I have to wonder and it perplexes me when I see endorsements and support otherwise for trump.
Why?
What does Musk see that others don't?

Question:
Not leading anyone at all, I really do want to know what participants here think.
Other than policy what are Trump's attractive qualities? Is he charismatic?

Poll has nothing to do with political leaning or history/ previous experience with the guy. Just pure, non partisan is Trump attractive or not.

Choices:
Yes, Trump is charismatic
No, Trump isn't charismatic
Trump has leadership qualities
Trump has no leadership qualities

 

The obvious answer is Yes. Despite rational objections Trump is yes to both questions in the poll.

Especially, charisma.

He has been president once and is again a major part candidate. It took charisma to bluff 30-45 percent of the population to believe he was unduly denied reelection and move others to violence to keep power.

A person not to recognize that is either a lier or a fool.

To me, he is not and has never been. However, to a large segment of the population, he must at least seem so. Regards, Bill

Much like anthrax is charismatic...

quote:

charismatic

It's the primary characteristic of a cult leader.

But it's not really an asset as POTUS.

You three aren't helping.

So what is it?

Id really like to know what people like those that favor Trump, ( no I don't mean oppose Harris,) think it see.

I get the Lesser of two evils thing.

Well, Scott, I hope you get a satisfactory answer. I too would like to know.

You're asking beyond the usual answers such as policy, or liberal hate.

I think you're asking for answers that are impossible to give by those afflicted by Trump's charisma. It's the same with any demagogue and supporter relationship. It's psycho. And those who are susceptible are incapable of the self-analysis to answer the question honestly.

Just saying - it's answerable only from the outside looking in, just like a cult.



This is really an interesting question. But I'm thinking that it can't be answered without speculation:

quote:

What does Musk see that others don't?

Trump is charismatic. So was Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, and a host of other villains and cult leaders.

What perplexes me specifically in this topic is that I don't see the usual examples of charisma or attraction.

In JFK or Churchill, Reagan and Washington there were tangible virtues to attach yourself to.

I think George Clooney has charisma maybe no so much Brad Pitt.

I can't say I ever heard Newsome from California speak, but it seems he has charisma. I think Obama and Clinton had charisma.

Thatcher! She must have had charisma.

I personally would not/ will not ever listen to Hitler or Stalin, I don't want to hear their voice nor read their words, but as was said, they must have been charismatic.

I don't think anyone has ever seen me denigrate or belittle a Trump supporter and I won't here so I hope some folks will offer up their beliefs or feelings.

I don't think it takes a dime's worth of charisma to get followers who think you're all that. Like the Nazi propagandist said, just tell people what they want to hear, works anywhere, any time.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
To me, he is not and has never been. However, to a large segment of the population, he must at least seem so. Regards, Bill

There were American service men who married Japanese women and learned to speak Japanese.
Japanese men were then puzzled as to why the Americans spoke like women.

Trump whines like a cranky woman. Not charismatic at all.

Yep hes charismatic. I dont like his particular style of charisma, but you have to recognise its there. Its a divisive form

Im trying to think of a charismatic figure that wasn't some form of psychopathic deviant though and I cant. It might be a trait to watch out for.

Tom Cruize is charismatic.

P diddy obviously was.

Its the only reason we elected Jacinda Ardern.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Yep hes charismatic. I dont like his particular style of charisma, but you have to recognise its there. Its a divisive form

Im trying to think of a charismatic figure that wasn't some form of psychopathic deviant though and I cant. It might be a trait to watch out for.

Tom Cruize is charismatic.

P diddy obviously was.

Its the only reason we elected Jacinda Ardern.

It makes you question the intelligence of the average voter and the validity of democracy as a form of government.

quote:

Originally posted by Grizzly Adams1:

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Yep hes charismatic. I dont like his particular style of charisma, but you have to recognise its there. Its a divisive form

Im trying to think of a charismatic figure that wasn't some form of psychopathic deviant though and I cant. It might be a trait to watch out for.

Tom Cruize is charismatic.

P diddy obviously was.

Its the only reason we elected Jacinda Ardern.

It makes you question the intelligence of the average voter and the validity of democracy as a form of government.

How would you rate Trudeau?

I have a theory that he and our dear ex leader are secretly bonking.

quote:

Originally posted by Grizzly Adams1:
[QUOTE]

It makes you question the intelligence of the average voter and the validity of democracy as a form of government.

Ahh, a lot of people need someone to get behind.

The Israelites had judges but that wasn't good enough so they demanded a king.

Moses went up the hill for an overnight'er and came back down to the Golden Calf.

America had Washington, England had Churchill, Iraq had Sadaam. Lots of folks claim to be free, liberated, but they follow televangelist, politicians, motivational speakers, politicians and generals.

So, I want to know, what am I missing? As always I readily admit it can well be that I'm wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
What perplexes me specifically in this topic is that I don't see the usual examples of charisma or attraction.

The Founders knew:

https://www.washingtonpost.com...gogues-civic-virtue/

When they drafted the Constitution, the Founders’ greatest fear was that a populist demagogue would flatter the mob, subvert American democracy and establish authoritarian rule. “The only path to a subversion of the republican system of the Country is, by flattering the prejudices of the people, and exciting their jealousies and apprehensions, to throw affairs into confusion, and bring on civil commotion,” Alexander Hamilton wrote to George Washington in 1792. “When a man unprincipled in private life[,] desperate in his fortune, bold in his temper … is seen to mount the hobby horse of popularity … It may justly be suspected that his object is to throw things into confusion that he may ‘ride the storm and direct the whirlwind.’”

Some of the authors of the Bible knew how demagoguery works when they warned of the anti-christ.

It could be argued that the devil is a demagogue.

dem·a·gogue
/ˈdeməˌɡäɡ/
noun
a political leader who seeks support by appealing to the desires and prejudices of ordinary people rather than by using rational argument.

What is an example of a demagogue?
Modern demagogues include Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, Huey Long, Father Coughlin, and Joseph McCarthy, all of whom built mass followings the same way that Cleon did: by exciting the passions of the masses against customs and norms of the aristocratic elites of their times.

Demagogue - Wikipedia

Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Demagogue

Yes, he's repulsive to many of us.

Yet he and his act are attractive to many.

The question - is that due to charisma in some form?

It's clear to most (hopefully) that he's a trickster, a deceiver, a liar, and has ill intent on yuge scale.

Yet, many view worldly affairs as a constant contest between evil and good.

With that mindset they choose Trump as their warrior for the triumph of Good.

Such adherents view themselves as Good, Godly, Virtuous Patriots who make good choices accordingly, of course in the worldly battle to thwart evil.

So, why is it that Trump is the avatar warrior to fix it all?

IMO, linking it to charisma is missing the point.

quote:

Originally posted by Grizzly Adams1:

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Yep hes charismatic. I dont like his particular style of charisma, but you have to recognise its there. Its a divisive form

Im trying to think of a charismatic figure that wasn't some form of psychopathic deviant though and I cant. It might be a trait to watch out for.

It makes you question the intelligence of the average voter and the validity of democracy as a form of government.

It makes one question the concept of Free Will, especially in religious context, but perhaps also in secular to a lesser degree.

What is Trump's power of persuasion?

It's obviously more than charisma.

IOW, how did Trump even get his foot in blocking the door?

His particular recipe didn't cause the hunger for his unwholesome pie. He just knew how to bake and exploit it. Now it's a mutual feeding frensy.

And here I thought a characteristic of populist or demogogory was a charismatic leader or message.

His rizz doesn't work on me, but I can see how it effects others.. nearly as terrible as quemala rizz, which is unburdened by what has been and has a message of joy

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by Grizzly Adams1:

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Yep hes charismatic. I dont like his particular style of charisma, but you have to recognise its there. Its a divisive form

Im trying to think of a charismatic figure that wasn't some form of psychopathic deviant though and I cant. It might be a trait to watch out for.

It makes you question the intelligence of the average voter and the validity of democracy as a form of government.

It makes one question the concept of Free Will, especially in religious context, but perhaps also in secular to a lesser degree.

What is Trump's power of persuasion?

It's obviously more than charisma.

IOW, how did Trump even get his foot in blocking the door?

His particular recipe didn't cause the hunger for his unwholesome pie. He just knew how to bake and exploit it. Now it's a mutual feeding frensy.

Charisma aside, I know you wont like this, But the really big factor is his opponents cant offer anything remarkably better and risk making things worse for a good proportion of the population.

Also media in the form it takes offers not the truth. But a choice of which bias you wish to pick.
Its not new. I was stunned at watching the cowboy wars, and seeing how media getting behind Ike Clanton risked a second civil war and a change in law to prevent US troops being used for policing on US soil.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by Grizzly Adams1:

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Yep hes charismatic. I dont like his particular style of charisma, but you have to recognise its there. Its a divisive form

Im trying to think of a charismatic figure that wasn't some form of psychopathic deviant though and I cant. It might be a trait to watch out for.

It makes you question the intelligence of the average voter and the validity of democracy as a form of government.

It makes one question the concept of Free Will, especially in religious context, but perhaps also in secular to a lesser degree.

What is Trump's power of persuasion?

It's obviously more than charisma.

IOW, how did Trump even get his foot in blocking the door?

His particular recipe didn't cause the hunger for his unwholesome pie. He just knew how to bake and exploit it. Now it's a mutual feeding frensy.

Charisma aside, I know you wont like this, But the really big factor is his opponents cant offer anything remarkably better and risk making things worse for a good proportion of the population.

Also media in the form it takes offers not the truth. But a choice of which bias you wish to pick.
Its not new. I was stunned at watching the cowboy wars, and seeing how media getting behind Ike Clanton risked a second civil war and a change in law to prevent US troops being used for policing on US soil.

In my mind, there is a lot of truth here.

Trump always did have a nails-on-the-blackboard style to me. Even now, with all the manifest bad decisions and acts that can be laid at his feet, the left and its sycophants in the media have to exaggerate and lie about him.

A lot of his support is folks who feel they are being forced to tolerate things and pay for these things that they have no desire to support.

I don’t feel Trump is truly charismatic, but that he identifies himself with being able to solve certain issues and folks who don’t like these policies feel like they finally have a champion who gets it.

I didn't find a connection with the cowboy wars, media getting behind Ike Clanton and the risk of a second civil war and the posse-comitatus act.

But I found this:

quote:

a change in law to prevent US troops being used for policing on US soil.

https://www.brennancenter.org/...itatus-act-explained

The Posse Comitatus Act Explained

The law generally prevents the president from using the military as a domestic police force.

What are the origins of the Posse Comitatus Act?
The Posse Comitatus Act was passed in 1878, after the end of Reconstruction and the return of white supremacists to political power in both southern states and Congress. Through the law, Congress sought to ensure that the federal military would not be used to intervene in the establishment of Jim Crow in the former Confederacy.

Ike Clanton
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ike_Clanton#Later_life

Died June 1, 1887 (aged 39–40)
Springerville, Arizona Territory, United States
Cause of death Gunshot wound

When so much of what he says is so easy to see through I have to think its not a positive on his part which encourages people to follow him, but a fundamental weakness on the part of those who follow.

Ok got it slightly wrong. Chester Arthur wished to use the military but congress wouldn't allow it it seems.
The point being most of the wider discontent was whipped up by media and old-ish hatreds re- emerged.

As far as presidents go, in my lifetime, JFK was charismatic, so was Ronald Reagan. I can't think of any others who brought a lot of charisma to the table. I think it is worth noting, every person who is considered to be charismatic by his followers, is likely to be considered repugnant in equal measure by his detractors. Regards, Bill.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
As far as presidents go, in my lifetime, JFK was charismatic, so was Ronald Reagan. I can't think of any others who brought a lot of charisma to the table. I think it is worth noting, every person who is considered to be charismatic by his followers, is likely to be considered repugnant in equal measure by his detractors. Regards, Bill.

Not really buying your last. Charisma is an attraction. The first I saw of a "ruler"considered repugnant by their detractors was "W". Although popular with his party, "W" didn't have across the aisle appeal and it didn't take to many mistakes in his War on Terror for him to earn a Most Hated status from the left.
"W" had no charisma although was likeable. Neither Rumsfield or Cheney were even likeable.

JFK and Teddy Roosevelt could rally the troops and obviously had charisma.

I like John Adams a ton and I don't think he's given the credit he due, but the man had no charisma.

I think Bill missed Bill Clinton and Obama - bother highly charismatic persons

trump is a lot of things but charismatic isn't one of them.

I think his followers admire his grit. He is a never-say-die dude...he never gives up. That hasn't always been a positive attribute for him but it is not deniable and even I admire it in a weird sort of way. The assassination attempt is a perfect example. The guy gets freaking shot...and as they lead him off the stage with blood streaming down his face, he raises a fist and screams "Fight"....you have to kind of admire that.

The other thing that works in his favor is he keeps it simple. MAGA is the best campaign slogan of all time. Short, simple, fits on a hat, patriotic and easy to understand. Even if it is bullshit.