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Originally posted by ledvm:

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Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

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Originally posted by ledvm:

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Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

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Originally posted by ledvm:

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The wealthy are thriving in America

So you feel the need to bring them down? Take what they built for themselves. Make them provide more than 90% of the revenue going into the US Treasury?

And I thought the USA was the land of equality!?

What a joke Lane. No, I do not want to bring them down. Exactly what I hear you say. Time to get those ears checked. I built my business on catering to the wealthy, I sure don't want to bring them down. Quit saying it then. I never did, get those ears checked you old geezer.

The wealthy should not enjoy the tax breaks they do today and should pay income taxes based upon the wealth they have acquired.

They ARE paying a helluva lot of taxes. As shown 90% of the the revenue. Where do people get this notion that they don’t pay taxes? They pay a far lower rate than they should through exploiting loop holes and tax shelters. 1) who gets to decide that? You? 2) How in Sam Hill do you know what rate they all pay? And how do you account for all of the philanthropic contributions they make? That is my opinion, tax code will be legislated again soon. The numbers have been posted before, I linked to my Gov. paying 8.2% on 23 million in income, a far lower rate than I pay. That is wrong and should change. Philanthropic contributions are tax deductible, what more do you want?

The wealthy should contribute at a greater rate than those who struggle Who made that rule? Anyone who has ever claimed to have struggled should understand that. Empathy for your fellow man and all that kind of stuff. That is just it man…I have lived in the poorest bracket that exists. So have I and no way do struggling folks need more obsticles in their way.

because they have benefited from our society at a greater rate. They did it by ability. Since when has that become a crime? not a crime, but taxable. They pay them…in the tune of 90% of the Treasury revenue. How much blood do you want? I wan t them to pay at a rate commensurate with their income and remove the loop holes they exploit to avoid paying taxes. I have paid taxes my whole life outside of a few years where I showed a loss due to investing in my business, I'm not wealthy.

They are not victims. But they deserve to keep what is theirs like everyone else. Laissez-faire! The wealthy do deserve to keep much of what they have made, they also should contribute it a higher tax rate than those less fortunate. They do. But ALL should contribute. If you are living in poverty the very last thing you need is a tax bill. Why kick the little guy? Does it make you feel better?

A flat tax is not equality, a flat tax benefits those at the top and pushes the burden of funding the government onto the less fortunate.
I disagree but…use a graduated flat-tax. How is that in dispute? It most certainly favors the upper tax brackets and increases the tax burden on the lower brackets. How? It is all a % of earned/produced revenue. Percentage or not, you are pushing the burden on to the lower brackets with a flat tax. Making it hard for those of us who struggle.

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Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Paying tax is a personal responsibility and duty. Pay your fair share. If you use your personal wealth to become richer, then pay the tax on the liquidity you created from the "unrealised" or passive wealth.

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from each according to their abilities, to each according to their need

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Originally posted by ledvm:

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The wealthy are thriving in America

So you feel the need to bring them down? Take what they built for themselves. Make them provide more than 90% of the revenue going into the US Treasury?

And I thought the USA was the land of equality!?

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Originally posted by Nakihunter:
We are just asking the rich to return our blood you sucked for so long. Stop sucking our blood.

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Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

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Originally posted by JTEX:

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Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

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Originally posted by P. Jilek:

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Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

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Originally posted by P. Jilek:
It represents financial illiteracy, period. Anyone who would suggest it has no idea how finance and financial markets work. Anyone who would defend it doesn't either.

Why? Because finance and financial markets protect the people that make $100,000,000 a year? Right?

Explain.

OK, Mike.

1. Liquidity Issues
No Cash Flow: When gains are unrealized, the asset holder hasn't received any cash. Taxing these gains could create a situation where individuals or businesses might need to sell assets just to pay the tax. Not easy for assets that are not easily liquidated, like real estate or shares in a private company.

2. Valuation Challenges
Determining Value: Accurately determining the value of certain assets (like privately held companies, art, or real estate) can be complex and subjective. Frequent revaluations might be necessary, increasing administrative burdens and costs for both taxpayers and the government. Who determines the exact moment an asset is valued for this tax? Asset values can fluctuate wildly in one tax year. How does one constantly monitor that movement in price (as one would be required to do) in order to comply with this law?

3. Market Volatility
Fluctuating Asset Values: Asset values can fluctuate significantly over time. Taxing unrealized gains could result in individuals being taxed on gains that later disappear if the market declines. If the asset's value drops after taxes have been paid, it could lead to financial strain without a mechanism for recovery.

4. Administrative Complexity
Increased Bureaucracy: Implementing and enforcing a tax on unrealized gains would require significant new regulations and bureaucratic oversight, increasing the complexity of the tax system and the potential for errors and disputes.

5. Impact on Investment
Deterring Long-Term Investment: Investors would be discouraged from holding onto investments for the long term if they face regular taxation on unrealized gains. This could lead to more short-term trading and market instability, as well as potentially lower overall investment.

6. Legal and Constitutional Issues
Challenges to Implementation: In some jurisdictions, there may be legal or constitutional challenges to taxing unrealized gains, especially when our system is based on the realization principle.

7. Impact on Economic Behavior
Distorting Decisions: Such a tax might lead to economic behaviors aimed at avoiding taxation, such as less investment in certain types of assets or increased efforts to hide or underreport asset values.

8. Potential for Double Taxation
Future Realization Taxation: If an asset is eventually sold, the realized gain could be taxed again, leading to a situation where the same income is taxed twice — first when it's unrealized and then when it's realized.

Mike, I think I have explained it. Notice I did it without any expletives. Why don't you in turn give me an analysis of why it is a good idea and please explain the positive effects it will have macroeconomically. Please also refrain from swearing or name calling in your answer and pointing out that it is only going to be done to certain people who "deserve" it.

Well, I don't think you have explained it. And, guess what? I don't give a shit that you did it without expletives. You've puked out the usual economic mumbo jumbo bullshit that is typically relied upon by the super-rich and their republican enablers which nobody can understand and which is based on "Well, this could happen" or "such a tax might lead to" or blah blah blah when the bottom line is that you don't want the investment fund managers and the other robber barons to pay their fair share of taxes.

So as usual....nothing but ignorance and petty jealousy????

Poor Dumb Jim.

Man, I would love to be the target of this tax. But, my income doesn't make the cut.

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Originally posted by lavaca:
Who makes jobs? Is it the politician in DC? No. It's the businesspeople who start and grow businesses. Washington can help them do it, or Washington can throw up roadblocks. This is a major roadblock. Dumb policy.

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Originally posted by JTEX:

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Originally posted by lavaca:
Who makes jobs? Is it the politician in DC? No. It's the businesspeople who start and grow businesses. Washington can help them do it, or Washington can throw up roadblocks. This is a major roadblock. Dumb policy.

Have you ever got a job from a poor person?????

Wonder how many naki employs

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A flat tax is not equality, a flat tax benefits those at the top and pushes the burden of funding the government onto the less fortunate.

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Percentage or not, you are pushing the burden on to the lower brackets with a flat tax. Making it hard for those of us who struggle.

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Originally posted by ledvm:

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A flat tax is not equality, a flat tax benefits those at the top and pushes the burden of funding the government onto the less fortunate.

Nothing could be further from the truth. A flat tax is the epitome of equality. We have one person one vote…this makes every vote concerned about the financing of the government.

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Percentage or not, you are pushing the burden on to the lower brackets with a flat tax. Making it hard for those of us who struggle.

If you are making enough money to fund a household without government assistance…you are paying income tax now. How does simplifying the code down to a flat-percentage across the board change that? Since it is a percentage of gross…the productive will still foot the bill and it will eliminate all of these schemes you don’t like. It will simply be…’fair.’

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Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

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Originally posted by ledvm:

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A flat tax is not equality, a flat tax benefits those at the top and pushes the burden of funding the government onto the less fortunate.

Nothing could be further from the truth. A flat tax is the epitome of equality. We have one person one vote…this makes every vote concerned about the financing of the government.

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Percentage or not, you are pushing the burden on to the lower brackets with a flat tax. Making it hard for those of us who struggle.

If you are making enough money to fund a household without government assistance…you are paying income tax now. How does simplifying the code down to a flat-percentage across the board change that? Since it is a percentage of gross…the productive will still foot the bill and it will eliminate all of these schemes you don’t like. It will simply be…’fair.’

Your idea is nothing more than a BIGGER gift to the wealthy. The budget deficit needs to be brought under control and the wealthy need to pay a reasonable rate of income tax. It is absurd that many of the wealthiest people in the country pay lower rates than the average working stiff. A flat tax is a terrible idea for 90% of the population, great if you are at the top of the food chain though. Same thing for Trump's idea of implementing higher tariffs and getting rid of income tax...a huge gift for those already at the top.

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Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
A flat tax will only create a larger wealth gap and push the burden of funding our government on to those who can least afford it.

Your opinion…but I see no clear evidence of that being the case.

Wisdom: when you are running a deficit, increase your income and reduce your spending.

Better wisdom based on proven personal performance:
When running a deficit…immediately reduce spending to match revenue and then implement strategy to try and increase revenue.

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Originally posted by Saeed:
The rich pay less because of loopholes in the law enacted by corrupt politicians who have been bribed!

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Originally posted by ledvm:
When does “the need” to increase revenue quit? When we no longer experience inflation, pay off our deficit and start passing balanced budgets. No time soon in other words. You, just like me, are going to have to pay more taxes. Sucks, but that is reality.

As to income…there ain’t no such thing as 101%.

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Originally posted by ledvm:

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Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

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Originally posted by ledvm:

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A flat tax is not equality, a flat tax benefits those at the top and pushes the burden of funding the government onto the less fortunate.

Nothing could be further from the truth. A flat tax is the epitome of equality. We have one person one vote…this makes every vote concerned about the financing of the government.

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Percentage or not, you are pushing the burden on to the lower brackets with a flat tax. Making it hard for those of us who struggle.

If you are making enough money to fund a household without government assistance…you are paying income tax now. How does simplifying the code down to a flat-percentage across the board change that? Since it is a percentage of gross…the productive will still foot the bill and it will eliminate all of these schemes you don’t like. It will simply be…’fair.’

Your idea is nothing more than a BIGGER gift to the wealthy. The budget deficit needs to be brought under control and the wealthy need to pay a reasonable rate of income tax. It is absurd that many of the wealthiest people in the country pay lower rates than the average working stiff. A flat tax is a terrible idea for 90% of the population, great if you are at the top of the food chain though. Same thing for Trump's idea of implementing higher tariffs and getting rid of income tax...a huge gift for those already at the top.

I have been studying tax strategies for a few years and I see no clear evidence that any of your statements above are true…when you base the truth in numbers.

Fact: The wealthy already contribute 90% of the revenue to the US Treasury.

Question: What is a “reasonable rate” for the wealthy.

Wisdom: “When in a hole…stop digging.” This is the only way the deficit will ever get under control.

Finally, If you want to ensure the wealthy pay a certain rate…a flat-tax will do it. If you want them to pay more than the less wealthy…a graduated flat-tax will solve that. If you truly believe in equality…a flat-tax is your answer.

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Originally posted by ledvm:

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A flat tax is not equality, a flat tax benefits those at the top and pushes the burden of funding the government onto the less fortunate.

Nothing could be further from the truth. A flat tax is the epitome of equality. We have one person one vote…this makes every vote concerned about the financing of the government.

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Percentage or not, you are pushing the burden on to the lower brackets with a flat tax. Making it hard for those of us who struggle.

If you are making enough money to fund a household without government assistance…you are paying income tax now. How does simplifying the code down to a flat-percentage across the board change that? Since it is a percentage of gross…the productive will still foot the bill and it will eliminate all of these schemes you don’t like. It will simply be…’fair.’

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Originally posted by JTEX:


The left doesn't want fair!

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The system as it stands, where my Gov. paid 8.2% on 23 million in income, while I paid a far higher rate on much less income, is far from fair.

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Originally posted by ledvm:

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The system as it stands, where my Gov. paid 8.2% on 23 million in income, while I paid a far higher rate on much less income, is far from fair.

You both operate under the same rules. Are you jealous? Hardly, quite happy in my life thank you. I'm not getting beat in life either. That still does not make our current tax system anywhere near fair. I always say if you get beat…play harder (or in this instance smarter).

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Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Doc

You are being very generous to the rude idiot and not giving me enough credit for my intellect.

You have a right to defend him. But your choices also define your moral compass.

The rest of the world knows that Lane is wrong in claiming that the rich pay 90% of tax. That is disproved by the stats. The rude idiot is being dishonest and you know it.

You know that the top 1% need to pay more tax. They pay a lower proportion of their income and wealth and keep getting richer AT THE EXPENSE of the other 99%.

I keep repeating it. The top 1% have no incentive for a booming economy. They make more money at a faster rate when the rest of us struggle.

History shows evidence that all GOP administrations in the last 50 years had a poorer economy and all Democratic administrations rebuilt the economy. The Democrats created more jobs.

A challenge to your conscience Doc.

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Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

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Originally posted by ledvm:

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The system as it stands, where my Gov. paid 8.2% on 23 million in income, while I paid a far higher rate on much less income, is far from fair.

You both operate under the same rules. Are you jealous? Hardly, quite happy in my life thank you. I'm not getting beat in life either. That still does not make our current tax system anywhere near fair. I always say if you get beat…play harder (or in this instance smarter).

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Originally posted by ledvm:

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Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

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Originally posted by ledvm:

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The system as it stands, where my Gov. paid 8.2% on 23 million in income, while I paid a far higher rate on much less income, is far from fair.

You both operate under the same rules. Are you jealous? Hardly, quite happy in my life thank you. I'm not getting beat in life either. That still does not make our current tax system anywhere near fair. I always say if you get beat…play harder (or in this instance smarter).

If you both play under the same rules, and you are both happy with your situation, please show me the unfairness? Yes, the tax code is extremely complicated. Some spend the time and money to take advantage…some don’t. But, that doesn’t make it unfair.

If you want to simplify AND make more fair — flat-tax.

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Originally posted by ledvm:

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Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

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Originally posted by ledvm:

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The system as it stands, where my Gov. paid 8.2% on 23 million in income, while I paid a far higher rate on much less income, is far from fair.

You both operate under the same rules. Are you jealous? Hardly, quite happy in my life thank you. I'm not getting beat in life either. That still does not make our current tax system anywhere near fair. I always say if you get beat…play harder (or in this instance smarter).

If you both play under the same rules, and you are both happy with your situation, please show me the unfairness? Yes, the tax code is extremely complicated. Some spend the time and money to take advantage…some don’t. But, that doesn’t make it unfair.

If you want to simplify AND make more fair — flat-tax.

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Originally posted by
The rich make the rules.

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Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

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Originally posted by ledvm:

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Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

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Originally posted by ledvm:

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The system as it stands, where my Gov. paid 8.2% on 23 million in income, while I paid a far higher rate on much less income, is far from fair.

You both operate under the same rules. Are you jealous? Hardly, quite happy in my life thank you. I'm not getting beat in life either. That still does not make our current tax system anywhere near fair. I always say if you get beat…play harder (or in this instance smarter).

If you both play under the same rules, and you are both happy with your situation, please show me the unfairness? Yes, the tax code is extremely complicated. Some spend the time and money to take advantage…some don’t. But, that doesn’t make it unfair.

If you want to simplify AND make more fair — flat-tax.

Or just get rid of the tax shelters that the rich abuse and raise the rates of tax they pay. That would be fair