works better with more resistance. I did no such thing as bounce the ramrod, just seated it against the powder.

I was interested in it's use in shotguns as I had'nt tried it in my shotguns yet.

They had a heckuva sale on that stuff here at Sportsmanswarehouse so hoping I can use it in scatterguns. Smoke=yes but no stink like black or pyrodex.

That's all I have. Hope it's useful.

Very useful - Thanks!

31 January 2016, 00:56

Underclocked

Anyone seen the Alliant MZ BLUE yet?

05 March 2016, 06:19

Atkinson

My old Lyman Plains game 54 cal. has been hanging on the wall now for about 40 years. I hunted dee and elk with it back then for a year or two and a couple of times for deer in about 1980 or 81...

Been thinking its time to drag it out again as it just easier to draw a good elk hunt with a muzzle loader these days..

I shot ffg and FFFg, I need a refresher course and updates on ML..Where is the best source of information on modern loading.

12 March 2016, 04:32

lanenebraska

Alliant MZ Black is just Re-packaged American Pioneer Powder.

APP

Best accuracy comes from really compressing it.
Use the FFF if u can find it.
After u open the container, put some desiccant packs in it and reseal the lid good. it'll keep a whole lot longer.
No need to swab between shots.
This stuff is safe on gun steel, but reacts/corrodes copper and brass in no time.

You're welcome

14 March 2016, 02:22

Mark

quote:
Originally posted by lanenebraska:
Alliant MZ Black is just Re-packaged American Pioneer Powder.

APP

Best accuracy comes from really compressing it.
Use the FFF if u can find it.
After u open the container, put some desiccant packs in it and reseal the lid good. it'll keep a whole lot longer.
No need to swab between shots.
This stuff is safe on gun steel, but reacts/corrodes copper and brass in no time.

You're welcome

Thanks Lane and welcome to the forums!

09 April 2016, 01:37

kjjm4

quote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
My old Lyman Plains game 54 cal. has been hanging on the wall now for about 40 years. I hunted dee and elk with it back then for a year or two and a couple of times for deer in about 1980 or 81...

Been thinking its time to drag it out again as it just easier to draw a good elk hunt with a muzzle loader these days..

I shot ffg and FFFg, I need a refresher course and updates on ML..Where is the best source of information on modern loading.

IMO, You don't need any updates. Your Lyman is a great rifle and will do the job just fine. Load it up with ~80 grains of FFFg or 100 of FFg, ram down a patched round ball, and go hunting. I much prefer traditional muzzleloaders and real black powder. You're not at that great a disadvantage over a modern inline rifle, as long as you practice shooting your gun.

11 April 2016, 19:04

Newtire

Used some more MZ Black last week in a .45 underhammer "offhand" with a .24" barrel.

It took 70 gr. to reach 1700 fps as compared to 1850 fps using only 55 gr. of 777 3f (all measured by volume).

Going to try it out later this week in a Pedersoli 12 gauge. Not sure how to check velocity on shotgun loads without shooting my chrono.??

I never saw any other granulation on the Black MZ but for big & chunky but it sure is uniform & lights off real easy.

I have a .50 1-30 twist Mowrey with a wicked little buttplate that theoretically should shoot Conicals great but that little buttplate has me worried. I think the MZ ought to be the ideal powder for that thing with Conicals.
I'll put on a sissy pad this week and go over to Emmett and try it out with some Great Plains I have lying around, when I go to test out the 12 gauge.

02 August 2016, 13:58

BenKK

I am brand-new to flintlocks. My lady bought me a .54" Pedersoli Frontier flintlock as an engagement present. It works beautifully with Alliant Black MZ. I prime with 4fg. I've only fired it ten times (friends have also had a few shots). My own ninth shot killed a massive Arnhemland boar late Saturday afternoon. It works in flintlocks.

08 September 2016, 19:49

Bill/Oregon

Ben, I had no idea this stuff works with flinters. Congratulations on the Arnhemland boar!

09 September 2016, 07:38

Doubless

If this is re-packaged AP, I would warn those using conicals to NOT lubricate the projectiles. I shot some AP 2F out of one of my Whites about ten years ago and it fouled that barrel worse than anything else I had ever shot. I later asked a rep at a gun show about what I had experienced and he told me very specifically to NOT lube the bullets, that it would make an incredible mess.

I haven't tried it since. Still have an old can of it that is probably a single brick, but I DO remember there being a dessicant pillow in the can.

Posted fwiw...

31 October 2016, 15:15

Newtire

Not sure what kind of lube you are using but 40% olive oil to 60% beeswax mix will not create any sort of mess. For sure, no lube at all will cause leading. Let me know that rep's name would you? He needs to be educated. Money talks, B. S. walks. Would put $ on that.

31 October 2016, 15:38

Newtire

The MZ Black worked great in my 12 gauge N.R. Davis original percussion double. I used it on doves this year with equal volume 1-1/8 oz. #7 shot and same measure of MZ Black. Used just a single .125" nitro-card between powder and shot as per V.M. Star's prescription and a split nitro card on top of the shot. A plastic shot cup gives a little denser patterns but not by much so left it out after the first shot. Lit it off with #10 Remington caps. I always fire off a blank load of just powder and a wad first to burn off any residual moisture and never ever have any mis-fires. No stringy plastic mess using the shot cup like I had heard. Cut off the cushion section of the wad and just use the cup- might cause same problem as an air gap I'm thinking?. Anyways, this Black MZ is turning out to be some pretty good stuff for my purposes so far!

04 March 2017, 04:54

Atkinson

Kjjm4,
That is exactly what I have decided over the last couple of weeks, I dragged out my old 54 and bought two 58s, gonna shoot ball and patch with both, As I see it, that's what its all about.

19 March 2017, 00:00

Atkinson

After some more digging and looking around the shop, I found a 24 inch barrel, its a 54 barrel I cut off back then..Its a Lyman marked Great Plains "Rifle" and rifle stands for round ball..

The new barrel I purchased to replace it as I recall is a bullet barrel, Its 28" 1x32 twist as I recall and marked Lyman Great Plains "Hunter", so its Lymans bullet barrel. I recall at the time I wanted both options. so guess Im good for both ball or bullet, with the 54.