This morning's NYT:

The right often uses Hollywood as a punching bag: “It’s all wokeism; it’s not friendly to conservatives.” What do you think of that criticism?

Well, it’s true, but so what?

What part is true?

The wokeism and that they’re trying to be goody-goody. Let’s not fool ourselves. They talk about the environment and all that stuff, look at which studio has solar panels on top of the rooftops. None of them. But the bottom line is, Hollywood at least is out there talking about the right issues: women’s rights and equal rights. This is all good.

You grew up in Austria after World War II. You had exposure to people who believed in fascism. So when you hear people say Donald Trump is a burgeoning fascist or the Republican Party is authoritarian, does that sound alarmist to you, or do you think there’s truth to it?

I cannot tell you if Trump is prejudiced. I think that he made moves and said things that sound like it, but I don’t know what’s in his heart. We need a leader who has the energy to bring people together, who sells that idea and who is convincing enough to bring people together because they want to work together.

Do you see anyone out there with the potential to be that unifying figure?

No. Someone has to come forward and talk about rebuilding the country in a great way and about the things that are really important rather than, “Should we have a bathroom for trans people?” All the little battles just hold us up.

AMEN, Arnold.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/life...cff6a4a08c820&ei=114

Christians are Disturbed When They Discover Jesus Was Woke
Story by Riley Brown •
1d

https://youtu.be/kGOVops3pYs?si=FL0iGxtaFukhBraL&t=15

In this thought-provoking video, we explore the fascinating journey of Christians who have recently come to terms with the idea that Jesus may have embraced social justice and progressive values during his time on Earth.

===========
AMEN, ME
===========

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:


1. So when you hear people say Donald Trump is a burgeoning fascist or the Republican Party is authoritarian, does that sound alarmist to you, or do you think there’s truth to it?

2.We need a leader who has the energy to bring people together, who sells that idea and who is convincing enough to bring people together because they want to work together.

3. Do you see anyone out there with the potential to be that unifying figure?

4. No. Someone has to come forward and talk about rebuilding the country in a great way and about the things that are really important. All the little battles just hold us up.

AMEN, Arnold.

I quoted just part of your post to narrow your main theme a bit.

Sentence by sentence:
1. Yes, it is alarmist because it's true.

2. Trump is such a "leader" as you describe, for the tribe.

3. Unifying? No. His power is in division, and he's not going to give that up.

4. I don't know how that is possible, bipartisan. Sure, there are people who qualify. I think few would listen. Trump, for example talks about "rebuilding the country in a great way and about the things that are really important". And we all know, or should know, who he is talking to and what things are really important to them, that Tribe.

Take a church, for example, one in particular whose congregation are Trump supporters. What's the chance of them hiring a preacher who says Jesus was Woke, and we should follow his example? Zero - and that preacher would give one sermon at most, possibly not even that before the walk-out. They would fire him, and hire a preacher who preaches what they want to hear, amen.

It's the same with Trump, as they deem "leader". He's saying what his base wants to hear.

So, I'm very skeptical that the problem/answer is in leadership. It is certain that millions of people, mostly Trump's base, are stirred by his messages of tribalism, division, violence, culture war, nationalism, Christo-fascism, authoritarianism, etc. I use the word "stirred" because he didn't introduce all that to them. He exploits what's already there. "Stirred" also applies reciprocally. He stirs those who see what he's really about.

In the context of unifying "leadership" emerging, as you suggest:

Here's an interesting, related article. Note: I put two statements of Gingrich in Bold because they are especially telling, and ironic, because this "leader" and Trump thinks it's ok, and so does his base:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...ad9ad077789d9c&ei=18

The 2024 Presidenial Race Is Over
Story by Carver Malone • 22h

Former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich said, “This race is over.”

A Washington Post and ABC poll shows Trump currently leads Biden by a whopping 10 points.

“Donald Trump will be the nominee,” Gingrich continued. “They might as well quit having the various debates, cause they don’t work. They’re not helping anybody.”

“I think the Republican National Committee should cancel the future debates, and say, ‘look, we recognize the objective fact that Trump will be the nominee. We want to work with him,’” Gingrich said.

“And then the next big hurdle is a totally corrupt judicial system, which is trying every way it can to deny the American people the right to have the candidate that they’re choosing.”

rump agreed with this analysis. “They have to stop the debates,” rump said. “Because it is just bad for the Republican Party. They are not going anywhere.”

“There is not going to be a breakout candidate,” Trump said. “I am very concerned about the RNC not being able to do their job.”

Gingrich said Democrats are trying to handicap his electoral chances through “doing everything they can legally , because they can’t do anything politically.”

Trump skipped the first two GOP debates.

Our fried Boarkiller and I used to disagree about a leader for our nation. I believed we did and still do need a "Uniter" and he leaned more towards the idea of simply a good administrator or executive.

I still believe we need a figurehead, a commander in chief, a head of state to rally behind. Truthfully, it seems to me like modern America closely resembles the Biblical Tower of Babel.

I love my freedom and liberties as much as anyone here and live where I do in part because of that, but I like the idea of someone being able to gather us all and say, "we are going to all prioritize this and work to a solution!" Or, "this is a hazard for us all and we are going to achieve victory!".

I can't get excited enough from out here in rural AK to go fight on a distant shore or contribute financially to some petty, inscrutable fringe burr in someone's saddle, because those three folks half a globe away say so on the Internet.

quote:

I still believe we need a figurehead, a commander in chief, a head of state to rally behind. Truthfully, it seems to me like modern America closely resembles the Biblical Tower of Babel.

I worry about that.

I'm thinking Trump, for example, just much more effective. A populist, demagogue, flawed to the core HAS shown us what is possible.

I'm not a religious person, but given the evidence, I think a person who would qualify as the anti-Christ could reign.

IMO, Trump is an anti-Christ. See how he has hijacked the GOP and Christianity, as a matter of stunning fact.

No "leader" can gain traction, from the Right, unless he plays into what Christianity "knows" as truth. It's all Christofascism from there.

I think a charismatic leader is a dangerous thing right now. Too many Americans are guppies. IMO, a person who is qualified through years of experience and service in governance is best insurance against the demagogue syndrome evident today.

Hillary Clinton returns to spotlight with dire warning about Trump: 'We should believe him'
Story by Sky Palma • 1h

Former First Lady, Secretary of State and 2016 presidential candidate Hillary Clinton used a tribute to the late Sen. Dianne Feinstein Monday to direct a jab at Donald Trump.

In an op-ed published at The Washington Post, Clinton said the California Senator passed away during a time "of political violence and threats to the rule of law."

According to Clinton, the "insurrectionist mob" that sparked the events of Jan. 6, 2021 is very much still present.

"Former president Donald Trump, whose incendiary rhetoric has repeatedly incited violence, recently said Army Gen. Mark A. Milley, the just-retired chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, had committed 'a treasonous act' for which 'in times gone by, the punishment would have been DEATH!' As President Biden noted, while most Republicans may not agree, the silence is deafening," Clinton writes.

Clinton also pointed to worries that if Trump regains the presidency, he'll gut checks on executive power, use the government to pursue his political opponents and govern as if he's above the law. "We should believe him when he tells us what he’ll do next," Clinton writes.

====================================================================

I posted the excerpts and link to the above article because H. Clinton is an example of someone with years of experience in governance, yet she lost the election but won the majority of the popular vote. She was qualified for the office. Trump was clearly not qualified. Trump had charisma. She did not.

She won the popular vote despite years of propaganda, lies, conspiracy theories, concerted effort to discredit and damage her with fake weaponized investigations and a little bad luck. Practically none of the basis for hate and loathing has held up to scrutiny of fact. It was all emotional intuition, which is where vulnerability to a demagogue lies - in The Zone where "there is no reality beyond first person observation", as Bill Leeper said.

It wouldn't be an unreasonable presumption that lies evidently sway people, in The Zone, and the party of Trump has demonstrated that very well. The problem with a demagogue, a charismatic persuasive leader, and the methods (means to end) used by him and supporters/allies, should be as clear as Crater Lake, as deep as it is.

Crater Lake is a good analogy for "The Zone" I'm talking about - the demagogue, the means to an end, the lies and persuasive propaganda, all on the surface. But soon, as the waters get deeper, "The Zone" becomes something where the light don't shine.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

I still believe we need a figurehead, a commander in chief, a head of state to rally behind. Truthfully, it seems to me like modern America closely resembles the Biblical Tower of Babel.

I worry about that.

I'm thinking Trump, for example, just much more effective. A populist, demagogue, flawed to the core HAS shown us what is possible.

I'm not a religious person, but given the evidence, I think a person who would qualify as the anti-Christ could reign.

IMO, Trump is an anti-Christ. See how he has hijacked the GOP and Christianity, as a matter of stunning fact.

No "leader" can gain traction, from the Right, unless he plays into what Christianity "knows" as truth. It's all Christofascism from there.

I think a charismatic leader is a dangerous thing right now. Too many Americans are guppies. IMO, a person who is qualified through years of experience and service in governance is best insurance against the demagogue syndrome evident today.

Your worry is well founded but,......

We've had to rely on strong individuals for centuries haven't we? A king a Cesar prophets and generals. The East looks to Bhudda and Mohammed, the West to Jesus. If the municipality suffers a catastrophe we look to the Mayor, if the state suffers a catastrophe the governor take the podium.

I AM swayed by your POV, Scott.

What you say is true.

I think the influence/effect Trump has had on everyone, some attracted, some repulsed, few in-between, is a fact that ought to be learned from, taken into account regarding "leaders".

You know, it's an ironic thing that conservatives say they cherish individualism, free thought and expression, and think of themselves as free will agents fully capable of critical thought, bias assessment, yet Trump has manipulated them nefariously and/or egregiously - WITH THEIR CONSENT. (I can't think of bigger more noxious words to describe it.)

Many say they don't trust the media, for example. Well, I don't trust leaders, especially populist demagogues. A real leader does not fixate on or promote tribalism.

And it's getting worse. The shit-storm Trump has caused will continue to get far worse, before better.

Reminder - he's still the leading candidate of the GOP, and still gaining traction.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...0d8df223709ea&ei=124

Trump's violent rhetoric threatens democracy to its core, Pt. 1

With Donald Trump's threats, just this past week on everyone from prosecutors and judges to the media and military leaders, he continues to promise a presidency bent on retribution and is gaining support among Republicans for his malevolent vision by the day. Jonathan Capehart discusses with Molly Jong Fast, Brian Klaas and Miles Taylor.

I gently defended a friend of mine here to another friend who is law enforcement. They said, " he doesn't like me, he's mean to me!" Or really a mature, adult version of. I replied, "You are law enforcement and he's very American. It's natural he doesn't like you, no red blooded American man like to have any authority over him."

I agree, we shouldn't like or trust those in authority over us, regardless our belief in the need for them.

Scott, I don't think you are understanding me. Of course, it could be that I'm not understanding you. Maybe you are talking about an authoritarian unifying us all whether we like it or not.

In society there's always going to be some "authority" to respect or abide, or both. That was set up that way by the Founders in the Constitution and rule of law. Then there's the more decency and respect aspect of the Social Contract, which some don't respect at all or even acknowledge its existence.

We're still talking about the "leadership" or "figurehead" mentioned by you and/or "unifying figure" in the OP.

Of course, there are plenty of people who agree with you, namely all the MAGA cult, and many more. There should be no doubt that the last thing they want is to be "unified" with liberals except by utter dominance. I don't think that's what you mean.

(Synonyms for DOMINANCE: domination, supremacy, dominion, sovereignty, reign, superiority, hegemony, or having the authority to influence or control. the disposition of an individual to assert control in dealing with others.)

Here's something new to me. If it's true, then this is what I'm talking about. Also, Michael Flynn and Steve Bannon would agree with the concept, the means and the end. Of course Trump agrees. You and others may want to poo-poo this and say it's fringe. It's as fringe as MAGA is fringe, or Trump's domination of the GOP is fringe.

It's my contention that there is no unifying figurehead that will satisfy the far right except an authoritarian or fascist. They want a Second Coming, but while they wait, they'll settle for a Second Reconning, Trump's second term, to fix it all.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...7d16f5c74a703a&ei=67

These MAGA Republicans long for a 'Red Caesar' to 'impose a dictatorship' on America

=================================

There are several articles on the topic "Red Caesar". https://www.theguardian.com/wo...licans-extreme-right Sun 1 Oct 2023 10.00 EDT

Argument for a ‘red Caesar’ to rule US may seem esoteric but conservative thinktank behind idea has connections to Trump