https://youtu.be/_NT9iWsCyTM?si=6TFjwgtXx6jDPf62

Presidential historian Tim Naftali joins the show to discuss where this moment stands in the longer arc of U.S. history.

Historians will look back at America as it is today and shake their heads!

How one of the most advanced countries in the world can degenerate to this level?

Politically.

Socially.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Historians will look back at America as it is today and shake their heads!

How one of the most advanced countries in the world can degenerate to this level?

Politically.


Socially.

No doubt about that,

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Historians will look back at America as it is today and shake their heads!

How one of the most advanced countries in the world can degenerate to this level?

Politically.

Socially.

Allowing criminals and cheats to hold high office will do that.

Nixon screwing up the peace talks to keep the Vietnam War going so Johnson couldn't claim he ended it.

Reagan getting Iran to keep our hostages so Jimmy Carter couldn't greet them returning home.

Bush the Lesser being awarded the Presidency by a Supreme Court largely appointed by his Father.

And, of course, the worst scum to ever sit in the Oval Office, Putin's Puppet himself, elected by the dumbest among us after a lifetime of scams, fraud and failure (he couldn't make money running casinos!).

After most Administrations leading figures go on to jobs in corporate America or academia. Then there's the Trump Maladministration:

Bannon: Felon
Gates: Felon
Papadapoulous: Felon
Navarro: Felon
Stone: Felon
Manafort: Felon
Flynn: Felon
Sater: Felon
Cohen: Felon
Broidy: Felon
Weisselberg: Felon
Powell: Felon
Clark: Felon
Meadows: Felon
Eastman: Felon
Guiliani: Felon
Roman: Felon
Chesebro: Felon
Trump: Felon

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Historians will look back at America as it is today and shake their heads!

How one of the most advanced countries in the world can degenerate to this level?

Politically.

Socially.

Allowing criminals and cheats to hold high office will do that.

Nixon screwing up the peace talks to keep the Vietnam War going so Johnson couldn't claim he ended it.

Reagan getting Iran to keep our hostages so Jimmy Carter couldn't greet them returning home.

Bush the Lesser being awarded the Presidency by a Supreme Court largely appointed by his Father.

And, of course, the worst scum to ever sit in the Oval Office, Putin's Puppet himself, elected by the dumbest among us after a lifetime of scams, fraud and failure (he couldn't make money running casinos!).

After most Administrations leading figures go on to jobs in corporate America or academia. Then there's the Trump Maladministration:

Bannon: Felon
Gates: Felon
Papadapoulous: Felon
Navarro: Felon
Stone: Felon
Manafort: Felon
Flynn: Felon
Sater: Felon
Cohen: Felon
Broidy: Felon
Weisselberg: Felon
Powell: Felon
Clark: Felon
Meadows: Felon
Eastman: Felon
Guiliani: Felon
Roman: Felon
Chesebro: Felon
Trump: Felon

Are talking about some third world banana republic?

Nigeria?

Zimbabwe?

North Korea perhaps?

Saeed,
I don’t really disagree with you.

It is the breakdown of the family unit and our social structure in general that got us here.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Historians will look back at America as it is today and shake their heads!

How one of the most advanced countries in the world can degenerate to this level?

Politically.

Socially.

Allowing criminals and cheats to hold high office will do that.

Nixon screwing up the peace talks to keep the Vietnam War going so Johnson couldn't claim he ended it.

Reagan getting Iran to keep our hostages so Jimmy Carter couldn't greet them returning home.

Bush the Lesser being awarded the Presidency by a Supreme Court largely appointed by his Father.

And, of course, the worst scum to ever sit in the Oval Office, Putin's Puppet himself, elected by the dumbest among us after a lifetime of scams, fraud and failure (he couldn't make money running casinos!).

After most Administrations leading figures go on to jobs in corporate America or academia. Then there's the Trump Maladministration:

Bannon: Felon
Gates: Felon
Papadapoulous: Felon
Navarro: Felon
Stone: Felon
Manafort: Felon
Flynn: Felon
Sater: Felon
Cohen: Felon
Broidy: Felon
Weisselberg: Felon
Powell: Felon
Clark: Felon
Meadows: Felon
Eastman: Felon
Guiliani: Felon
Roman: Felon
Chesebro: Felon
Trump: Felon

Are talking about some third world banana republic?

Nigeria?

Zimbabwe?

North Korea perhaps?

That's ridiculous.

Trump didn't put on a fake uniform bedazzled with imaginary medals, he depends on his minions to photoshop that for him.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Saeed,
I don’t really disagree with you.

It is the breakdown of the family unit and our social structure in general that got us here.

Then why don’t you all do something about it!

Be realistic.

Stop this utterly pointless party politics!

Agree on a decent man or woman to lead you, as non of the current crop are even close!

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Historians will look back at America as it is today and shake their heads!

How one of the most advanced countries in the world can degenerate to this level?

Politically.

Socially.

Allowing criminals and cheats to hold high office will do that.

Nixon screwing up the peace talks to keep the Vietnam War going so Johnson couldn't claim he ended it.

Reagan getting Iran to keep our hostages so Jimmy Carter couldn't greet them returning home.

Bush the Lesser being awarded the Presidency by a Supreme Court largely appointed by his Father.

And, of course, the worst scum to ever sit in the Oval Office, Putin's Puppet himself, elected by the dumbest among us after a lifetime of scams, fraud and failure (he couldn't make money running casinos!).

After most Administrations leading figures go on to jobs in corporate America or academia. Then there's the Trump Maladministration:

Bannon: Felon
Gates: Felon
Papadapoulous: Felon
Navarro: Felon
Stone: Felon
Manafort: Felon
Flynn: Felon
Sater: Felon
Cohen: Felon
Broidy: Felon
Weisselberg: Felon
Powell: Felon
Clark: Felon
Meadows: Felon
Eastman: Felon
Guiliani: Felon
Roman: Felon
Chesebro: Felon
Trump: Felon

And that's not counting all the lawyers who lost their license, or got censured. Nor does it count all the convictions of the participants on 1/6. There are co-conspirators and others not yet indicted. And the fake electors in several states have been indicted.

Yet, it's all a plot to get Trump.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...seW?ocid=socialshare

Why Trump may lose 2024: He’s a convicted felon along with his CFO, 2016 chair, WH aides & lawyers

Now a convicted felon, Donald Trump leaves behind a long trail of convicted aides. In this special report, MSNBC Chief Legal Correspondent Ari Melber delivers a special report on Trump’s criminal enterprises.

The people that actually run the country don't want a decent man as president. That's about the last thing they want.

Who are "The people that actually run the country"?

I see that you didn't follow up with more details of your conspiracy theory.

=============================================

Let me help you.

I like David Brooks. Doesn't everyone?

I didn't find articles on who's running the country, but I did find a good article on who is ruining the country.

This is something that we are all probably guilty of, one way or another, to some degree.


Chicken Littles Are Ruining America
Opinion by David Brooks • 4mo • 15 min read

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...eccb56faf888&ei=102#

The article is probably too long for you to read,

so here are some excerpts:

The problem is that if you mess around with negative emotions, negative emotions will mess around with you, eventually taking over your life. Focusing on the negative inflates negativity.

Believing in vicious conspiracy theories can also boost your self-esteem: You are the superior mind who sees beneath the surface into the hidden realms where evil cabals really run the world. You have true knowledge of how the world works, which the masses are too naive to see. Conspiracy theories put you in the role of the truth-telling hero. Paranoia is the opiate of those who fear they may be insignificant.

Being negative also helps you appear smart. In a classic 1983 study by the psychologist Teresa Amabile, authors of scathingly negative book reviews were perceived as more intelligent than the authors of positive reviews. Intellectually insecure people tend to be negative because they think it displays their brain power.

When people around us are pessimistic, indignant, and rageful, we’re soon likely to become that way too. This is how today’s culture has produced mass neuroticism.

The neuroticism problem seems to be especially acute on the left. (maybe that explains why I have few leftist friends)

But another explanation for this phenomenon that I find persuasive is that contemporary left-wing discourse tends to rob people of a sense of agency

“Just about everything researchers understand about resilience and mental well-being suggests that people who feel like they are the chief architects of their own life” are “vastly better off than people whose default position is victimization, hurt and a sense that life simply happens to them,” the journalist Jill Filipovic wrote recently on Substack. And yet victimization, pain, and powerlessness are now the approved postures of our time.

I am not saying that America doesn’t have real problems—Trump, climate change, racial injustice, persistent income inequality, a rising tide of authoritarianism around the globe. In our age, as in every age, there are things to protest and things to be grateful for.

What I am saying is that the persistent gaps between how things are and how they are perceived are new, maybe even unprecedented. In case after case, the data show one thing; conventional wisdom perceives another. President Joe Biden leads an economy that is producing millions of jobs and raising real wages, but his poll numbers about his economic stewardship are terrible. He passes legislation that invests hundreds of billions of dollars in clean energy, but the people most agitated about climate change give him no credit. Biden’s curse is that he is running not just against the Republicans but against the entire zeitgeist.

The thought of a second Trump term appalls and terrifies me. But to the more apocalyptic and Chicken Little–ish of my progressive friends, I’ll say this: You’re only helping him. Donald Trump thrives in an atmosphere of menace. Authoritarianism flourishes amid pessimism, fear, and rage. Trump feeds off zero-sum thinking, the notion that society is war—us-versus-them, dog-eat-dog. The more you contribute to the culture of depressive negativity, the more likely Trump’s reelection becomes.

One moment in history gives me hope. In the 1950s, as I’ve noted, the McCarthy era brought a wave of paranoia about communists under every bed. But that moment generated a cultural recoil that eventually led to, for instance, John F. Kennedy’s inaugural address, one of the most lavishly optimistic addresses in American history: “Together, let us explore the stars, conquer the deserts, eradicate diseases, tap the ocean depths and encourage the arts and commerce.” And it wasn’t so long ago that Barack Obama thrilled millions with his gospel of hope and change. We shouldn’t let our current season of gloom and menace become self-fulfilling, but rather should help make the country ripe for a communalism of belonging. History shows that it doesn’t pay to be pessimistic about pessimism.

quote:

Originally posted by postoak:
The people that actually run the country don't want a decent man as president. That's about the last thing they want.

When someone posts something like that it gets my interest.

So, to follow up, here's something:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/vide...0605fb835c8592&ei=47

Propaganda and the people who turn lies into reality the subject of 'Invisible Rulers'

Author Renée DiResta joins Morning Joe to discuss her new book 'Invisible Rulers: The People Who Turn Lies into Reality'.

The invisible ones are the ones paying the money to get selected zombies into office!

$250,000 for seat next to Trump?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...rtisan_news_websites

Dark Money

Partisan news websites
A 2024 study by NewsGuard, a misinformation tracking company, found that "the number of partisan-backed outlets designed to look like impartial news outlets has officially surpassed the number of real, local daily newspapers in the U.S." NewsGuard identified at least 1,265 such websites "backed by dark money or intentionally masquerading as local news sites for political purposes." According to Axios, almost half of these websites are targeted to swing states, "a clear sign that they're designed to influence politics."

Also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...bate_over_dark_money

Democrats in the United States Congress have repeatedly introduced the DISCLOSE Act, proposed legislation to require disclosure of election spending by "corporations, labor unions, super-PACs, and, most importantly, politically active nonprofits."[63] The 2014 version of the DISCLOSE Act would require covered groups, including 501(c)(4), to reveal the source of election-spending donations of $10,000 or more.[63] The bill also targets the use of pass-through and shell corporations to evade disclosure by requiring that such groups disclose the origin of contributions.[63] Senate Republicans, led by their leader Mitch McConnell, "have blocked earlier iterations of the DISCLOSE Act since 2010."[63]

According to legal scholar Richard Briffault, disclosure of campaign expenditures, contributions, and donors is intended to deter corruption.[64]

Also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...roup#Political_views

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
The invisible ones are the ones paying the money to get selected zombies into office!

$250,000 for seat next to Trump?

https://www.budget.senate.gov/...uo-offer-to-big-oil-

05.23.24
Budget, Finance Committees Launch Joint Investigation into Donald Trump’s Quid Pro Quo Offer to Big Oil

https://wapo.st/3zaxnu5

As Donald Trump sat with some of the country’s top oil executives at his Mar-a-Lago Club last month, one executive complained about how they continued to face burdensome environmental regulations despite spending $400 million to lobby the Biden administration in the last year.

Trump’s response stunned several of the executives in the room overlooking the ocean: You all are wealthy enough, he said, that you should raise $1 billion to return me to the White House. At the dinner, he vowed to immediately reverse dozens of President Biden’s environmental rules and policies and stop new ones from being enacted, according to people with knowledge of the meeting, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe a private conversation.

Giving $1 billion would be a “deal,” Trump said, because of the taxation and regulation they would avoid thanks to him, according to the people.

https://www.independent.co.uk/...tiktok-b2562195.html

‘Brazen corruption’: Donald Trump is selling policies for a second term to the highest bidders
Desperate to return to the White House, Trump is selling off his legislative agenda to donors — even when that means reversing old promises. Richard Hall and Andrew Feinberg report

23 hours ago

https://www.salon.com/2024/01/...di-arabia-in-office/

"White House for sale": Report reveals Trump made over $6M from China and Saudi Arabia in office
Trump guilty of the same conduct Republicans are trying to dig up on Joe Biden, Democratic report says

Donald Trump's businesses raked in at least $7.8 million from 20 foreign governments throughout his presidency, new documents released by House Democrats on Thursday show, according to The New York Times. The overseas transactions, outlined in a 156-page report called "White House For Sale" produced by House Oversight Committee Democrats, provide hard evidence of the former president's engagement in the kind of conduct House Republicans accuse President Joe Biden of as they attempt to build an impeachment case against him despite their probe of his alleged dealings failing to yield any evidence.

https://static01.nyt.com/newsg...17/849dad00-full.pdf

I think Trump and Biden accurately reflect the quality of the american people and their good judgment. I can't say worse.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Historians will look back at America as it is today and shake their heads!

How one of the most advanced countries in the world can degenerate to this level?

Politically.

Socially.

Honestly Saeed, I think that’s evolutionary and simply ‘natures way’, and probably brought on by affluence and its subsequent arrogance, self indulgence and overconfidence.

When a society is young and not yet wealthy, its population is busy striving for survival and improvement. Once wealth and security have been achieved, they have the time and means to get into ever increasing mischief - and show less regard for the quality of their leaders, viewing ’strength’ and self aggrandizing rhetoric as positive attributes.

That’s a historically demonstrated marker on the route to decay and collapse. Egypt. Rome. Greece. Etruscans. Minoans. Sumerians, and several more. Some societies have endured for millennia, others for mere decades. When a society becomes so mighty that it feels it can afford to alienate it’s allies, it’s headed for a wreck.

I’ll let you speculate on who’s next.

quote:

When a society becomes so mighty that it feels it can afford to alienate it’s allies, it’s headed for a wreck.

That was worth quoting, IMO.

Think about the scale of it.