I was talking to my wife today. The above book title she read in the 4th Grade.

The book describes growing up from the point of view of a female protagonist entering puberty. You know it discusses real themes in context. Specifically, objectionable to team right wing snow flakes is the sun theme of the girl not getting and getting her period.

This is the kind of book Gov. DeSantis says is evil.

Did he actually say that and, if so, in what context and what makes it evil?

I’ve heard of it, but not read it.

I have no idea what a “sun theme of the girl not getting and getting her period” is.

Please translate.

Sub theme

Blue fish. We have to ban these evil books that seek to pervert our children.

Here is his words

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis called accusations his administration banned books a “hoax.” However, he started a Wednesday press conference with a video spotlighting books his administration had indeed banned.

“A lot of what's been going on is an attempt to create a political narrative. And it's a false political narrative,” the Republican governor said. “That's bad enough as it is, I guess, but for me, the important thing is, that's a false narrative in service of using our schools for indoctrination rather than education.”

Now a portion of the people who object to books like Are you there God, have no problem with their kids watching Clint Eastwood’s Unforgiven, or viewing Winchester 73.

Violence okay, cussing and racism okay, beating humans to death okay, whores okay, and sons killing fathers when brother kills that son okay.

Natural human biology that kids are going through in real time with the cultural backdrop of what it means to be going through it; bad.

The David in a 12 grade art class covering the Renaissance; bad. Why? Obstinately, because genitalia is shown. I shall refrain from my speculation as to why.

I will not refrain from speculation why the Republican Party has a faction doubling down on this. It is Social Engineering from the far right to teach sex is evil, women are dirty, trans and gay people are evil. This, the hope is to raise another generation of folks who will not accept others. Especially, I’m the face of demographic data that says the Faction is dying out.

As Reagan said, “ You do not catch gay.”

What reading about positive stories and tragic stories of being a woman, gay, whatever does is make gold more understanding, empathetic, and accepting. The Faction cannot have that happen.

The fact you have not read the book Dr. Butler is part of the point. The book is written from the point of view of a 5th grade girl facing 5th grade girl issues. It is not meant for you. The people it is meant for can no longer read it in Florida Schools.

I wonder if Tobias Wolff’s book This Boy’s Life is also banned. Same basic narrative from the point of view if a boy.

I did not like it when I read it in school, but I respect it.

I hear Gov m. DeSantis is set to announce his Presidential Candidacy when the FL Legislative Session ends.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Sub theme

Blue fish. We have to ban these evil books that seek to pervert our children.

Here is his words

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis called accusations his administration banned books a “hoax.” However, he started a Wednesday press conference with a video spotlighting books his administration had indeed banned.

“A lot of what's been going on is an attempt to create a political narrative. And it's a false political narrative,” the Republican governor said. “That's bad enough as it is, I guess, but for me, the important thing is, that's a false narrative in service of using our schools for indoctrination rather than education.”
The FL legislature passed this, not DeSantis. Agreed this is a poorly conceived law.


Now a portion of the people who object to books like Are you there God, have no problem with their kids watching Clint Eastwood’s Unforgiven, or viewing Winchester 73.
There is a difference between it being in school and being ok’d by parents.

I would object to “unforgiven” being shown in elementary classes or being available in an elementary school library.

Violence okay, cussing and racism okay, beating humans to death okay, whores okay, and sons killing fathers when brother kills that son okay.
Really? Who said that?

Natural human biology that kids are going through in real time with the cultural backdrop of what it means to be going through it; bad.
And who said that?

I do get that some folks (on both sides of the debate) have pretty bizarre ideas of what is a “cultural backdrop” and do question why limited class time needs to be spent on making sure every subculture is given time in elementary school classes.


The David in a 12 grade art class covering the Renaissance; bad. Why? Obstinately, because genitalia is shown. I shall refrain from my speculation as to why.

Am I being forgetful? Wasn’t the argument over David in an elementary class, not a 12th grade class? Huge difference in what is appropriate where.

I will not refrain from speculation why the Republican Party has a faction doubling down on this. It is Social Engineering from the far right to teach sex is evil, women are dirty, trans and gay people are evil. This, the hope is to raise another generation of folks who will not accept others. Especially, I’m the face of demographic data that says the Faction is dying out.

I think you are incorrect. It’s a reaction to liberal educators forcing their agenda on ever younger students. I can find no redeeming value in subjecting school kids to “drag queen story hour” or trying to normalize fringe behavior.

I will grant that this response is in my mind overreacting, but the lefts response to it is also overreacting.

There should be some sort of age appropriate standard to the curriculum.



As Reagan said, “ You do not catch gay.”

What reading about positive stories and tragic stories of being a woman, gay, whatever does is make gold more understanding, empathetic, and accepting. The Faction cannot have that happen.

The fact you have not read the book Dr. Butler is part of the point. The book is written from the point of view of a 5th grade girl facing 5th grade girl issues. It is not meant for you. The people it is meant for can no longer read it in Florida Schools.

And that is unfortunate. It’s also unfortunate that as you explained before, it’s hard to write a law that covers all exceptions, and if the educational establishment had not let a bunch of crap in in the first place, you wouldn’t have seen the impetus to pass laws like this. The folks you are defending fell flat on their face, then doubled down. Why do the majority of people elect the folks that passed the law? I don’t buy it’s defense of racism, I do buy it’s a reaction to the other side going too far.

I wonder if Tobias Wolff’s book This Boy’s Life is also banned. Same basic narrative from the point of view if a boy.

I doubt it under the section stating no discussion of menstruation.

Yet another book on conflicted youth I haven’t read, and have no desire to.


I did not like it when I read it in school, but I respect it.

What is seeming to be going on here is more an objection to demands that certain subjects be made part of classes at early points. While I have no issue with a copy of Gray’s Anatomy (the medical anatomy atlas, not the TV show) I can guarantee that if you gave it to elementary kids, large portions would cause issues, like nightmares, and parents would be upset if you had it there in 2nd grade. In 10th grade biology class, whole different group, and wholly different reaction. It would not be an appropriate elementary school library book, even though it is not objectionable material.

Early Points? Book bans are happening in High Schools and Middle School.

To answer my own question, I cannot find Thus Boy’s Life has been banned in any FL School district. Yet, it discusses the physical manifestations of puberty, sexual attraction, among other themes.


To place this in context, I have offered the compromise of putting books on a parental consent list.

I did not just make that up. My school district handles this subject through that manner. My Wife had to get parental consent. She did, and her and her mom read it together.

That is the best practice. Parents and children using media it are to learn and grow.

I doubt what you fear about Grey’s would happen. 2nd grades would not read it because of the density. I read my adopted mom’s med books (she had left over from nursing school) in elementary school.

We are not talking about Gray’s and second grades. We are taking about a book written about a 5th grader going through 5th grader things.

Give 2nd graders access to Gray’s. They will not read it. What they will read is stuff that 2nd graders read. A See Spot Run book with two best friends being a red Rex and pink Ruff is not sexually explicit, pornography.

A book describing what girls go through written for and from that point of view is not harmful.

Your false equivalency cannot make it so.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Early Points? Book bans are happening in High Schools and Middle School.

Yes they are. Mainly as an overreaction to others agenda plays.

To answer my own question, I cannot find Thus Boy’s Life has been banned in any FL School district. Yet, it discusses the physical manifestations of puberty, sexual attraction, among other themes.


To place this in context, I have offered the compromise of putting books on a parental consent list.
That might have worked, but face it, in this day of not telling parents about what is a medical diagnosis (gender dysphoria) and treatments started by noncustodial adults, the left and the education establishment have lost a lot of good will and trust. Put it this way, what are the odds the school would actually follow your suggestion?

I did not just make that up. My school district handles this subject through that manner. My Wife had to get parental consent. She did, and her and her mom read it together.
And you don’t think things have changed in 10-15 years?

That is the best practice. Parents and children using media it are to learn and grow.
I agree. But that’s not what was going on there.

I doubt what you fear about Grey’s would happen. 2nd grades would not read it because of the density. I read my adopted mom’s med books (she had left over from nursing school) in elementary school.
It’s an example of age appropriate matter.

We are not talking about Gray’s and second grades. We are taking about a book written about a 5th grader going through 5th grader things.
Yes, and I’ve agreed that it is reasonable.

Give 2nd graders access to Gray’s. They will not read it. What they will read is stuff that 2nd graders read. A See Spot Run book with two best friends being a red Rex and pink Ruff is not sexually explicit, pornography.
Until the teacher says this book is to be used in my class- put a gray’s or Netter anatomic dissection of the musculoskeletal system slide up in a second grade class on muscles… what happens? We have plenty of evidence that some educators do this, and parents have no say in it

A book describing what girls go through written for and from that point of view is not harmful.
I’d agree with that. Would it be appropriate to mandate the boys read it? Yet you seem to be saying that everyone should be exposed to transgender angst under the guise of “empathy”. I don’t think empathy is learned by reading about boys doing BJ’s on other boys, for example.

Your false equivalency cannot make it so.

lol

You object to folks labeling you. Yet you do it all the time. Your initial quoted post was that all republicans are for banning some items due to being racist/sexist. I try and explain it’s not, and then you label the whole thing as “false equivalency”

You are not that much younger than I. You are not any more educated than I am. You are certainly more knowledgeable with regards to the law. I suspect I’m more knowledgeable about growth and development.

It isn’t “false equivalency”. I do agree with you that some of these bans are overreaching and wrong and not in the American tradition; but if you don’t think there is some justification for a counter reaction to the schools, you are not paying attention.

You can call me what you want short of Kid.

Like I have not called you a saw bones.

I do not call Dr. Easter horse doctor.

If you want to come on here and call gay people perverts, abominations, and the down fall of culture. I will call you a bigot.

If you want to call yourself Libertarian while advocating for big government controlling what we read, what adults we have consenting sex with, and the states power to force pregnancy to term. I am going to say you are not a Libertarian.

How about address the argument. I did not call you names. I addressed your rebuttal.

It is a false equivalency because 2nd graders are not going to read or try to check out Gray’s.

A high reader 4th grader might. We had a heavy reading program in KY schools. I was reading 12 grade books on the 6th grade. That was a good thing.

No one ever tried nor wanted to keep me from a book. I wonder how many of these people screaming over a book with a gay positive character cares their 13 year old boy gets a Playboy?

Thank you for agreeing.

I bet there is a good decade plus change between us. I have no problem saying you are more educated than I.

Let me put it to you this way. You can call me a no good, goat molesting, inbred son of a whore. That is fine. I will not let the Faction call me boy anymore then you would assuming we within 5 years of one another.

There was a direct correlation between those who read and exceeding in reading in my secondary education classes to productive citizens compared to the ones who were not reading.

Finally, I do not think the political motivations of this wing of Republican Party deny it. Note. I make no speculation on the motivations of individual parents.

I have no issue speculating on the motivations of the Party and Governor setting up a Presidential run needing MAGA voters to get through the Primary.

you really need to get over this overly sensitive stage

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
you really need to get over this overly sensitive stage

Good God!
Puberty struck late.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
you really need to get over this overly sensitive stage

Good God!
Puberty struck late.

Junior just has a massive inferiority complex.....might be from puberty arriving so late

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
you really need to get over this overly sensitive stage

Good God!
Puberty struck late.

Junior just has a massive inferiority complex.....might be from puberty arriving so late

I think the reality of the situation is that you are over the hill and in decline while Lheym is much closer to being in the prime of his life. Looks an awful lot like envy to me. Who can blame you at your advanced stage of degradation?

There is nothing wrong with being older.

Worse case scenario I out live JTex.

Best case scenario he lives long enough to call me old.

I do not envy nor particular look forward to being old. It is rough. Aging is slowly having everything taken from you.

I fully realize I have to die. The concept of death does not bother me. I think aging was meant to prepare or make folks accepting of death.

JTex problem is I do not agree with him, and he is afraid. So, he is okay with banning books and art. Since I do not agree with him, and can demonstrate why he is wrong he has to attack.

Notice the ones that started are the old men.

Jtex, Doggaboy, Dr Easter called us old women when he never answered our questions. He still has not answers my questing on the last thread he turned into an abortion debate. I did answer all of his.

None of these gentlemen would permit me to do to them what they try to do to me with age.

President Biden and most of the Faction have one thing in common age. Yet, they love to condemn him to the old folks home with dementia.

They cannot argue but can yell that they are loosing demographic. So, we must reengineer society through these public school attacks to raise the next generation of Faction MAGA folks.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
There is nothing wrong with being older.

Worse case scenario I out live JTex.

Best case scenario he lives long enough to call me old.

I do not envy nor particular look forward to being old. It is rough. Aging is slowly having everything taken from you.

I fully realize I have to die. The concept of death does not bother me. I think aging was meant to prepare or make folks accepting of death.

JTex problem is I do not agree with him, and he is afraid. So, he is okay with banning books and art. Since I do not agree with him, and can demonstrate why he is wrong he has to attack.

Notice the ones that started are the old men.

Jtex, Doggaboy, Dr Easter called us old women when he never answered our questions. He still has not answers my questing on the last thread he turned into an abortion debate. I did answer all of his.

None of these gentlemen would permit me to do to them what they try to do to me with age.

President Biden and most of the Faction have one thing in common age. Yet, they love to condemn him to the old folks home with dementia.

Nothing wrong with being old at all, it is a stage of life we all go through if we are lucky enough.

Belittling someone for being young, or old makes little sense. I am sticking it to the old geezer crew lately to point out the absurdity of them riding you because of your age.

Those old bastards are pretty much my age. The difference is in attitude.

I tire of the "when I was a boy..." line of thinking.

The only constant in my life has been change, pretty true for most folks I think. Yearning for the way things were in the past does nothing positive.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
There is nothing wrong with being older.

Worse case scenario I out live JTex.

Best case scenario he lives long enough to call me old.

I do not envy nor particular look forward to being old. It is rough. Aging is slowly having everything taken from you.

I fully realize I have to die. The concept of death does not bother me. I think aging was meant to prepare or make folks accepting of death.

JTex problem is I do not agree with him, and he is afraid. So, he is okay with banning books and art. Since I do not agree with him, and can demonstrate why he is wrong he has to attack.

Notice the ones that started are the old men.

Jtex, Doggaboy, Dr Easter called us old women when he never answered our questions. He still has not answers my questing on the last thread he turned into an abortion debate. I did answer all of his.

None of these gentlemen would permit me to do to them what they try to do to me with age.

President Biden and most of the Faction have one thing in common age. Yet, they love to condemn him to the old folks home with dementia.

Nothing wrong with being old at all, it is a stage of life we all go through if we are lucky enough.

Belittling someone for being young, or old makes little sense. I am sticking it to the old geezer crew lately to point out the absurdity of them riding you because of your age.

Those old bastards are pretty much my age. The difference is in attitude.

I tire of the "when I was a boy..." line of thinking.

The only constant in my life has been change, pretty true for most folks I think. Yearning for the way things were in the past does nothing positive.

quote:

Jtex, Doggaboy, Dr Easter called us old women

Please cite, exactly where and when in this forum,
much less this thread, MR.prevericating, maleducated, barrister,
(there,now, you have been called something you can be sensitive about )
that "Daggaboy" ever referred to either LHeym500 or I presume skb,
since he would appear to be the other part of "us" in this instance,
in such term (s).

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
Did he actually say that and, if so, in what context and what makes it evil?

Of course he didn't say that but Heym's misleading post would make one think that.

The truth is, the book has not been or has ever been banned short of being removed from the elementary level library in Gilbert, AZ in 1980.
It has been challenged numerous times but banned, no.
In some States, since it's publication in 1970, it has been on the parental consent list. That is, a student would need parental permission to check the book out.

All the Florida proposal (note, proposal, not law) establishes is that classroom discussion of sexuality, menstruation, etc, be relegated to the 6th-12th grade levels.

Nothing would keep any parent from allowing their child to read the book - these people ever hear of Amazon or a book store?

The outcry is that what if a girl, younger then 6th grade, gets her period and is scared and confused about what is happening with her body?
I get that, but is the sole responsibility of sex ed being laid at the feet of the schools and teachers or is this a more appropriate topic to be first taught at home?
If an early bloomer starts menstruation and legitimately has no idea of it, then that's negligence on the part of the parents.

I did address the “false equivalency” in that the attempts are using a flawed methodology (laws) to deal with a personnel issue.

They have, in effect, a problem with insolent employees who are refusing to submit to authority- the community/parents.

The problem is the system is being unresponsive in dealing with issues effectively. Sending grade schoolers to drag queen story hour is fine for parents who elect to. The majority of parents find it inappropriate to varying degrees. The majority of parents want age appropriate items in their kids schools. If you want your child to have access to above age items that are more sensitive, that’s up to you… you read your mom’s medical books, not finding them in the school library.

Having erotic literature in schools is not part of the school process. Frankly, too many educators have an agenda and push the envelope there. It’s not the school’s job to provide Playboy (which is really pretty mild by today’s standards). While Shakespeare has some rather ribald plays, you can get the gist of his work in class with the less objectionable plays, and leave the more racy ones to the students to seek out on their own.

What do you say to all the leftist banning of Huck Finn? The bans were over the N word, the actual story line is anti racist.

The point being is that there are plenty of legitimate works that are appropriate to age, so pushing the boundaries is not needed. Why have people pushing to have “50 shades of gray” in the school library, and end up getting an expected reaction and then having something appropriate like margret banned?

My recollection was that in elementary school, the library was organized into age groups, with only the upper grades even going to the Dewey decimal system. It was significantly less extensive (they had several copies of popular books, and less selection) compared to middle school or high school.

The high school mimicked the public library and had inter library loan available, but you had to get both a teacher, a librarian, and parental approval for that (because folks tried to get things like high times)….

Even the public library had librarians who would keep kids out of certain areas back then (only 20 some years ago).

I agree the ban rules go too far, because it’s impossible to write a law like that which has the appropriate nuances.

Unfortunately, the left courts this by having defiant individuals that are protected in the name of politics and “rights”.

You can learn how to deal with issues without having examples of your specific issue being given to you. Early education is supposed to be general.

If you want items outside the school’s area (like nuclear physics in high school - been there, done that) you need to work at getting that outside of school… and that is educational in and of itself as well.

quote:

JTex problem is I do not agree with him, and he is afraid. So, he is okay with banning books and art. Since I do not agree with him, and can demonstrate why he is wrong he has to attack.

You are Hitler than,squirrel shit!

Age appropriate junior! Age appropriate!

Demonstrate? Really? You have offered nothing but your opinion on this issue and your opinion "demonstrates" that you are pretty goofy!

The only thing I'm afraid of is idiots like you getting in any position of authority.....

I see no cited response has been brought forward.