Should we cut Ukraine loose or help them resist?

26 February 2025, 04:03

TomP

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
quote:
Originally posted by crbutler:
I'm all for trying to convince Putin to leave Ukraine, and if not, giving Ukraine arms and training (NOT money) and making sure its going where we are trying to get it... in particular that some corrupt Ukranian general isn't padding his swiss account by selling examples to China.

The missing $100B bothers me.

And I don't really care about what Trump thinks of me.

Giving Ukraine what they need to win, will start a battlefield nuclear conflict.

I idly wonder how far that would go. Is anyone nutz enough to go to strategic nukes, or would we just ruin a few square miles of farmland with the tactical variety?

26 February 2025, 04:07

Steve Bertram

quote:
Originally posted by Jayhawker2022:
Freedom isn’t free.

All thy stuff we are supporting you with has to be paid for.

I really want to see Elon and his Wiz Kids turned loose on the Ukrainian money.

How much went to zelinsky Swiss Bank account. How much went to ogliarchs? How much went to the Biden crime syndicate?

Moron....we did not win WWII alone. You should brush up on history before proving yourself to be a fool in public. Typical Trumptard....

26 February 2025, 04:10

Bobster

I say we make them our "lithium/mineral bitch" and promise Vlad we'll keep them in line and out of NATO while allowing his gas and oil to flow through to Europe.

quote:
Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
I say we give them whatever they need to resist Putin short of troops. Fuck Putin.

26 February 2025, 04:16

Jayhawker2022

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
quote:
Originally posted by Jayhawker2022:
Freedom isn’t free.

All thy stuff we are supporting you with has to be paid for.

I really want to see Elon and his Wiz Kids turned loose on the Ukrainian money.

How much went to zelinsky Swiss Bank account. How much went to ogliarchs? How much went to the Biden crime syndicate?

Moron....we did not win WWII alone. You should brush up on history before proving yourself to be a fool in public. Typical Trumptard....

Typical response from a Bouldtard.

Of course we didn’t. I never asserted that.

I specifically referenced the Cold War and not WW2.

Nice job spinning it there Goebbels.

26 February 2025, 04:33

Steve Bertram

quote:
Originally posted by Jayhawker2022:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
quote:
Originally posted by Jayhawker2022:
Freedom isn’t free.

All thy stuff we are supporting you with has to be paid for.

I really want to see Elon and his Wiz Kids turned loose on the Ukrainian money.

How much went to zelinsky Swiss Bank account. How much went to ogliarchs? How much went to the Biden crime syndicate?

Moron....we did not win WWII alone. You should brush up on history before proving yourself to be a fool in public. Typical Trumptard....

Typical response from a Bouldtard.

Of course we didn’t. I never asserted that.

I specifically referenced the Cold War and not WW2.

Nice job spinning it there Goebbels.

Putin needs morons like you, so does Trump. Fucking idiot....

26 February 2025, 04:36

Jayhawker2022

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
quote:
Originally posted by Jayhawker2022:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
quote:
Originally posted by Jayhawker2022:
Freedom isn’t free.

All thy stuff we are supporting you with has to be paid for.

I really want to see Elon and his Wiz Kids turned loose on the Ukrainian money.

How much went to zelinsky Swiss Bank account. How much went to ogliarchs? How much went to the Biden crime syndicate?

Moron....we did not win WWII alone. You should brush up on history before proving yourself to be a fool in public. Typical Trumptard....

Typical response from a Bouldtard.

Of course we didn’t. I never asserted that.

I specifically referenced the Cold War and not WW2.

Nice job spinning it there Goebbels.

Putin needs morons like you, so does Trump. Fucking idiot....

Can’t make a cogent argument so as all lefties do it/the/them resorts directly to name calling.

Standard tactic of the morally bankrupt left.

Relax hippy. Take a few more bong hits. You’ll feel better.

26 February 2025, 04:39

Steve Bertram

quote:
Originally posted by Jayhawker2022:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
quote:
Originally posted by Jayhawker2022:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
quote:
Originally posted by Jayhawker2022:
Freedom isn’t free.

All thy stuff we are supporting you with has to be paid for.

I really want to see Elon and his Wiz Kids turned loose on the Ukrainian money.

How much went to zelinsky Swiss Bank account. How much went to ogliarchs? How much went to the Biden crime syndicate?

Moron....we did not win WWII alone. You should brush up on history before proving yourself to be a fool in public. Typical Trumptard....

Typical response from a Bouldtard.

Of course we didn’t. I never asserted that.

I specifically referenced the Cold War and not WW2.

Nice job spinning it there Goebbels.

Putin needs morons like you, so does Trump. Fucking idiot....

Can’t make a cogent argument so as all lefties do it/the/them resorts directly to name calling.

Standard tactic of the morally bankrupt left.

Relax hippy. Take a few more bong hits. You’ll feel better.

Does Putin pay you trolls per post? Morally bankrupt? Coming from a Trumptard? Now THAT is funny!

26 February 2025, 04:42

Jayhawker2022

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
quote:
Originally posted by Jayhawker2022:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
quote:
Originally posted by Jayhawker2022:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
quote:
Originally posted by Jayhawker2022:
Freedom isn’t free.

All thy stuff we are supporting you with has to be paid for.

I really want to see Elon and his Wiz Kids turned loose on the Ukrainian money.

How much went to zelinsky Swiss Bank account. How much went to ogliarchs? How much went to the Biden crime syndicate?

Moron....we did not win WWII alone. You should brush up on history before proving yourself to be a fool in public. Typical Trumptard....

Typical response from a Bouldtard.

Of course we didn’t. I never asserted that.

I specifically referenced the Cold War and not WW2.

Nice job spinning it there Goebbels.

Putin needs morons like you, so does Trump. Fucking idiot....

Can’t make a cogent argument so as all lefties do it/the/them resorts directly to name calling.

Standard tactic of the morally bankrupt left.

Relax hippy. Take a few more bong hits. You’ll feel better.

Does Putin pay you trolls per post? Morally bankrupt? Coming from a Trumptard? Now THAT is funny!

Thts rich from a party hack who supported a semi sentient vegetable for office.

I actually found out what your Dear Leader Magine Vagina gets and asked for triple.

Back you your bong hippy.

26 February 2025, 04:54

Steve Bertram

quote:
Originally posted by Jayhawker2022:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
quote:
Originally posted by Jayhawker2022:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
quote:
Originally posted by Jayhawker2022:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
quote:
Originally posted by Jayhawker2022:
Freedom isn’t free.

All thy stuff we are supporting you with has to be paid for.

I really want to see Elon and his Wiz Kids turned loose on the Ukrainian money.

How much went to zelinsky Swiss Bank account. How much went to ogliarchs? How much went to the Biden crime syndicate?

Moron....we did not win WWII alone. You should brush up on history before proving yourself to be a fool in public. Typical Trumptard....

Typical response from a Bouldtard.

Of course we didn’t. I never asserted that.

I specifically referenced the Cold War and not WW2.

Nice job spinning it there Goebbels.

Putin needs morons like you, so does Trump. Fucking idiot....

Can’t make a cogent argument so as all lefties do it/the/them resorts directly to name calling.

Standard tactic of the morally bankrupt left.

Relax hippy. Take a few more bong hits. You’ll feel better.

Does Putin pay you trolls per post? Morally bankrupt? Coming from a Trumptard? Now THAT is funny!

Thts rich from a party hack who supported a semi sentient vegetable for office.

I actually found out what your Dear Leader Magine Vagina gets and asked for triple.

Back you your bong hippy.

How about in English?

26 February 2025, 05:07

RolandtheHeadless

What is the consideration for the US to get anything out of a Russia-Ukraine peace deal? Is Trump trying to welch on our prior contributions to Ukraine's defense?

Something doesn't make sense to me. What is Russia giving up? Has anyone released all the terms?

26 February 2025, 05:59

JTEX

quote:
Originally posted by Jayhawker2022:
Freedom isn’t free.

All thy stuff we are supporting you with has to be paid for.

I really want to see Elon and his Wiz Kids turned loose on the Ukrainian money.

How much went to zelinsky Swiss Bank account. How much went to ogliarchs? How much went to the Biden crime syndicate?

Makes you wonder why the dems where so against accountability.....

26 February 2025, 06:52

shankspony

quote:
Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
What is the consideration for the US to get anything out of a Russia-Ukraine peace deal? Is Trump trying to welch on our prior contributions to Ukraine's defense?

Something doesn't make sense to me. What is Russia giving up? Has anyone released all the terms?

These are the things that many in the world will be waiting on answers too before we pass judgment.
Im always hopeful. I want the best for and from Ukraine. But I also want the best for and from the US, Ans so far from Trump it's been lacklustre. I am cheered by the new tone, but that could be more fool me.

26 February 2025, 06:53

shankspony

quote:
Originally posted by Jayhawker2022:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
quote:
Originally posted by Jayhawker2022:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
quote:
Originally posted by Jayhawker2022:
Freedom isn’t free.

All thy stuff we are supporting you with has to be paid for.

I really want to see Elon and his Wiz Kids turned loose on the Ukrainian money.

How much went to zelinsky Swiss Bank account. How much went to ogliarchs? How much went to the Biden crime syndicate?

Moron....we did not win WWII alone. You should brush up on history before proving yourself to be a fool in public. Typical Trumptard....

Typical response from a Bouldtard.

Of course we didn’t. I never asserted that.

I specifically referenced the Cold War and not WW2.

Nice job spinning it there Goebbels.

Putin needs morons like you, so does Trump. Fucking idiot....

Can’t make a cogent argument so as all lefties do it/the/them resorts directly to name calling.

Standard tactic of the morally bankrupt left.

Relax hippy. Take a few more bong hits. You’ll feel better.

Important question. Do you feel you have been making a cogent argument?

26 February 2025, 06:57

MJines

His approach . . . if at first you don’t succeed, keeping on sucking til you do succeed.

26 February 2025, 07:09

Jayhawker2022

quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
His approach . . . if at first you don’t succeed, keeping on sucking til you do succeed.

You literally defined Kamala the Kumdumpster’s political career in one short sentence.

Well done.

26 February 2025, 07:19

RolandtheHeadless

Her personal history couldn't possibly be as salacious as Trump's, and she kicked his ass in the debate.

26 February 2025, 07:25

Magine Enigam

Here's something to consider.

How would Trump handle it?

https://youtube.com/shorts/ffw...?si=zyVC26kWplFEQCr7

The Discipline Of JFK

*************
“Those who control the present, control the past and those who control the past control the future.” George Orwell, 1984
https://www.google.com/search?...sclient=gws-wiz-serp

Degenerate 1:1
1 Then Trump said, "Let Us re-make a Nation in MY Image, after My likeness, to rule over everything in the Nation, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it".

Degenerate 1:2
2 Then Trump said, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay on your behalf."

Degenerate 1:3
3 "My Kingdom come, My will be done."

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

O.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr.

"Be careful. When a democracy is sick, fascism comes to its bedside, but it is not to inquire about its health." - Albert Camus

26 February 2025, 07:26

LHeym500

I do not think many of Trump influence or possession has thought about what happens w the pulling back from European and Asian allies.

They will have to rearm where the U.S. has been providing a defense umbrella. We only need to look back at the prelude to WWI when nations engaged in arm races. At the time, the super weapon was a large, blue water navy. The arms race was a direct contributor to WWI, but we saw it in small arms too.

We will see an advance of nuclear weapons.

All, this abandon Europe, including Ukraine isolation, US first makes us less safe. It sacrifices security.

26 February 2025, 07:30

Jayhawker2022

quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:
I do not think many of Trump influence or possession has thought about what happens w the pulling back from European and Asian allies.

They will have to rearm where the U.S. has been providing a defense umbrella. We only need to look back at the prelude to WWI when nations engaged in arm races. At the time, the super weapon was a large, blue water navy. The arms race was a direct contributor to WWI, but we saw it in small arms too.

We will see an advance of nuclear weapons.

All, this abandon Europe, including Ukraine isolation, US first makes us less safe. It sacrifices security.

For a solid read on the pre-wW1 naval race I highly recommend Massie’s Dreadnaught.

26 February 2025, 07:40

Magine Enigam

https://youtube.com/shorts/Lfi...?si=SY09OYedkbkMak22

Compromising with Putin — Sarah Paine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_C._Paine

Sarah Crosby Mallory "Sally" Paine (in publications, S. C. M. Paine; born 1957) is an American historian, author, and professor of strategy and policy at the U.S. Naval War College in Newport, Rhode Island. She has written and co-edited several books on naval policy and related affairs, and subjects of interest to the United States Navy or Department of Defense. Other works she has authored concern the political and military history of East Asia, particularly China, during the modern era.

26 February 2025, 07:41

shankspony

quote:
Originally posted by Jayhawker2022:
quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:
I do not think many of Trump influence or possession has thought about what happens w the pulling back from European and Asian allies.

They will have to rearm where the U.S. has been providing a defense umbrella. We only need to look back at the prelude to WWI when nations engaged in arm races. At the time, the super weapon was a large, blue water navy. The arms race was a direct contributor to WWI, but we saw it in small arms too.

We will see an advance of nuclear weapons.

All, this abandon Europe, including Ukraine isolation, US first makes us less safe. It sacrifices security.

For a solid read on the pre-wW1 naval race I highly recommend Maddie’s Dreadnaught.

Massie.

For someone who's picked on others spelling, yours is atrocious.

26 February 2025, 07:43

shankspony

quote:
Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
https://youtube.com/shorts/Lfi...?si=SY09OYedkbkMak22

Compromising with Putin — Sarah Paine

Yep she's brilliant and on the money. And it just makes sense.

26 February 2025, 08:01

Jayhawker2022

quote:
Originally posted by shankspony:
quote:
Originally posted by Jayhawker2022:
quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:
I do not think many of Trump influence or possession has thought about what happens w the pulling back from European and Asian allies.

They will have to rearm where the U.S. has been providing a defense umbrella. We only need to look back at the prelude to WWI when nations engaged in arm races. At the time, the super weapon was a large, blue water navy. The arms race was a direct contributor to WWI, but we saw it in small arms too.

We will see an advance of nuclear weapons.

All, this abandon Europe, including Ukraine isolation, US first makes us less safe. It sacrifices security.

For a solid read on the pre-wW1 naval race I highly recommend Maddie’s Dreadnaught.

Massie.

For someone who's picked on others spelling, yours is atrocious.

Sorry. Fat fingers and a small phone.

Thanks for the catch.

26 February 2025, 13:04

Steve Bertram

quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:
I do not think many of Trump influence or possession has thought about what happens w the pulling back from European and Asian allies.

They will have to rearm where the U.S. has been providing a defense umbrella. We only need to look back at the prelude to WWI when nations engaged in arm races. At the time, the super weapon was a large, blue water navy. The arms race was a direct contributor to WWI, but we saw it in small arms too.

We will see an advance of nuclear weapons.

All, this abandon Europe, including Ukraine isolation, US first makes us less safe. It sacrifices security.

Exactly, and it will be generations before the damage can be repaired.

26 February 2025, 17:07

theback40

If I was Ukraine, I would not have wanted to take any "deals" either.
But,..... that 2022 Istanbul Communique must look pretty good about now.

27 February 2025, 06:01

JTEX

quote:
Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Her personal history couldn't possibly be as salacious as Trump's, and she kicked his ass in the debate.

Yeah...maybe....but not so much where it mattered....in the election!!!

President Trump made y'all look like the vapid fools you are......

.

27 February 2025, 06:02

JTEX

quote:
Originally posted by theback40:
If I was Ukraine, I would not have wanted to take any "deals" either.
But,..... that 2022 Istanbul Communique must look pretty good about now.

Another.....Ouch!

27 February 2025, 06:13

Magine Enigam

quote:
2022 Istanbul Communique

https://www.eurasiantimes.com/...-ukraine-heads-back/

Firmly Rejected In 2022, Ukraine Heads Back To Istanbul Communiqué-Like Peace Deal As Trump Looks To Ditch Kyiv?
By Shubhangi Palve -February 24, 2025

As the third anniversary of Russia’s February 2022 invasion of Ukraine approaches, serious negotiations over the protracted war finally seem to be taking shape. But could the war have been halted earlier? Why did the 2022 Istanbul Communiqué fail? And beyond Ukraine, who has already felt—or might still feel—the impact of the collapsed peace talks?

27 February 2025, 07:42

medved

i do hope that if zelensky is signing the new deal to stop the war that the us congress sill sign it as well otherwise we all know what a signature worth ...

27 February 2025, 07:45

Jayhawker2022

quote:
Originally posted by medved:
i do hope that if zelensky is signing the new deal to stop the war that the us congress sill sign it as well otherwise we all know what a signature worth ...

Ask the American Indians.

27 February 2025, 07:50

LHeym500

The House has no role in treaties. The Senate must approve the treaty by 2/3rds vote.

27 February 2025, 08:04

MJines

I think if I was Zelensky and was forced to sign the deal, I would honor it until I got what I needed and then tell the US to pound sand. Normally I would say a deal is a deal, but the deal he is presented with under the circumstances is essentially an adhesion contract. The US seems to have no compunction against hanging him out to dry, he should feel no compunction to do likewise. I suspect most of our allies think the same these days.

27 February 2025, 09:24

medved

quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
I think if I was Zelensky and was forced to sign the deal, I would honor it until I got what I needed and then tell the US to pound sand. Normally I would say a deal is a deal, but the deal he is presented with under the circumstances is essentially an adhesion contract. The US seems to have no compunction against hanging him out to dry, he should feel no compunction to do likewise. I suspect most of our allies think the same these days.

for sure seems your president set up a precedent that might not end well ...