Indianapolis Police have secretly funneled firearm data to ATF for more than 50 years
Indy Police ballistically test every recovered firearm even those not used in crimes.

Lee Williams
3 hr ago

by Lee Williams

The Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department has quietly tested every single recovered firearm — even those not used in the commission of crimes — without probable cause or a search warrant for as long as anyone at the department can recall, according to a story published recently by WISHTV.com.

Once the firearms were tested at the police department’s crime lab, the data was then sent to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, which used it to create an illegal gun registry.

Police admit they never obtained search warrants to test the firearms. The testing was done as a matter of policy, whether the guns were used in crimes, held for safekeeping or recovered through other means.

“I-Team 8 is told the Indianapolis department is carrying out this practice without a search warrant or probable cause, making this decades-old practice a possible violation of federal rules and the Fourth Amendment,” the news story states.

Most gun owners who had firearms recovered by IMPD are likely unaware their weapons were tested or that ATF now has their ballistic data as part of a national gun registry.

IMPD Assistant Police Chief Chris Bailey told reporters the practice started decades ago, and he confirmed that officers did not have probable cause or search warrants to conduct the tests.

“Not that we know of. We went back and checked how long this has been going on. A former employee who came on in 1973, and it was happening then in the 1970s, and she worked another 30 years here and retired a couple years ago,” Bailey told WISHTV.com. He added there are currently more than 21,000 firearms in IMPD’s property room.

Bailey said the department’s attorneys are currently examining the testing policy, and that they would make changes if it was determined it violated the U.S. Constitution or other federal rules.

No one at IMPD or the ATF’s Indianapolis Field Office returned calls seeking comment for this story.

WISHTV.com investigative reporter Richard Essex broke the story about Indianapolis Police illegally testing firearms and sending data to the ATF. (Screenshot courtesy WISHTV.com).
No action likely

Indianapolis-based investigative reporter Richard Essex broke the gun-testing story for WISHTV.com.

Unlike most journalists, Essex is a gun owner, who told the Second Amendment Foundation he recently purchased a Smith & Wesson Model 29, “because I’ve always wanted one.”

At one point during his video story, an ATF agent melts down on camera under questioning by Essex.

“It’s the most compelling soundbite I’ve had in over 15 years,” Essex said. “They’re building a national database but they won’t admit it.”

Essex said his story produced eight pages of comments on an Indiana gun owner’s forum. The commenters complained about the unconstitutionality of the testing, ATF’s illegal gun registry and the incredibly lengthy and expensive process needed to get a firearm returned by IMPD.

“For legal gun owners, this story has been a sore subject for many, many years,” Essex told SAF. “It doesn’t take long to find someone who has lost a treasured firearm and waited years to get it back.”

The IMPD, Essex said, claimed they are going to change their policy. “But it’s been over a month, and I haven’t heard a thing,” he said. “I doubt they’ll make any changes. They’ll wait for someone to challenge this.”

Greg Burge is a retired IMPD police officer who owns Beech Grove Firearms. Burge told SAF that law enforcement is somewhat “confusing” in Marion County, Indiana.

“IMPD is the primary law enforcement agency in the entire county. They’re the biggest and have been doing whatever they want with firearms for years,” Burge said Monday. “They make it as difficult and cumbersome as possible to get firearms back. We’re not talking about a bank robber who drops his gun while running across a parking lot or a gun found at a murder scene. Basically, any type of incident, like if your car is towed for unpaid parking tickets and your gun was in the console.”

Burge described a typical scenario of how someone’s firearm can end up in IMPD’s property room.

“Let’s say you’re in a crash and knocked out. There’s a gun in your console. The officer can’t send the gun on the gurney with you to the hospital, so they take your gun, your wallet and your cellphone and put it in a bag marked ‘safe’ for safekeeping. Once you’re released from the hospital, you can get your cell and your wallet, but not your gun. You’ll be told IMPD has to ‘process’ it. Keep in mind they would need a search warrant to search your cellphone. Once the gun is tested, ATF now has a ‘fingerprint’ of your gun. Then, ATF will conduct a trace of your firearm and they’ll get the 4473. Six months later, IMPD will tell you that you need to provide proof of ownership, so you’ll need to go to the gun store where you bought it. It can take us several days to dig out the paper receipt. Now, IMPD has three things that identify you as the owner of the firearm, but you still can’t get your gun. You need to make an appointment with the department, get fingerprinted and they’ll run a background check. If you’re lucky, in a year or two they will hand your firearm back,” Burge said.

Burge said he asked department officials numerous times to justify the process.

“If a laptop comes in, we can’t just turn it on without a search warrant. What gives them the right to ‘turn on’ a firearm?” he asked. “The average handgun people carry costs around $500. When they get the runaround from the city and go talk to an attorney for help — and attorneys don’t work for free — they’ll find out it could cost them around $10,000 to get back a $500 handgun. Most don’t. We’re talking about thousands of people who have been victimized.”

"Recovered" = taken from its owner under color of authority.

A euphemism of convenience...

Is there a way to tell if a cell phone has been searched?

quote:

Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:
Is there a way to tell if a cell phone has been searched?

I doubt it.

But, regardless, do not have any data in the phone that you do not wish other to get.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:
Is there a way to tell if a cell phone has been searched?

I doubt it.

But, regardless, do not have any data in the phone that you do not wish other to get.

It is called the 4th Amendment anchored to the English Common Law concept of a right to privacy. Something you may not have in your part of the world.

Now, a dead person does not have an expectation of privacy.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:
Is there a way to tell if a cell phone has been searched?

I doubt it.

But, regardless, do not have any data in the phone that you do not wish other to get.

It is called the 4th Amendment anchored to the English Common Law concept of a right to privacy. Something you may not have in your part of the world.

Bullshit!

And keep on dreaming.

Fuckbook and Twitter are doing the government services in collecting everything about you lot!

I have signed off on Search Warrants for Google, so no to your premise.

I think this is pretty common among Police Departments.
Certainly doesn't surprise me.

Police took my own Grandmother's pistol, a Colt Match Target Woodsman, from her and when her attorney finally got it back months later, it was dirty. Clearly it had been fired.
They first denied even having it until she lawyered up.

Now, whether they used it for a ballistics database or one of them simply decided to take it home to keep is unknown...

The RCMP did this in High River, Alberta; confiscated firearms during a flood. I once caught an RCMP member with a rifle I knew to have been confiscated, for sale on his gun show table. When I mentioned to him that I recognized the rifle, he took it off the table and removed it from the venue. I don't have a lot of faith in law enforcement. It seems they are there to serve us until they decide they aren't. Regards, Bill.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:
Is there a way to tell if a cell phone has been searched?

I doubt it.

But, regardless, do not have any data in the phone that you do not wish other to get.

You cannot believe the amount of information your phone retains. And, there's nothing you can do about it. There's no such thing as deleting information from your phone. A forensic phone dump expert can take your phone and tell all of us every single location you traveled to with accuracy measured within a few feet if there are enough cell towers to ping in the areas you travel. All your text messages stay in your phone too. And your internet history.

Why would a police department need a warrant to test-fire a confiscated weapon?

quote:

Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:
Is there a way to tell if a cell phone has been searched?

Yep, the meta data.

Illegal, warrantless, egregious violations of our 4th happen all the time. Ask me how I know...

Thank God for good lawyers, and good deputy sherrifs who tell the truth.

As opposed to dirty, rotten, piece of shit deputies who blatantly lie during sworn video depositions.



I would just assume the phone was searched, because I don't trust a cop I don't know.


.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
Why would a police department need a warrant to test-fire a confiscated weapon?

Because just like accessing your phone data, taking your fingerprints, etc... if you did not commit any crime it is not their information to have and keep.

quote:

Originally posted by Thomas "Ty" Beaham:

quote:

Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:
Is there a way to tell if a cell phone has been searched?

Yep, the meta data.

Illegal, warrantless, egregious violations of our 4th happen all the time. Ask me how I know...

Thank God for good lawyers, and good deputy sherrifs who tell the truth.

As opposed to dirty, rotten, piece of shit deputies who blatantly lie during sworn video depositions.



I would just assume the phone was searched, because I don't trust a cop I don't know.


.

IMO they would search it if they damn well wanted to; warrant or no warrant. Not to be trusted.

Does all of that meta data transfer to a new phone?

Seems like a burner phone from Trac Fone might be a good idea, tho I have nothing to hide.

The Supreme Court has just ruled last 2 years that such data requires a warrant for the STATE to access if no other exceptions to the Warrant requirement apply in the fact pattern.

Again, a dead person does not have a right to privacy.
Man example we have been doing, is taking a phone from a suspected drug overdose death, searching the messages for drug buys, then using that phone to set up a drug buy w the trafficker.

Bam! We just got a controlled buy on camera.

Now, if an internet provider sale your data, and you click on the all collies thing to get to view the content that is not a 4th Amendment issue as a the State is not involved.