It now appears Islamic State was behind the brutal bombings in Iran that killed scores and injured hundreds. Why do some Sunni militant groups so hate Shiites?
I mean, we in the Christian world have had our differences between Catholics and Protestants since the Reformation -- thinking of Northern Ireland in most recent times -- but this IS hatred seems without bounds and completely indiscriminate.
Saeed, my friend, enlightenment?
What is it specifically about Shia belief that is so apostate to some Sunnis?

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
It now appears Islamic State was behind the brutal bombings in Iran that killed scores and injured hundreds. Why do some Sunni militant groups so hate Shiites?
I mean, we in the Christian world have had our differences between Catholics and Protestants since the Reformation -- thinking of Northern Ireland in most recent times -- but this IS hatred seems without bounds and completely indiscriminate.
Saeed, my friend, enlightenment?
What is it specifically about Shia belief that is so apostate to some Sunnis?

It's very technical, but essentially the Shia put the peanut butter on the top slice of bread, while the Sunni put the jelly on top.

Wow so much clearer.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
It now appears Islamic State was behind the brutal bombings in Iran that killed scores and injured hundreds. Why do some Sunni militant groups so hate Shiites?
I mean, we in the Christian world have had our differences between Catholics and Protestants since the Reformation -- thinking of Northern Ireland in most recent times -- but this IS hatred seems without bounds and completely indiscriminate.
Saeed, my friend, enlightenment?
What is it specifically about Shia belief that is so apostate to some Sunnis?

Bill me friend I say very plainly to you, Stop trying to wrap your Western brain, your Infidel reasoning around the Islam practiced over there.

"We" don't think like them, didn't grow up like them, haven't had the same education nor the same experiences.

You won't get it, they can't explain it to you and frankly, I think yours and others continued interest and consideration is a big part of the reason "We" keep trying and failing over there.

Bill I feel really confident in saying to you stay out of their way, stay off their streets. Stay off their radar and out of their headlines. We don't get it, we can't get it.

The problem is religion, which has caused more wars than anything else in human history.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

Bill me friend I say very plainly to you, Stop trying to wrap your Western brain, your Infidel reasoning around the Islam practiced over there.

"We" don't think like them, didn't grow up like them, haven't had the same education nor the same experiences.

You won't get it, they can't explain it to you and frankly, I think yours and others continued interest and consideration is a big part of the reason "We" keep trying and failing over there.

Bill I feel really confident in saying to you stay out of their way, stay off their streets. Stay off their radar and out of their headlines. We don't get it, we can't get it.

Good advice, IMO. We keep making the mistake of projecting our worldview, yes it can be generalized, onto them, and keep being bewildered about the disconnect.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
It now appears Islamic State was behind the brutal bombings in Iran that killed scores and injured hundreds. Why do some Sunni militant groups so hate Shiites?
I mean, we in the Christian world have had our differences between Catholics and Protestants since the Reformation -- thinking of Northern Ireland in most recent times -- but this IS hatred seems without bounds and completely indiscriminate.
Saeed, my friend, enlightenment?
What is it specifically about Shia belief that is so apostate to some Sunnis?

No idea Bill.

Pure, hateful crimes against humanity.

No difference to the Irish Christians killing each other.

Hats off to anyone who can actually understand any of the stupid killings going on around the world.

I cannot!

One difference I see is that the Irish Christians weren't in the streets chanting "Death to America" after a bombing.

After that, I have little sympathy for Iranian bombing victims.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
It now appears Islamic State was behind the brutal bombings in Iran that killed scores and injured hundreds. Why do some Sunni militant groups so hate Shiites?
I mean, we in the Christian world have had our differences between Catholics and Protestants since the Reformation -- thinking of Northern Ireland in most recent times -- but this IS hatred seems without bounds and completely indiscriminate.
Saeed, my friend, enlightenment?
What is it specifically about Shia belief that is so apostate to some Sunnis?

No idea Bill.

Pure, hateful crimes against humanity.

No difference to the Irish Christians killing each other.

Hats off to anyone who can actually understand any of the stupid killings going on around the world.

I cannot!

And I believe you. I'm thinking your culture had a different twist than those your age in Yemen or Somalia or Iran and so like your Western Infidel friends, you feel no need to "Behead Thy Neighbor", nor drape your ladies in a canvas tent.

On the other hand, the Afghans think differently don't they? In public and on the podium in front of the microphone the Pakistanis laud "Westernism" but in private hide and protect Osama Bin Ladin.

You've said it dozens of times here and I agree with you those dozens of times, the West and specifically The USA should stop meddling.

I myself would love to visit and see the cypress forests of Afghanistan, the architecture in Turkey and Pakistan, the Roman Roads in Jordan. Id dress myself in Islams finest attire, cover my daughters head, take a dozen pictures and otherwise leave no trace. These two Americans would swipe their visa card, leave some dollars, flush the toilet and wash our hands. Nothing more. But we cantand that's sad.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
The problem is religion, which has caused more wars than anything else in human history.

Except Islam is truly a political system veiled as a religion.

quote:

Stop trying to wrap your Western brain, your Infidel reasoning around the Islam practiced over there.

"We" don't think like them, didn't grow up like them, haven't had the same education nor the same experiences.

You won't get it, they can't explain it to you and frankly, I think yours and others continued interest and consideration is a big part of the reason "We" keep trying and failing over there.

100%

Appreciate the thoughts, fellas. I am not interested in meddling, just trying to understand what motivates such violence among people who all apparently share the belief that "there is no God but God and Mohammed is his prophet."

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
It now appears Islamic State was behind the brutal bombings in Iran that killed scores and injured hundreds. Why do some Sunni militant groups so hate Shiites?
I mean, we in the Christian world have had our differences between Catholics and Protestants since the Reformation -- thinking of Northern Ireland in most recent times -- but this IS hatred seems without bounds and completely indiscriminate.
Saeed, my friend, enlightenment?
What is it specifically about Shia belief that is so apostate to some Sunnis?

Bill me friend I say very plainly to you, Stop trying to wrap your Western brain, your Infidel reasoning around the Islam practiced over there.

"We" don't think like them, didn't grow up like them, haven't had the same education nor the same experiences.

You won't get it, they can't explain it to you and frankly, I think yours and others continued interest and consideration is a big part of the reason "We" keep trying and failing over there.

Bill I feel really confident in saying to you stay out of their way, stay off their streets. Stay off their radar and out of their headlines. We don't get it, we can't get it.

On this, we agree.
This is EXACTLY why the border should be closed and any illegal immigrant of working/fighting age needs to be removed.
Just look at the pictures/film of the young men flooding over the border! It will be our undoing.

We are in effect, importing an opposing philosophy. A philosophy which cannot be untaught.
Which brings us back to the OP.
Islam is a religion, but as bluefish notes, it is primarily a militant sociopolitical body with a bunch of spiritual benefits thrown in as a bonus.
Combine the upbringing, education, social norms, and politics of the Sunni Islamic State and no one should be at all surprised that they want to annihilate their opposition.

So then why is the US federal government allowing military aged males into this country in many cases unchecked? Occam’s Razor leaps to mind.

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
So then why is the US federal government allowing military aged males into this country in many cases unchecked? Occam’s Razor leaps to mind.

God, I wish I knew.
On the other hand, maybe I don’t…

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
It now appears Islamic State was behind the brutal bombings in Iran that killed scores and injured hundreds. Why do some Sunni militant groups so hate Shiites?
I mean, we in the Christian world have had our differences between Catholics and Protestants since the Reformation -- thinking of Northern Ireland in most recent times -- but this IS hatred seems without bounds and completely indiscriminate.
Saeed, my friend, enlightenment?
What is it specifically about Shia belief that is so apostate to some Sunnis?

Muslims have never had the equivalent of our Reformation, that's their problem.

Bill,

The Prophet Muhammad died in 632 A.D. Most of his followers, later Sunnis, figured the Muslim elite should choose his successor. The rest thought his successor should be from his family, namely Cousin (and son-in-law) Ali. These were Shia.

The Sunni won and appointed a close friend of the late Prophet, Abu Bakr the Third Caliph (the first two were immediately murdered). Abu got assassinated in 661. In 681 Ali's son, Hussein led a group of followers to Karbala to try to replace the Caliph, Yazid, and got slaughtered. His martyrdom is the backbone of Shia separatism.

So, it's a fairly new development, only going on since 681 A.D.

If you have any suggestions I'm sure both sides would be receptive.

So the Sunni and Shiites have been killing each other longer than they have been killing Christians…… Ahhh, the religion of peace.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
So the Sunni and Shiites have been killing each other longer than they have been killing Christians…… Ahhh, the religion of peace.

People have been killing people since there have been people. The Sunni and Shia weren't early adopters as these things go.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Appreciate the thoughts, fellas. I am not interested in meddling, just trying to understand what motivates such violence among people who all apparently share the belief that "there is no God but God and Mohammed is his prophet."

I would guess your assumption is wrong.
It has nothing to do with “religion”. Religion is an excuse for human action. The people who did this did so as humans then justified it on religious grounds I imagine.

Prisons are full of religious people. We are the “Edsel” of primates.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
So the Sunni and Shiites have been killing each other longer than they have been killing Christians…… Ahhh, the religion of peace.

People have been killing people since there have been people. The Sunni and Shia weren't early adopters as these things go.

Well, according to your timeline, they started killing each other well less than 50 years after the Prophet’s death, all in the name of religion. I’d call that pretty early adapters.

quote:

Originally posted by Navaluk:

Prisons are full of religious people.

More are on the loose than in prison, in the USA, mostly because they abide secular rule of law, which basically is all that keeps them in check regarding morals, ethics and such.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
So the Sunni and Shiites have been killing each other longer than they have been killing Christians…… Ahhh, the religion of peace.

People have been killing people since there have been people. The Sunni and Shia weren't early adopters as these things go.

Well, according to your timeline, they started killing each other well less than 50 years after the Prophet’s death, all in the name of religion. I’d call that pretty early adapters.

It's not actually "my timeline", it's a little-known branch of the humanities called "history", but surprisingly few seem to have heard of it.

You posted the timeline, not me. I would say that a time span of less than 50 years before the religious killings started is indeed a SHORT time span…..

Given that Islam was brutally attempted to be destroyed by other religions in the area (admittedly the precursor faiths in the Arabic tribes) it can hardly be surprising that violence was common from its inception.

That even its adherents cannot easily explain why the violence shows that it’s not a wholly logical situation.

While we of the west are further along than Islam with regards to dealing with religious disagreements, our history is both longer and no less bloody.

Islam needs to have its adherents come together and live up to the ideals that Islam professes.

Of course, Christianity should do better re this as well.

quote:

While we of the west are further along than Islam with regards to dealing with religious disagreements, our history is both longer and no less bloody.

So far, nowadays, our religious disagreements are mostly settled peacefully. But the Christian Right has a plan. Domination.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...e&ei=10&sc=shoreline

Trump just promised an authoritarian ‘task force’ to impose Christian ideology
Story by Sarah Posner • 2h

It sure looks like the secular humanists are winning the domination game.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

While we of the west are further along than Islam with regards to dealing with religious disagreements, our history is both longer and no less bloody.

So far, nowadays, our religious disagreements are mostly settled peacefully. But the Christian Right has a plan. Domination.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...e&ei=10&sc=shoreline

Trump just promised an authoritarian ‘task force’ to impose Christian ideology
Story by Sarah Posner • 2h