What kills more human beings?
Abortion or guns?

quote:

Originally posted by Bivoj:
What kills more human beings?
Abortion or guns?

Does it matter? Isn't killing any human being bad?

Seems to me saving one single life from a car wreck, drug overdose, hypothermia, poisoned food or water, a gunshot or abortion is a good thing and something to pursue.

Abortion--leaving out late-term--doesn't kill human beings.

Stupidest post of the year entrant right there.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Abortion--leaving out late-term--doesn't kill human beings.

As a person who has studied embryology…all I can say is wow!!!

What a warped view of science.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Abortion--leaving out late-term--doesn't kill human beings.

As a person who has studied embryology…all I can say is wow!!!

What a warped view of science.

Let the "expert" opinions begin.

Right because it takes an “expert” to know what a human being is. Tell us, what is a woman?

. . . bluefish, running scared of gays and transgenders again. Some how every conversation gets back to gays and transgenders. Stop living in guilt, come out of the closet.

Where do you come up with this stuff? The one who keeps making the references is you. I note most of you liberals take your cues from Alinsky; accuse your enemy of that which you do. Does your wife know about your preoccupation with buggery?

When people say Guns kill people but I never heard them saying, abortions kill people

. . . abortions, with the possible exception of late term abortions, kill fetuses not people.

Hey Homo Genius newsflash: a fetus is a human; it is merely a stage of development but human still. How is it possible to be so ignorant Jines? Wow.

A human fetus is human, all right. It's not a fish or a dog.

"Being" I have a problem with, when applied to a non-viable fetus. We don't normally call a fish or dog a being, though they might be included in the broad definition of the term.

Usually when we say "human being," we're talking about a person. As I've said on prior occasions, a non-viable fetus is not a person; it's a fetus.

But a human nonetheless albeit one in development. It has all the characteristics it will ever have as a mature human being. To call it less is to deny reality and our very humanity.

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
Hey Homo Genius newsflash: a fetus is a human; it is merely a stage of development but human still. How is it possible to be so ignorant Jines? Wow.

at 15-20 weeks, it's not a human - can't survive outside the womb - and that is actually SCIENCE - removing it is interesting, but you aren't 'killing' a human

it is not a :
dog
cat
monkey
etc etc
kill it if you wish
it is
HUMAN
Homo Sapien
from embryo to death
THAT IS SCIENCE

Love ya - my opinion is that until it is viable, it's not actually a human being -- and yeah, i get the science that at conception is has the same genes as if it lived 100 years, more or less

quote:

Originally posted by Bivoj:
When people say Guns kill people but I never heard them saying, abortions kill people

. . . abortions, with the possible exception of late term abortions, kill fetuses not people.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Love ya - my opinion is that until it is viable, it's not actually a human being -- and yeah, i get the science that at conception is has the same genes as if it lived 100 years, more or less

So viability is your standard for humanity? That is a moving target isn’t it? And what do you mean by exist outside the womb; feed itself? Care for itself? Clarify.

even in death
the remains are human

as to people
some humans do not achieve that state

ie: some barristers for example

If a person is in a horrible car crash and lives on IV hydration and nutrition, eliminates through catheters and diapers, and is on assisted ventilation without the ability to speak for themselves are they not human beings in that time period?

You can see how flimsy an argument Jeffeosso is making. I would have much more respect for these liberals if they would man up and simply admit it is a human being and they favor killing it. At least they would be honest about it. Trying to whitewash it by calling it a fetus or a clump of cells is so soy boy.

quote:

Jeffeosso

do not think/believe he is a "liberal" -
as in left wing voter at all

Thanks for the laugh, of calling me a soyboy. I'll be chuckling about that for days. But, tbh, I am socially pretty liberal in the classic sense.

. . . the GOP has lost sight of the fact that many conservatives, people that favor fiscal responsibility, a strong defense, personal freedom, etc., are actually socially more liberal leaning. Comes from their belief in personal responsibility and individual liberty . . . today’s GOP just wants conformity with fringe leanings.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
If a person is in a horrible car crash and lives on IV hydration and nutrition, eliminates through catheters and diapers, and is on assisted ventilation without the ability to speak for themselves are they not human beings in that time period?

If that person was me, I would love to be able to decide or have made it clear in a living will, that euthanasia would be an option. I had a minor procedure last Friday and brought my dnr with me

quote:

brought my dnr with me

an appropriate "adult" decision

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
If a person is in a horrible car crash and lives on IV hydration and nutrition, eliminates through catheters and diapers, and is on assisted ventilation without the ability to speak for themselves are they not human beings in that time period?

If that person was me, I would love to be able to decide or have made it clear in a living will, that euthanasia would be an option. I had a minor procedure last Friday and brought my dnr with me

This.

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:

quote:

brought my dnr with me

an appropriate "adult" decision

And this....do your children and/or grandchildren have a,dnr?

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
If a person is in a horrible car crash and lives on IV hydration and nutrition, eliminates through catheters and diapers, and is on assisted ventilation without the ability to speak for themselves are they not human beings in that time period?

If that person was me, I would love to be able to decide or have made it clear in a living will, that euthanasia would be an option. I had a minor procedure last Friday and brought my dnr with me

Yes, and I respect your thought process here.

But, I personally know a person who was in that condition for about 90 days who is alive and well and as normal as you and I (using the term loosely). He and his son are headed out to their deer lease today for OK opening day.

The fact IS that abortion is killing a human being…one that is in the most vulnerable of states and completely dependent on its life support system with NO way to advocate for itself.

I agree its killing a human being.

So is self defense.

The point being that it isn't a criminal killing.

Its a construct of law. Just not a very consistent law, morally.

The difference between a DNR order and an abortion is that the abortee isn't given a choice. The mother, as agent of her body is.

Legally, where and when you get rights is rather curious to me. If a fetus isn't a human life, why are we allowing courts to prosecute folks who injure the mom and cause fetal demise for murder... this sometimes it is, and sometimes it isn't is the problem here from a logical standpoint.

Because the harm done is against the agency of the mother who wanted to birth the to be child.

We do not even best full term, grown children and young adults with full rights/agency.

Despite Dr. Easter’s complaints, no am early term fetus or zygote is not a human being.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Because the harm done is against the agency of the mother who wanted to birth the to be child.
So why is it murder?

We do not even best full term, grown children and young adults with full rights/agency.


Despite Dr. Easter’s complaints, no am early term fetus or zygote is not a human being.

Sorry, they are. Just not in the eyes of the law, except in some cases.

quote:

Legally, where and when you get rights is rather curious to me. If a fetus isn't a human life, why are we allowing courts to prosecute folks who injure the mom and cause fetal demise for murder... this sometimes it is, and sometimes it isn't is the problem here from a logical standpoint.

Logic should count......follow the science.....or not....the liberal way.....


.

Murder is defined as unlawful killing of a person. If it’s not a person, they assaulted the mother, and she had a miscarriage.

What you in effect are supporting is a very goofy special crime- assaulting a pregnant woman who wants to have a baby, that results in the crime being significantly upgraded- from a potential misdemeanor to a capital felony in some states.

It’s nonsensical if the fetus is not a human being to treat the mother’s wishes in one case as it is, and in another it’s not.

It’s legal and has legal logic to it, but in absolute terms it’s an oxymoron.