Would it feed the spin or not?

Would it cause supporters to re-think, or double down?

Would it help healing, or not?

And so forth.

Flying Monkeys.

The term “flying monkeys” was inspired by the enchanted flying monkeys in The Wizard of Oz, who was sent to do the dirty work for the Wicked Witch of the West. The phrase has become used to describe people who do the bidding of a narcissist.

Urban Dictionary:

Flying Monkey
A rabid right-wing reactionary, generally characterized by blind allegiance to the Republican party line, and consistant repetition of talking points from Fox News or Conservative radio hosts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...onkeys#In_psychology

In psychology
The term flying monkey has been used in psychology to refer to enablers of an abusive person, such as a narcissist or a sociopath. It particularly indicates someone who does work on the behalf of the abuser, as the winged monkeys do for the witch in the original book.[4]

The abuser will typically use family, friends, or coworkers who are loyal and/or subservient to them as flying monkeys to subvert or attack their intended targets. The flying monkey may act as a courier of information between parties, or as someone who pleads the case on behalf of the abuser. The flying monkeys themselves might buy into the abuser's false personality, might be too afraid of the abuser to stand up to them, or may themselves suffer from a mental disorder that the abuser exploits, such as having narcissistic or sociopathic tendencies themselves.[5]

Supporters would double down. Trials would be rigged. Witnesses would be committing perjury. Evidence would be manufactured. Regards, Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
Supporters would double down. Trials would be rigged. Witnesses would be committing perjury. Evidence would be manufactured. Regards, Bill

It would save him a lot of campaign money.

OKAY

Conservatives are flipping the script now, bigly. Fox is in a frenzy with their narratives.

The reasons I think it all should be televised is because it's the biggest freak show ever. People aren't influenced nowadays by anything less.

Let's Rumble.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...b4418324815aff&ei=18

Conservatives: Punishing Coup Leaders Is Authoritarian
Opinion by Eric Levitz • 2h ago

It is anyone’s guess.

American being so incredibly stupid politically, anything can happen!

They are FREE yiu know.

To be STUPID!

Just as they do when voting!

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
Supporters would double down. Trials would be rigged. Witnesses would be committing perjury. Evidence would be manufactured. Regards, Bill

Interesting.

So you have already lost the confidence in the system - rule of law especially.

I wonder about that.

Re the Rule of Law, assuming it still is a working system per the Founders Dream, here's what is at stake:

"Why Bother?"

That's the conclusion - the epilogue - the footnote to the Founder's Dream, which will be said and believed by either side at the end of the Trump era.

The Right will say and believe it if Trump is convicted. They are saying it now, so the double-down will be with emphasis there.

The Left will say and believe it if Trump wins - Trumpism wins. If he wins - hello fascism.

================================================

The way I see it is this is the conundrum that the Right has put the country in, by enabling Trump and Trumpism. Damned if you do - damned if you don't.

That's why I think the trials should be televised. All out. Might was well enjoy the slippery slope.

I think it should be televised like a wrestling match, with commentators on both sides, analysis round by round, blow by blow, until most people are so nauseated with it all that the drug stores will run out of anti-nausea meds.

Courts in Florida, Georgia, NY and DC. All that will need to be coordinated, along with all the TV crews, commentators. What a spectacle for the world!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
OKAY

Conservatives are flipping the script now, bigly. Fox is in a frenzy with their narratives.

The reasons I think it all should be televised is because it's the biggest freak show ever. People aren't influenced nowadays by anything less.

Let's Rumble.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...b4418324815aff&ei=18

Conservatives: Punishing Coup Leaders Is Authoritarian
Opinion by Eric Levitz • 2h ago

Fox News where they refuse to even read the indictment.

Being televised would make no difference to his supporters. If he got on the stand and admitted he did everything he is charged with, his supporters would just say he was tortured into a confession. Remember his previous statements about grabbing pussies and being able to commit a crime at high noon in Times Square with no adverse consequences??

Justice is serious business. I do not want to see a televised trial. Trump would try to turn it into a circus.

The DOJ has performed a very professional and thorough investigation, that has resulted in at least one indictment to date.

We wouldn't televise the trial if Joe Blow had been indicted. Why give Trump a platform to weep, and whine, and play the victim?

For all the MAGA Morons that continue to deny reality; READ THE INDICTMENT......and then tell us what parts aren't true. The evidence has been provided by Trump himself and the Republicans in his inner circle. I guess you can claim they lied, but where does that get you. Trump made a fool of you. We don't need you to admit it. It's obvious.

I agree with you Kensco.

I'm just trying out the idea to see what feedback it generates.

I think it's already a circus and a platform for him to weep, whine, play the victim, lie some more, incite some more, and so forth.

It is going to be televised - indirectly - by Fox with their spin, by other media with their spin.

I certainly don't support any degradation of what the DOJ and other serious law enforcement and courts are doing.

I just want it all, the magnitude of what they have wrought on the nation, in their face every day, all day, and in their dreams, and their children's dreams, and their dog's dreams.

Our justice system is a farce. Takes forever to get anything done. Years go by before trials take place. Appeals appeals appeals. Folks sue over the most trivial matters. Slip and fall on a sidewalk-sue. Get fired from job cause you’re lazy-sue. Obnoxious is not a strong enough word. Meanwhile the rich and famous have a whole other justice system for themselves. Televise it? Certainly would be a hit. Just ask Johnny Depp. Modern folks are zombies wasting their lives in a synthetic digital purgatory. Hunt fish and trap. Keep yer powder dry.

There's truth in what you say, tomahawker. Your truth is as real, for you, as anyone else's is for them.

Trump is rich and famous - agreed?

He's a bit less rich now, presumably due to lawyer fees - those he doesn't renege on, depending on the replenishments from his cult.

He's benefitted from more free press than anyone in history so far, with lots more to come. He has controlled the narratives, embellished and promulgated by Fox, etc. The other media-counter-narratives, mostly reality, seems like a whimper sometimes in comparison.

It's gonna continue and accelerate anyway. I'm wondering if televising it will stymie/thwart some of the very harmful spin, such as Fox's.

For a brief while I thought Fox would change their tune, when they fired Carlson.

But noooo. That's ain't gonna happen. The frenzy they are in right now is astonishing.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
Supporters would double down. Trials would be rigged. Witnesses would be committing perjury. Evidence would be manufactured. Regards, Bill

Interesting.

So you have already lost the confidence in the system - rule of law especially.

I wonder about that.

Re the Rule of Law, assuming it still is a working system per the Founders Dream, here's what is at stake:

"Why Bother?"

That's the conclusion - the epilogue - the footnote to the Founder's Dream, which will be said and believed by either side at the end of the Trump era.

The Right will say and believe it if Trump is convicted. They are saying it now, so the double-down will be with emphasis there.

The Left will say and believe it if Trump wins - Trumpism wins. If he wins - hello fascism.

================================================

The way I see it is this is the conundrum that the Right has put the country in, by enabling Trump and Trumpism. Damned if you do - damned if you don't.

That's why I think the trials should be televised. All out. Might was well enjoy the slippery slope.

I think it should be televised like a wrestling match, with commentators on both sides, analysis round by round, blow by blow, until most people are so nauseated with it all that the drug stores will run out of anti-nausea meds.

Courts in Florida, Georgia, NY and DC. All that will need to be coordinated, along with all the TV crews, commentators. What a spectacle for the world!!!

I should have been a little more clear. I meant to say, the supporters would double down. Their claims would be etc.
Today, in the age of the internet, nothing is real and everything is real. It takes no effort to find examples of falsehoods repeated as gospel, or reported facts dismissed as "fake news". This is so all across the political spectrum and both sides have to be aware. Fake photographic "evidence" is more prevalent than ever before; to the point that I distrust anything I see unless it can be verified.
I believe that Trump did more than anyone to break our Democracy; he was assisted in this by Democrats who opened the door for him ( by running Hillary Clinton), and by the ever-widening rift between left and right.
I can't explain why Trump has attracted the cult following he has, but it is there and it would take more than a televised trial to sway the faithful. If I'm honest, I have had little faith in the "system" for fifty years. If the system worked society would not seem so broken today. Regards, Bill.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
Supporters would double down. Trials would be rigged. Witnesses would be committing perjury. Evidence would be manufactured. Regards, Bill

Interesting.

So you have already lost the confidence in the system - rule of law especially.

I wonder about that.

Re the Rule of Law, assuming it still is a working system per the Founders Dream, here's what is at stake:

"Why Bother?"

That's the conclusion - the epilogue - the footnote to the Founder's Dream, which will be said and believed by either side at the end of the Trump era.

The Right will say and believe it if Trump is convicted. They are saying it now, so the double-down will be with emphasis there.

The Left will say and believe it if Trump wins - Trumpism wins. If he wins - hello fascism.

================================================

The way I see it is this is the conundrum that the Right has put the country in, by enabling Trump and Trumpism. Damned if you do - damned if you don't.

That's why I think the trials should be televised. All out. Might was well enjoy the slippery slope.

I think it should be televised like a wrestling match, with commentators on both sides, analysis round by round, blow by blow, until most people are so nauseated with it all that the drug stores will run out of anti-nausea meds.

Courts in Florida, Georgia, NY and DC. All that will need to be coordinated, along with all the TV crews, commentators. What a spectacle for the world!!!

THE SYSTEM?

The bloody system is BROKE!

CORRUPT TO THE CORE!

How do you think you got a choice betwBid4n and Trump!

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
I should have been a little more clear. I meant to say, the supporters would double down. Their claims would be etc.

Today, in the age of the internet, nothing is real and everything is real. It takes no effort to find examples of falsehoods repeated as gospel, or reported facts dismissed as "fake news". This is so all across the political spectrum and both sides have to be aware. Fake photographic "evidence" is more prevalent than ever before; to the point that I distrust anything I see unless it can be verified.

I believe that Trump did more than anyone to break our Democracy; he was assisted in this by Democrats who opened the door for him ( by running Hillary Clinton), and by the ever-widening rift between left and right.

I can't explain why Trump has attracted the cult following he has, but it is there and it would take more than a televised trial to sway the faithful.

If I'm honest, I have had little faith in the "system" for fifty years. If the system worked society would not seem so broken today. Regards, Bill.

I had an opportunity to "lose the faith" in the system back when I got a divorce and faced the liberal feminist lesbian judge and the "system" she abused the power of. My first cousin "lost the faith", if he ever had it to start with, when his son died of an accident and the subsequent manipulation of the judicial system by those responsible and influential. He's been bitter ever since.

I refuse to be bitter, so far.

To break down your comments, bit by bit:

Sure, his supporters would double/triple down. I just want the fall to be hard and hurt, for a long time. Reciprocally, if he wins the fall for some of us will really hurt for a long time. Even if he doesn't technically win, but has a soft landing, it will still hurt the nation.

I wish I had and could share a way to decipher the "Signal from the Noise", but you said it with your verified comment.

I read a saying recently, which I can't quote exactly because I can't find it again. "The tallest mountain is the one that I can see with my own eyes". I think I understand the Right's thinking with that quote. It's certainly the way my far-right cousin thinks. He trusts practically nothing unless he can verify it with experience, observation (passing his bias tests of course). That way of being in the world, worldview, doesn't work well, IMO, and it contributes to our collective problems. "Trust" in science, for example. We can't verify what scientists can and say. There is a difference in not trusting science, and deeming it a lie. The Right has no trouble spanning the gap.

Blaming Hillary is acknowledging the emotional reactionary impulses of the Right fed and fomented with lies and propaganda, from Fox, for example. It wasn't Hillary's fault, nor the left's that Trump devolved. The Right won't own it, and therein is the problem.

I have no expectation that anything will sway the Trump faithful. That's where it's like a cult. Usually no amount of rational interference works. That's why they have a word for it - "deprograming". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...at%20belief%20system. "Deprogramming aims to assist a person who holds a controversial or restrictive belief system in changing those beliefs and severing connections to the associated group (religious, political, economic, or social) which created and controls that belief system." It's programing in reverse. What's the chance of that happening, except the hard way?

The root of all disappointment is expectation. The epitome of insanity is doing something over and over, expecting different outcomes.

We need a different outcome than what the trajectory suggests, looking at the past. So we need to try something new, nonviolent, of course, while we still have th tools; the rule of law.

Your outcome is why it should be televised.

While I agree some of his supporters might continue to travel down the road of self delusion, most would see Trump and his behavior, and be able to see if the system is not misbehaving, and go from there.

Everyone knows that there are miscarriages of justice.

They usually occur when the system becomes too certain of itself, or facts are misrepresented.

Will the trial be a TV low comedy, or would it be the final implosion of a group? I suppose both are possible.

I tended to buy into the statements from the president at first because I did not see the opposition as being either truthful or right. I decided Trump was bad once his acts that were straight out of him became intolerable- the lying about the election and his tapes with him trying to change results. His lack of suppression of the riots on 1/6. The keeping of classified documents and their misuse afterwards. And now, the evidence that he indeed knew that the loss of the election was factual and that he did not have any evidence to the contrary and knew so.

I still don't trust the mainstream media, and yes, that includes Fox. All involved have shown they will shade the truth for an agenda.

So, I think folks like me will be even more disgusted by the airing of his misdeeds. I know that a fairly substantial number of his still supporters are just not buying in to that they could not find anything on HRC or Biden, but they can find it on Trump. I say to them, that if you truly think HRC or Biden belong behind bars, then you had better let Trump go as well, because he's claiming the right to do what he wants because he's a political power.

Putting it out there and giving him the punishment also puts other politicians on notice that they can be held accountable as well.

That's not a bad thing.

Wow, Doc, finally you post something, your views, that I can't disagree with.

When the whole nation is sufficiently disgusted with Trump and all the associated shit he produces, then maybe things will get better.

Liberals should not rejoice, but take note, and behave accordingly.

BTW, Trump's misdeeds are so obvious, it seems absurd that some can't see them or ignore them.

Many (most if not all) of the so deemed misdeeds of Hilary and Biden, have roots (reasonable suspicion) that don't develop with evidence and facts. Who can say with certainty that the coverup is good or that they simply don't exist. The development is primarily spin narratives and connecting dots that don't connect, legally or rationally.

There's hardly any doubt that they are not clean. But the difference in comparison to Trump is that first they don't make their own case against themselves. Trump is rampant in that manner.

Another difference, assuming one trusts the legal system, is that for such high-profile people, high lawyered people, the concept of beyond reasonable doubt is at a higher level insofar as indictments, grand juries, etc., are concerned. In that way, maybe the justice system is tiered.

If you want to remove the vail of the media and the spin that may come w reporting it, you must show the trial in its pure, unedited form.

Now, like Jan 6 Committee, those who will denounce the loudest will not watch/listen to a minute. They just know.

I just don't think there is any limit to the degree a real Trumpeteer can deny. This has been demonstrated for the last three years. I can't find any silver lining in any of what is happening today. Regards, Bill.

I think they should televise the trials. Let's not have the issues decided behind closed doors.

Perhaps seeing the witness testimony, while Trump squirms in the defendant's chair, will change some minds.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
I think they should televise the trials. Let's not have the issues decided behind closed doors.

Perhaps seeing the witness testimony, while Trump squirms in the defendant's chair, will change some minds.

I agree with you, but they won’t watch. They done know. Fox has told them so.

quote:

Originally posted by Kensco:
Justice is serious business. I do not want to see a televised trial. Trump would try to turn it into a circus.

The DOJ has performed a very professional and thorough investigation, that has resulted in at least one indictment to date.

We wouldn't televise the trial if Joe Blow had been indicted. Why give Trump a platform to weep, and whine, and play the victim?

For all the MAGA Morons that continue to deny reality; READ THE INDICTMENT......and then tell us what parts aren't true. The evidence has been provided by Trump himself and the Republicans in his inner circle. I guess you can claim they lied, but where does that get you. Trump made a fool of you. We don't need you to admit it. It's obvious.

Aint going to be any cameras in a federal court room. Never happen.

I would like to see Jack Smith cross-examine trump assuming trump has the stones to take the stand and testify.

Well, then we will have to settle for the status quo re the media reporting and spinning.

One of my favorite sources:

https://youtu.be/JlSxSnYmw1s

If you can't stand to watch the whole thing, then skip ahead to 7:00.

Again:

They show Fox News' style and manner of presentation that appeals to their vast audience. This is marketing BS affirmation to Trumpsters by the network that has the highest ratings. Note that they (Fox) pretend to present both sides, with the loud male voice dominating and in a manner that most people would consider very rude -- but not on Fox. That's what their audience wants.

Blood pressure meds must be the drug of choice for Fox News addicts.

If you have the fortitude, watch this (or skip ahead) through to about 5:00 where the interview with Bill Barr starts.

I especially like the part at about 4:50

https://youtu.be/AjoODbcS-I8

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...winp2fptaskbar&ei=11

Supreme Court Asked to Intervene in Donald Trump Trial
Story by Nick Reynolds •
4h

Congress and former President Donald Trump are asking the U.S. Supreme Court to intervene in his latest federal case.

Democratic members of Congress this week submitted a letter to the Judicial Conference of the United States, an 18-member consortium of federal judges helmed by Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts, urging them to compel the court to allow televised coverage of Trump's latest case regarding his alleged involvement in the January 6, 2021, riot at the U.S. Capitol after his loss in the 2020 election.

"As the policymaking body for the federal courts, the Judicial Conference has historically supported increased transparency and public access to the courts' activities," the letter read. "Given the historic nature of the charges brought forth in these cases, it is hard to imagine a more powerful circumstance for televised proceedings. If the public is to fully accept the outcome, it will be vitally important for it to witness, as directly as possible, how the trials are conducted, the strength of the evidence adduced and the credibility of witnesses."

Trump, meanwhile, is asking the court to stop the case from being heard at all.

"Resources that would have gone into Ads and Rallies, will now have to be spent fighting these Radical Left Thugs in numerous courts throughout the Country. I am leading in all Polls, including against Crooked Joe, but this is not a level playing field. It is Election Interference, & the Supreme Court must intercede. MAGA!"

Recent election finance reports show Trump's campaign has nearly been bankrupted by the volume of legal cases piling up against him as he fights 78 criminal charges in three jurisdictions ranging from obstruction of justice to willful retention of national defense data and falsifying business records.

hey, i might take a couple days off to watch cspan on that - they say he's one indictment away from clinching the nomination, but perhaps this could convince the trumpies that he's not the great white hope

Trump boasts at Alabama fundraiser that he needs ‘one more indictment to close out this election’

https://apnews.com/article/tru...4cc0b7562b7802ad68ef

“Any time they file an indictment, we go way up in the polls,” Trump said at a Republican Party dinner in Alabama. “We need one more indictment to close out this election. One more indictment, and this election is closed out. Nobody has even a chance.”

What if President Biden were to pardon President Trump? President Trump could refuse the pardon which then becomes void.

President Biden looks magnanimous to the middle. President Trump looses this martyrdom worship. Folks who are supporting President Trump because they feel he is getting too heavy a hand are pacified. President Trump’s primary support gets shrunk wo the martyr syndrome. Thus, becomes more likely President Trump is not nominated. President Biden supporters are not going to leave. He might gain some in the middle.

I know foolishness all around. Just o thought I had.

If Biden offers a pardon, Trump will take it.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
hey, i might take a couple days off to watch cspan on that - they say he's one indictment away from clinching the nomination, but perhaps this could convince the trumpies that he's not the great white hope

You give the dumb asses way too much credit.

quote:

What if President Biden were to pardon President Trump?

It would be better if Trump, after conviction, through his lawyers , publicly asks for a pardon, insofar as Biden (or any Dem POTUS) can give it - excluding the State charges.

And instead of a pardon, offer a communion of sentence - let the felonies stand.

That's the deal, avoid Fed jail in exchange for getting out of politics and STFU.

===============================================

In doing a little background research for this post, I found this tidbit of history relating to the communion of sentence for Roger Stone, and the subsequent pardon -- AFTER he threatened Trump .

https://www.independent.co.uk/...-video-b2203556.html

New video shows Roger Stone threatening Trump

‘I’m going to public supporting impeachment. I have no choice,’ Stone says after pardon rejection

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...a6775a42cb0074&ei=54

Trump attorney calls for Jan. 6 trial to be televised, accuses prosecutors of hiding trial
Opinion by Anders Hagstrom
•
16m

I’m pretty sure we all agree to one thing, please no Biden or Trump for next president as both are continuing caricatures of has been

quote:

Originally posted by Bivoj:
I’m pretty sure we all agree to one thing, please no Biden or Trump for next president as both are continuing caricatures of has been

+1

I think that the fact that we can't move on from Trump and Biden is evidence enough that that part of the system is broken - to the extent that means something.

The legislature is also broken - need I elaborate?

It seems to me that the last straw is the judicial branch. So far, so good.

Just look at what they are doing in Israel with "judicial reform".

Trump wants reform toward fascism.

It will be a classic Jerry Springer episode?

Looks like a fourth criminal indictment in GA will be landing in the next day or two- GREAT! It’s strange that the usual Trump apologists are so quiet……… And that trial will be televised since it’s in state court.