https://thedailydigest.com/en/...killer-of-americans/


And it might not be what you think
There are a lot of things you should worry about when it comes to your health but a new study has revealed that living in poverty might need to be at the very top of your list.

==================================================

The thing is that those in poverty don't care about climate change, ecosystems, the environment, species extinctions or diversity.

Quit voting for Democrats.

The next big killer of Americans is STUPIDITY!

Never in my life have ever imagined a country like America would sink into this totally brainless quagmire!

I forgot to include the link to the article in the OP, but edited to include.

Here's another:

https://www.ineteconomics.org/...g-its-own-population

America, Land of the Dying? Alarming Study Shows U.S. Killing Its Own Population

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Quit voting for Democrats.

Yea, right - vote for this guy:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...90de5247441bf2&ei=11

'It is a dangerous time in America!!!': Trump has overnight meltdown over Jack Smith investigations
Story by Tom Boggioni • 2h ago

================================================

He showed us how dangerous America can get, and he's not finished. If there is a next time, he will really show us something dangerous.

Here's an article that sorta affirms a premise that I have. The difference between the premise of the article and my theory is that the article hinges on Covid and the response.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/heal...6fae80a1f159c7&ei=11

Scholars suggest society is caught in a 'death spiral'
Story by Daniel Nuccio • Yesterday 6:43 AM

My theory is broader in cause, same in effect. Any stress on society, not just covid-like, and the response, but climate stress of all sorts, AND the associated denials, will spiral into either chaos or authoritarianism, like fascism. The clues are apparent.

Anyway - key excerpts:

In the preprint, Ioannidis and a pair of Dutch scholars, Michaela Schippers from Erasmus University Rotterdam’s Department of Technology and Operations Management and philosopher Matthias Luijks from the University of Groningen, draw on concepts from fields ranging from biology and psychology to management theory as they develop their concept of the “death spiral effect,” describing it as “a vicious cycle of self-reinforcing dysfunctional behavior, characterized by continuous flawed decision making, myopic single-minded focus on one (set of) solution(s), resource loss, denial, distrust, and micromanagement, dogmatic thinking and learned helplessness.”

“The death spiral,” they note, “is often initiated by an external or internal event (e.g., crisis) causing a trauma or emotional response.”

“On a societal level,” they add, “this spiral results in increasing gap between elite and masses, and massive resource loss.”

Some signs one’s society might be in a death spiral, according to the trio, include initial denial, suboptimal decision-making in which leaders repeatedly turn to the same ineffective solutions, engagement in counterproductive coping mechanisms such as turf-protection and passivity, a “worsening of the situation, and a continuous (series of) crises,” and an inability to escape the cycle of poor decision-making.

As the death spiral continues, an atmosphere of distrust and negativity may develop, the scholars note, while leaders may increasingly focus on adherence to a long list of rules instead of solving actual problems and censor challenges to the official narrative.

If this sounds like a pretty apt summary of our society these past few years, you’re in good company.

The ultimate outcome was an increased gap between the elites and the masses and a greater comfort with authoritarianism.

With that stated, the authors of the preprint also offer some hope, putting forth several steps that can be taken for our society to escape its current death spiral: namely, acknowledging the death spiral and developing a plan to break it.

However, with the continued absence of any official acknowledgment by many leaders, fixation on misinformation showing no signs of abating, and a contingent of leaders appearing ready for a war in the name of climate, it would seem our societal death spiral will continue apace.


===================================================

Another key clue in support of my premise or theory is this:

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/front...te-pivots-to-policy/

Key Climate Denialist Group Heartland Institute Pivots to Policy

The pivot comes at a paradoxical moment: There has never been more evidence that humans are altering the climate; nor has Heartland’s message to the contrary ever enjoyed a more sympathetic ear

Here's some history on the politics of climate change:

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/front...s-of-climate-change/

Published OCTOBER 23, 2012

Timeline: The Politics of Climate Change

===============================================

The timeline article ends in 2012, so here are some facts updating through recently:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...of_the_United_States

Climate change policy of the United States

Since the OP premise is on human health and poverty, here's something connecting climate change with health and poverty:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...ange_on_human_health

Effects of climate change on human health

================================================

Associated:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_health

Environmental health

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...cs-environmental.jpg

The next big killer of Americans will be obesity and its side effects. 42% of Americans meet the criteria

https://www.tfah.org/report-de...0of%2045.6%20percent.

Stay fat, get dead….

Fat people sweat more, as far as I know.

Fat people die more…

uhhh no.
the entire population of this planet dies at a one to one ratio.


Man, Magine you really gotta find some outside stuff to do.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Quit voting for Democrats.

He showed us how dangerous America can get, and he's not finished. If there is a next time, he will really show us something dangerous.

What he showed us was how to thrive.

If you don’t want know poverty look no further back than 2019. The country was strong with real-money.

If you want to know poverty vote for more Democrats.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Quit voting for Democrats.

He showed us how dangerous America can get, and he's not finished. If there is a next time, he will really show us something dangerous.

What he showed us was how to thrive.

If you don’t want know poverty look no further back than 2019. The country was strong with real-money.

If you want to know poverty vote for more Democrats.

Funny but the economy is roaring at the moment, despite the Fed raising interest rates to the highest point in years.

I simply cannot begin to keep pace with demand.

Thriving is a very good description of the current state of business from my point of view.

And yet at the same time, the poor are even poorer. Inflation has really hurt the fixed income people of my town.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Quit voting for Democrats.

He showed us how dangerous America can get, and he's not finished. If there is a next time, he will really show us something dangerous.

What he showed us was how to thrive.

If you don’t want know poverty look no further back than 2019. The country was strong with real-money.

If you want to know poverty vote for more Democrats.

Funny but the economy is roaring at the moment, despite the Fed raising interest rates to the highest point in years.

I simply cannot begin to keep pace with demand.

Thriving is a very good description of the current state of business from my point of view.

To be quite honest I agree with you about the present. But, I am afraid we are living in a house of cards right now — the economic warning signs are blinking.

The difference is that 2019 was rock-solid with real-money.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

What he showed us was how to thrive.

Interesting.

A magnificent con artist, liar, cheat, grifter, pussy grabber, fake Christian, former Democrat; the guy who showed us what seditious conspiracy looks like when setup from the WH; the guy who gutted environmental protections; the most divisive, self-serving, vengeful, racist, narcissistic, zero-sum demagogue authoritarian Putin owned POTUS, showed you how to thrive.

The “Stand back and stand by” POTUS.

hummm


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...8f1f5bca612945&ei=28

https://www.theguardian.com/us...rmed-protest-capitol

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

What he showed us was how to thrive.

Interesting.

A magnificent con artist, liar, cheat, grifter, pussy grabber, fake Christian, former Democrat; the guy who showed us what seditious conspiracy looks like when setup from the WH; the guy who gutted environmental protections; the most divisive, self-serving, vengeful, racist, narcissistic, zero-sum demagogue authoritarian Putin owned POTUS, showed you how to thrive.

The “Stand back and stand by” POTUS.

hummm


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...8f1f5bca612945&ei=28

https://www.theguardian.com/us...rmed-protest-capitol

Yet the economy thrived on real-money, middle-class wealth began to increase, energy was cheap and we were independent, and no new conflicts were started or engaged.

quote:

and no new conflicts were started or engaged

One of the most damaging conflicts was encouraged or engaged within the country mostly due to Trumpism. And it still rages.

I think we all can thrive better without such conflict.

Or is it that conflict is the tool, the fulcrum, for some to thrive - in the zero-sum game, culture war?

Conflict began about 1-20- 2009.

You are just jealous because you weren't invited to the watermelon party.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks4-HP8cH-s&t=83s

https://twitter.com/Obama_Eati...s/351848711678197760

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoVuz7SIH4E

quote:

Originally posted by Lamar:

Man, Magine you really gotta find some outside stuff to do.

Yea. For sure.

I'm working on several projects, trying to focus on one to finish.

My shuttle bus converted to camper has a whine in the rear axel. Gotta have that fixed so I can do the trip to Alaska, which will be delayed this year because I have to wait until my sister's fiftieth marriage anniversary party is over. But that gives me all of August to be at my destination in Alaska, some extra excursions in the Yukon, and all of September to be traveling about in the west US, with the aspen colors, elk rut, etc.

I allow at least two weeks travel time each way, and that's pushing it for me. I will plan more time on the return trip this year. I may even go as far south as Arizona and New Mexico, places I've never been. Utah and Montana have some awesome places too.

It's getting harder to make the journey, given my age, so I have to rev up my mojo. And it's expensive. I lost count of how many times I've done the trip (not counting flights) over the years - probably pushing 20. I used to boondock, but don't do that anymore if I can help it. Times have changed, and state parks and Provencial parks are inexpensive and safe. Last summer I caught the damn Covid in Canada. That's ironic since they put me through so much BS just to cross the border. I wasn't able to get meds until I arrived at the AK village where there was a clinic. Paxlovid did the trick.

Anyway, you are correct about outside activities. I have a fishing trip planned next week with an old high school buddy, one of the few still alive, able and sane. We're going after flathead catfish. That's his specialty. Mine too. It will be educational to share techniques. I do trotlines and live bait. I never caught one on a rod and reel. Hopefully that is about to change.

Best regards.

Let's get back to the main theme of this thread, which is human stress by environmental factors, as well as consequential socio-economic factors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo90uHHN6R8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu3PVsOGjAE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVLK5Nz6j8E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXEPYnORJ-Q

For a few years I have noticed a decline in the salmon fishery in SE AK too. I read that they have cancelled the king salmon commercial troll fishery.

We still caught all we wanted, and halibut too.

But the rock fish are far more abundant than they used to be. They are fun to catch and good eating too. I brought back, frozen, a five cubic ft freezer full of vacuum-packed filets last year. I estimate over 100 lbs of pure fish, halibut, salmon (silver), shrimp (deep water prawns) and rock fish (black and dusky), which I've enjoyed all winter. These are fish from some of the least pollutuded waters.

The Dungeness crab are still plentiful, but the commercial guys fish them hard. They are shallow water bugs. I don't eat them. I consider them salt water roaches - nasty buggers.

I had a thought, more than once , that wild catfish are an abundant resource, and underutilized, and renewable.

There is one major problem. Generally, they are tainted from water pollution, so steady consumption is not recommended. What a shame.

The same scenario applies to the majority (by far) of the fresh water species all over the nation, excluding Alaska. Some salt water species are also affected. I think it's not acceptable, but I don't know what to do about it, except to choose the waters I fish in carefully, and otherwise limit consumption.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Conflict began about 1-20- 2009.

Yes, I agree.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly8wfEBAz60

Then you elected Trump, as further backlash, and conflict.

List---president---previously

43--George W. Bush--state governor
44 Barack Obama U.S. senator
45 Donald Trump con artist, grifter, celebrity
46 Joe Biden career politician

I think you have it backwards.

The environment is stressed by sheer numbers of humans. Most have no place to go. Even the US, which has a lower population density than most is overpopulated.

The sheer number of people is what is reducing human mortality.

If the current population was what it was globally in 1873, we would be having no issues whatsoever.

Go to Africa or any third-world country. We don't have a concept of poor here.

Democrats/Socialism will kill Americans.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
I think you have it backwards.

The environment is stressed by sheer numbers of humans. Most have no place to go. Even the US, which has a lower population density than most is overpopulated.

The sheer number of people is what is reducing human mortality.

If the current population was what it was globally in 1873, we would be having no issues whatsoever.

100% true story

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Go to Africa or any third-world country. We don't have a concept of poor here.

Democrats/Socialism will kill Americans.

The poorest homeless in America are richer than most in Africa.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
I think you have it backwards.

The environment is stressed by sheer numbers of humans. Most have no place to go. Even the US, which has a lower population density than most is overpopulated.

The sheer number of people is what is reducing human mortality.

If the current population was what it was globally in 1873, we would be having no issues whatsoever.

100% true story

Yep, and yet no one wants to raise it at the endless global summits on this or that. It's the politically incorrect elephant in the room. Global pop has more than doubled in my lifetime.

Environmentalists and greenies are too stupid, and gave a way of making money, to realize they make zero effect to the earth!

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

The sheer number of people is what is reducing human mortality.

If the current population was what it was globally in 1873, we would be having no issues whatsoever.

I think that's a fantasy.

I looked into a bit of history, specifically 1873. It was an eventful year. Here's some of it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1873

Financial Panic of 1873
https://home.treasury.gov/abou...ancial-panic-of-1873

---------------------------------------------

Reconstruction era (1865-1877)

After the Civil War was a time of great stress.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconstruction_era

-----------------------------------------------
Colfax, La., 1873:

On Easter Sunday, April 13, 1873, they were surrounded by a White mob that set the courthouse on fire and shot anyone who emerged. It is estimated that 62 to 81 African Americans were killed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com...res-silence-schools/

----------------------------------------------

Do you think Putin's War in Ukraine has anything to do with population numbers?

-----------------------------------------------

My point is that mortalities have little to do with the numbers of individuals in the population, but instead on social and cultural stresses. Sure, too many people is stressful, but that's just part of the picture. Competition is strong. The straw that breaks the back is environmental. Say Yellowstone blows, or an asteroid hits, or another more deadly pandemic hits?

My point there is that the disaster itself (natural, super-natural, or otherwise) will get a lot of people, but society and cultural stresses will probably kill more than the event.

Climate change is just a slower moving environmental disaster/stress. Can we cope and adjust? I doubt it. There are many collateral consequences.

The question is - are Republicans correct in their zero-sum worldview? The answer is probably - practically, based on history. Morally? You can answer that for yourself.

In relation to your global warming issues.

Our cars, electricity, industrial messes, use of the oceans, etc. would be within the earth’s carrying capacity without massive releases.

Sure, if we lived as we did in 1873, we would have issues… but our current technology would make our footprint negligible with a sub billion human population. We would likely be able to spread out more and have less animosity from that… of course, those who want power would still be willing to misbehave to get it.


I chose 1873 as it was in the heyday of US and African expansion. In other words, there was a lot of minimally settled land then.

If we have frontiers where people can go to get away from others, we seem to have a release valve for a lot of aggression.

quote:

If we have frontiers where people can go to get away from others, we seem to have a release valve for a lot of aggression.

crowded "Skinner Box" type aggression

quote:

If the current population was what it was globally in 1873, we would be having no issues whatsoever.

No issues? You want to walk that back? No poverty, no wars, no slave trades? Etc.

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:

quote:

If the current population was what it was globally in 1873, we would be having no issues whatsoever.

No issues? You want to walk that back? No poverty, no wars, no slave trades? Etc.

I am sure the US Apache scouts who hit sent off to Florida for being Good Solders at the end of the Plain, Indian Wars would disagree with you.