From Redacted:

Did You Take The Pfizer or Moderna Covid Shot?

A new study finds that at least one in four people who took the mRNA Moderna and Pfizer Covid vaccines suffered an "unintended immune response created by a glitch in the way the vaccine was read by the body."

The study comes out of the University of Cambridge’s Medical Research Council (MRC) Toxicology Unit. They say that the mRNA was basically misread by the body due to an experimental tweak in the Covid vaccines and a nonsensical code was introduced into people who took it. This is called "frameshifting."

The Telegraph (article has a paywall) reports that this errant protein was "nonsensical and harmless protein" but the study does not say that. The researchers say that they don't know the effect of this when they specifically write: "no study has investigated the fundamental question of whether modified ribonucleotides can affect the maintenance of the correct reading frame during translation of a synthetic transcript. Understanding these processes is critical to increase our knowledge of protein synthesis from modified mRNAs in general."

The purpose of this study was to find a way for this not to happen again, not to study the effect of it happening. Researchers say that they have done so and that in future mRNA jabs, they can prevent further frameshifting.


Harmful immune response

Is there some sort of response that results in noticeable physical symptoms?

Does the effect disappear over time? In other words is there anything to be concerned about if you never noticed anything?

And?

Did these folks suffer some harm or injury?

quote:

In collaboration with researchers at the Universities of Kent, Oxford and Liverpool, the MRC Toxicology Unit team tested for evidence of the production of ‘off-target’ proteins in people who received the mRNA Pfizer vaccine against COVID-19. They found an unintended immune response occurred in one third of the 21 patients in the study who were vaccinated – but with no ill-effects, in keeping with the extensive safety data available on these COVID-19 vaccines.

If there were any concerning ill-effects, however small, you'd think that would be clear by now, after several billions of vaccinations, over several years.

If it shifted and made the wrong protein, it would not have been effective as a vaccine in those people.

Of course, I’m skeptical of this.

First reports from a “news” service behind a paywall?

Hindsights a great thing. Especially after a panic.
I think there is no doubt that the vaccines were rushed out and there was/is potential for untested issues to occur and they probably have. I also think those who are religiously anti vaccine are looking for anything to confirm thier beliefs and there is alot of straw clutching going on. And Hyperbole.
This issue is showing the worst of the human condition where everyone is intent on proving the other guys did the wrong thing.

The adverse side effects of the vaccines are undoubtedly being exaggerated by the anti-vaxxers. Having said that, they would have to do an awful lot of exaggerating to reach the levels attained by the pro-vaxxers when touting the efficacy of the shots. Every person I know of who had a serious case of covid had also had the shot. Of course, I heard of others who were unvaxxed and did get very ill but did not personally know them. One guy had serious side effects, but he has some sort of hyper immune response syndrome or something. So, right now, I think we can allow each person to make his or her own choice and live with the results. On both sides, we get way too much information from people who just make shit up! Regards, Bill

A small but hopefully funny story. Ive had 3 shots of the vaccine.
I also have Atrial fibrilation that comes and goes. Its often worse when Im stressed.
At times the symptoms that I notice are similar too whats described for Myocarditis.... And getting the vaccine stresses the hell out of me because of that.
Its a no win situation.

quote:

we get way too much information disinformation from people who just make shit up! Regards, Bill

The only thing that distresses me about the vaccine is the anti-vaxxers.

Who ya gonna trust, CDC, WHO, my GP doctor, or a bunch of proven nutz?

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
A small but hopefully funny story. Ive had 3 shots of the vaccine.
I also have Atrial fibrilation that comes and goes. Its often worse when Im stressed.
At times the symptoms that I notice are similar too whats described for Myocarditis.... And getting the vaccine stresses the hell out of me because of that.
Its a no win situation.

I've had 5 Pfizer shots with no ill effects from the shots or COVID! At my age considering other issues, side effects are the least of my concern. Debating a 6th and if I do it will be the NovaVax version.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

we get way too much information disinformation from people who just make shit up! Regards, Bill

The only thing that distresses me about the vaccine is the anti-vaxxers.

Who ya gonna trust, CDC, WHO, my GP doctor, or a bunch of proven nutz?

So you STILL believe if you are vaxxxed you won't get the 'rona nor spread it? If you do, ask my father's wife about how well they worked.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
So you STILL believe if you are vaxxxed you won't get the 'rona nor spread it? If you do, ask my father's wife about how well they worked.

Where did you get that notion? I certainly never said it.

I caught the 'rona. Had to go to Canada to catch it. That's after they required me to get two shots and cards to prove it, to cross the border.

Paxlovid knocked it out quickly.

quote:

Originally posted by BushPeter:

quote:

In collaboration with researchers at the Universities of Kent, Oxford and Liverpool, the MRC Toxicology Unit team tested for evidence of the production of ‘off-target’ proteins in people who received the mRNA Pfizer vaccine against COVID-19. They found an unintended immune response occurred in one third of the 21 patients in the study who were vaccinated – but with no ill-effects, in keeping with the extensive safety data available on these COVID-19 vaccines.

If there were any concerning ill-effects, however small, you'd think that would be clear by now, after several billions of vaccinations, over several years.

National Institutes of Health:

"Diethylstilbestrol (DES), a transplacental endocrine-disrupting chemical, was prescribed to pregnant women for several decades. The number of women who took DES is hard to know precisely, but it has been estimated that over 10 million people have been exposed around the world. DES was classified in the year 2000 as carcinogenic to humans."

It didn't bother the generation that used it, but the next generation paid the piper...

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:


Where did you get that notion? I certainly never said it.

LOL, you said it right here. BTW- The article and research was conducted by 'scientists'.

quote:

The only thing that distresses me about the vaccine is the anti-vaxxers.

I think its the interpretation put on the scientific data by non scientific people with a bias thats the issue.

Reaction to the vaccine included everything!

From o e not feeling a bloody thing - me!

To friends who actually dropped unconscious a few minutes later and remained so for several minutes.

To individuals who felt very sick for at least two days!

I refused to take it.

But then it was either stay at home, or get the vaccine to be able to travel!

I am one of the lucky ones - so far.

That I never felt anything in response to the shot!

Because of my age, we got home visits.

The nurse gave me the injection and was waiting for a response!

My daughter told her “you don’t need to worry about him. Nothing affects him!”

Both my wife and daughter had some discomfort throughout the night after the vaccine.

May be there is something wrong with me.

Never been sick.

73 so far and looking forward to the next 27 in good health.

Me and brother Don have an appointment for joint 100 birthday!

The other day he said “not long to go now”

Told him I don’t care how we get there.

As long as we do!

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
So you STILL believe if you are vaxxxed you won't get the 'rona nor spread it? If you do, ask my father's wife about how well they worked.

Where did you get that notion? I certainly never said it.

I caught the 'rona. Had to go to Canada to catch it. That's after they required me to get two shots and cards to prove it, to cross the border.

Paxlovid knocked it out quickly.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:


Where did you get that notion? I certainly never said it.

LOL, you said it right here. BTW- The article and research was conducted by 'scientists'.

quote:

The only thing that distresses me about the vaccine is the anti-vaxxers.

What are you saying, Ann. I don't understand.

I'm saying you made it up or perhaps misunderstood me. I didn't say the vaxx prevents one from catching it or spreading it. If by some chance I did say that and just don't remember it, then I was mistaken.

My above post should correct that.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
So you STILL believe if you are vaxxxed you won't get the 'rona nor spread it? If you do, ask my father's wife about how well they worked.

Where did you get that notion? I certainly never said it.

I caught the 'rona. Had to go to Canada to catch it. That's after they required me to get two shots and cards to prove it, to cross the border.

Paxlovid knocked it out quickly.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:


Where did you get that notion? I certainly never said it.

LOL, you said it right here. BTW- The article and research was conducted by 'scientists'.

quote:

The only thing that distresses me about the vaccine is the anti-vaxxers.

What are you saying, Ann. I don't understand.

I'm saying you made it up or perhaps misunderstood me. I didn't say the vaxx prevents one from catching it or spreading it. If by some chance I did say that and just don't remember it, then I was mistaken.

My above post should correct that.

If the vaccine doesn't prevent one from catching or spreading the VID, why would it bother you if someone doesn't get the vaccine? I understand that its best value can be a decrease in severity if one does get it.

quote:

If the vaccine doesn't prevent one from catching or spreading the VID, why would it bother you if someone doesn't get the vaccine? I understand that its best value can be a decrease in severity if one does get it.

Now that's a good question, IMO. Also, I agree with your second sentence quoted above.

It's not stand-alone that someone not getting the vaccine that bothers me.

That's why I said "the only thing that distresses (bothers) me is the anti-vaxxers".

I thought that was self-explanatory, but apparently not.

This maybe will explain the depth of my opinion on it:

If someone doesn't want to get a vaccine, they have the freedom to choose. I support that. It's their justifications and BS which foments it which bothers me.

Anti-vaxxers are not single-issue people. The anti-vaxx thing is just a clue to the scope of their skewed belief system. It's a window. First the anti-vaxx belief is well founded in disinformation, and misinformation from their own reservoir, and they are susceptible to lies and propaganda unique to them. That makes them vulnerable to manipulation, such as Trumpism. They are incapable of sorting truth from fiction, perhaps reality itself. They impose and project their damaging beliefs on others, and especially their children, which makes it multi-generational.

IOW, they are a prime cause of the dog and pony chit show that the country is going through now mostly exposed through Trumpism and MAGA.

And, the anti-vaxxers have spread so many lies just relating to the Covid vaxx, internalized it, made it political and stirred so much chit which is imbedded within a truckload. Just imagine the trajectory of it. If or when we get another pandemic, they will do more of the same. Denial and ignorance, self-induced or whatever, on a massive scale, on a broad scale of issues cannot be a good thing, although the thwarting the associated freedom or free will is not a good thing either. I see no breakthrough on this disease, which is spreading.

IOW, the real and dangerous virus is the ant-vaxxer types, with their lies. The Corona is benevolent in comparison, because it has no will. Anti-vaxxers do.

quote:

If someone doesn't want to get a vaccine, they have the freedom to choose. I support that. It's their justifications and BS which foments it which bothers me.

In case you forgot, a lot of people were forced to get vaxx if they wanted to keep their jobs.

Did that bother you?

People who didn't want to partake were constantly attacked for their decision.

Did that bother you?

forced clot shot and requiring people to give HIPAA information was a colossal over-step and should have made it to the SCOTUS in like 15 minutes

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
forced clot shot and requiring people to give HIPAA information was a colossal over-step and should have made it to the SCOTUS in like 15 minutes

Absolutely.

Funny how the truly insane are the ones who wanted to force this on everyone. Also looks like they seem to have forgotten their threatening words and wishes. Sick.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
forced clot shot and requiring people to give HIPAA information was a colossal over-step and should have made it to the SCOTUS in like 15 minutes

Absolutely.

Funny how the truly insane are the ones who wanted to force this on everyone. Also looks like they seem to have forgotten their threatening words and wishes. Sick.

The belief [but not the evidence] was that the vaccine would prevent one from getting COVID.

There was a good deal of mis-info by Faucci himself going on too. He was going his own way amid CDC's own data.

the first time i got covid, it was like the flu-x3, for about 3x longer - the second time it felt like a cold, but total lost of taste/smell -- if you haven't had it, it's NOT like clogged head, where you can taste if it's strong enough - it's ZERO taste/smell -- stuff was warm, hot, cold, salty, or hot-from-spice-pain -- i could taste nothing, this lasted about 3 months where everything tasted like warmish paste. i could feel the slickness of too salty, and the taste of hot/spicey food was gone - i could feel the pain from it, but zero taste.

But, the flu-like symptoms weren't anything like as bad as the first time. this is because it was a different variant, not due to antibodies (speculation, but backed up by observation)

and there's no, repeat, zero, data points that say if you got the clot shot that your symptoms would be better than the next person, without the shot, of the same variant.

in 20 years, the scientific community will have the guts to say that the first take of mRNA "vax" was a total failure. It wasn't, and isn't, a vax, it's a therapeutic - in fact, on it's face, when the vax came out then the infection rate went up - that's actually what the data presents, and that's not speculation.

The colt shot has over 25K adverse reactions - NOT speculation, cold hard facts, https://www.cdc.gov/coronaviru.../adverse-events.html

in fact, the number was so high, the CDC created VAERS https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesaf...ing/vaers/index.html

and all the virtue signaling around the vax was just that, virtue signaling

I tend to think you are right. The understandable reaction too the vaccine from those in govt, who had to be seen to be doing something, was to overreact and it got quite ugly in how they forced vaccination without admitting they were forcing it. It was ugly on both sides. At the time I was moderating a campfire section in another forum, and I was appalled at the taunts being thrown from bth sides. Had too end up telling everyone to make up thier own minds and the shut the fuck up about it.
But still we see it. Pro vac on here want too lay the blame on those who didnt take the vaccine and make it a wider political theme. Which it might well be in some context, but how much is a direct result of the attitude thrown at you?

IN NZ the story broke a few months ago that the govt had kept quiet and embargoed the information that some 11,000 medical staff had been given a vaccine exemption. We were told you lost your job in the medical industry if you didnt take the vaccine.
It wouldn't have help the situation I know, but 11000 medically minded people deciding the vaccine was too risky is worthy information.

There is a mindset pervading institutions that is really wrong. And people have a right too recognise the hypocrisy and silliness of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq7P0VYeLBQ

The trick is doing so and not delving into reciprocal stupidity.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
I tend to think you are right. The understandable reaction too the vaccine from those in govt, who had to be seen to be doing something, was to overreact and it got quite ugly in how they forced vaccination without admitting they were forcing it. It was ugly on both sides. At the time I was moderating a campfire section in another forum, and I was appalled at the taunts being thrown from bth sides. Had too end up telling everyone to make up thier own minds and the shut the fuck up about it.
But still we see it. Pro vac on here want too lay the blame on those who didnt take the vaccine and make it a wider political theme. Which it might well be in some context, but how much is a direct result of the attitude thrown at you?

IN NZ the story broke a few months ago that the govt had kept quiet and embargoed the information that some 11,000 medical staff had been given a vaccine exemption. We were told you lost your job in the medical industry if you didnt take the vaccine.
It wouldn't have help the situation I know, but 11000 medically minded people deciding the vaccine was too risky is worthy information.

There is a mindset pervading institutions that is really wrong. And people have a right too recognise the hypocrisy and silliness of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq7P0VYeLBQ

The trick is doing so and not delving into reciprocal stupidity.

What is interesting is that they were giving exemptions. In the US, especially in the bigger corporate medical companies, they fired lots of folks for refusing. From everything that we heard here NZ both was more insistent you get it, and no one questioned orthodoxy.

In fact, several of your countrymen were lecturing us on how "unscientific" we were.

I suspect given the relative size of the nations that you guys actually had a higher rate of refusal... and still a lower rate of problems... why (scientifically)?

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:

Funny how the truly insane are the ones who wanted to force this on everyone. Also looks like they seem to have forgotten their threatening words and wishes. Sick.

Funny how the Canadian govt. said get the shot, prove it, or you won't be allowed to cross the border.

Some other countries had the same mandate.

I suppose they were all insane.

And the anti-vaxxers were the sane bunch. That's the "sanity" that will be rampant next time, attacking the science, the doctors, you know - the trained ones in science and medicine.

This from a guy who has gotten pretty much every vaccine out there...

The theoretical advantage of the vaccine was there, but the same scientists ignored science thoroughly, and as shown by the end results.

Shanks did point out the critical point...
The understandable reaction too the vaccine from those in govt, who had to be seen to be doing something, was to overreact and it got quite ugly in how they forced vaccination without admitting they were forcing it.

The science has been replete with unintended consequences over the years. Thalidomide (a teratogen, BTW, not really a carcinogen) was a particularly ugly example. The scientists knew this, and nevertheless decided to push for rapid runout based on their personal ethical views rather than a scientific approach of here are the risks, some of which are not quantifiable until we do further study.

I am OK with releasing experimental drugs to folks with that understanding; but to try and push it, and having colleagues disciplined and fired just because they have different personal ethics and judgement than the orthodoxy shows serious ethical flaws on the part of scientific leadership.

In general, as soon as you start thinking you know all or most things factually, you get caught in a serious error.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:

Funny how the truly insane are the ones who wanted to force this on everyone. Also looks like they seem to have forgotten their threatening words and wishes. Sick.

Funny how the Canadian govt. said get the shot, prove it, or you won't be allowed to cross the border.

Some other countries had the same mandate.

I suppose they were all insane.

And the anti-vaxxers were the sane bunch. That's the "sanity" that will be rampant next time, attacking the science, the doctors, you know - the trained ones in science and medicine.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
the first time i got covid, it was like the flu-x3, for about 3x longer - the second time it felt like a cold, but total lost of taste/smell -- if you haven't had it, it's NOT like clogged head, where you can taste if it's strong enough - it's ZERO taste/smell -- stuff was warm, hot, cold, salty, or hot-from-spice-pain -- i could taste nothing, this lasted about 3 months where everything tasted like warmish paste. i could feel the slickness of too salty, and the taste of hot/spicey food was gone - i could feel the pain from it, but zero taste.

But, the flu-like symptoms weren't anything like as bad as the first time. this is because it was a different variant, not due to antibodies (speculation, but backed up by observation)

and there's no, repeat, zero, data points that say if you got the clot shot that your symptoms would be better than the next person, without the shot, of the same variant.

in 20 years, the scientific community will have the guts to say that the first take of mRNA "vax" was a total failure. It wasn't, and isn't, a vax, it's a therapeutic - in fact, on it's face, when the vax came out then the infection rate went up - that's actually what the data presents, and that's not speculation.

The colt shot has over 25K adverse reactions - NOT speculation, cold hard facts, https://www.cdc.gov/coronaviru.../adverse-events.html

in fact, the number was so high, the CDC created VAERS https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesaf...ing/vaers/index.html

and all the virtue signaling around the vax was just that, virtue signaling

Anecdotal I know but I've had 3 shots. I apparently did have Covid once but only knew it because of a +ve test. No symptoms at all.

The fax wasn't perfect but its all we had at the time.

whew, more to unpack that one might expect. Feel free to skip this post

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

Funny how the Canadian govt. said get the shot, prove it, or you won't be allowed to cross the border.

-i wish "candian" accent was a font!!- whoa there,bud. That's the same Canada, with the same government, that declared martial law over a freedom of speech Issue - the EXACT same

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

Some other countries had the same mandate.

and were seriously mislead by the "Science" which was even more unsettled than climate change

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

I suppose they were all insane.

after the fact analysis of the ACTUAL results, well, insane wouldn't be the words i would you, rather "mislead" and "incorrect" would be closure to
no-emotional-outburst that I would use

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

And the anti-vaxxers were the sane bunch.

you do know what "anti-waxxers" is a label for the left, refusing actual, factual, useful vaccines, right? the groups bringing mumps and measles back? THAT group? frankly, since there wasn't ever an ACTUAL vax, calling people wanting actual LEGAL process as being SANE is not only pejoraive, it's 18--degrees backward. But modern "libbies" do tend to end up on the wrong side

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

That's the "sanity" that will be rampant next time, attacking the science, the doctors, you know - the trained ones in science and medicine.

Dude, seriously, literally NO ONE "attacked" the science. In "Science" we look at all the facts, not just those with confirmational bias. You might look that phrase up, "confirmation bias" and take a minute to examine why you like far left mindspace op-eds

opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
I tend to think you are right. The understandable reaction too the vaccine from those in govt, who had to be seen to be doing something, was to overreact and it got quite ugly in how they forced vaccination without admitting they were forcing it. It was ugly on both sides. At the time I was moderating a campfire section in another forum, and I was appalled at the taunts being thrown from bth sides. Had too end up telling everyone to make up thier own minds and the shut the fuck up about it.
But still we see it. Pro vac on here want too lay the blame on those who didnt take the vaccine and make it a wider political theme. Which it might well be in some context, but how much is a direct result of the attitude thrown at you?

IN NZ the story broke a few months ago that the govt had kept quiet and embargoed the information that some 11,000 medical staff had been given a vaccine exemption. We were told you lost your job in the medical industry if you didnt take the vaccine.
It wouldn't have help the situation I know, but 11000 medically minded people deciding the vaccine was too risky is worthy information.

There is a mindset pervading institutions that is really wrong. And people have a right too recognise the hypocrisy and silliness of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq7P0VYeLBQ

The trick is doing so and not delving into reciprocal stupidity.

What is interesting is that they were giving exemptions. In the US, especially in the bigger corporate medical companies, they fired lots of folks for refusing. From everything that we heard here NZ both was more insistent you get it, and no one questioned orthodoxy.

In fact, several of your countrymen were lecturing us on how "unscientific" we were.

I suspect given the relative size of the nations that you guys actually had a higher rate of refusal... and still a lower rate of problems... why (scientifically)?

I suspect because being a small nation, we were easier to lock down. Our lockdown was harsh! All most chinese harsh.

Also, the term antivaxer is over used. There were alot of people out there who have been happy getting the common vaccines, including the flue shot, who weighed up the options of getting Covid, which very early on was becoming clear if you were young and healthy it was unlikely to cause long term harm, or taking an experimental vaccine that had in many cases, had the usual cautions waived.

Funny how disinformation and misinformation and the doubt it causes, and the conspiracy theories, and the distrust, and Fox News all combined create a narrative that for practical matters has the same or more weight than actual facts.

I'm fully expecting Trump to be totally exonerated by the same means.

Whats your thoughts on factual information, thats withheld to fit an agenda? No matter how appropriate that agenda is.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
This from a guy who has gotten pretty much every vaccine out there...

The theoretical advantage of the vaccine was there, but the same scientists ignored science thoroughly, and as shown by the end results.

Shanks did point out the critical point...
The understandable reaction too the vaccine from those in govt, who had to be seen to be doing something, was to overreact and it got quite ugly in how they forced vaccination without admitting they were forcing it.

The science has been replete with unintended consequences over the years. Thalidomide (a teratogen, BTW, not really a carcinogen) was a particularly ugly example. The scientists knew this, and nevertheless decided to push for rapid runout based on their personal ethical views rather than a scientific approach of here are the risks, some of which are not quantifiable until we do further study.

I am OK with releasing experimental drugs to folks with that understanding; but to try and push it, and having colleagues disciplined and fired just because they have different personal ethics and judgement than the orthodoxy shows serious ethical flaws on the part of scientific leadership.

In general, as soon as you start thinking you know all or most things factually, you get caught in a serious error.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:

Funny how the truly insane are the ones who wanted to force this on everyone. Also looks like they seem to have forgotten their threatening words and wishes. Sick.

Funny how the Canadian govt. said get the shot, prove it, or you won't be allowed to cross the border.

Some other countries had the same mandate.

I suppose they were all insane.

And the anti-vaxxers were the sane bunch. That's the "sanity" that will be rampant next time, attacking the science, the doctors, you know - the trained ones in science and medicine.

Science…Folic acid treated grains…no benefits except maybe for pregnant women?

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Whats your thoughts on factual information, thats withheld to fit an agenda? No matter how appropriate that agenda is.

Your question is hypothetical, what if.

Of course, withholding factual information with intent is a lie just as much as disinformation is a lie.

What I saw during the whole episode including the present was an intentional campaign of lies and disinformation intending to sow doubt, and lots of theory.

So, the only source I trusted was my doctor, and CDC and WHO secondarily. Everything else was suspect to an unacceptable degree.

No my question is not hypothetical. It happened over here. And if it happened here I guarantee its happened in nearly every country.

So, what we see from M.E. is an assertion that information from those who did not or do not believe in the efficacy of the vaccines (known as anti-vaxxers) is suspect and based on lies and misinformation; while information from those who believe in the efficacy and accept the statistics as put forth by their side (we'll call them the pro-vaxxers) is based on truth and science.
When a man dies in a motorcycle accident, is found to have had covid, and is subsequently claimed as a covid death, that's truth and science. When headlines are intended to exaggerate covid infections and deaths (ie, Deaths in Montana up by 50% due to low vaccination rates. This was sort of true, deaths did go up from 8 to 12 but some were people who died with covid and not of covid), this is truth and science.
The insistence on equating resistance to mandatory vaccination with membership in the Trump cult is insulting. I do believe that a larger percentage of Trump followers were opposed to the coercion which was employed to promote the vaccines. My honest opinion in this whole thing is that there is plenty of stupid to go around.
Oh, and yes, the Canadian government was and is, insane. Regards, Bill

when important facts are GOVENMENTALLY suppressed, this is oppression. When the existence of the VAERS database is labeled misinformation and ordered suppressed by a "government" agency -

Yes, the "suppression" is the equal of out0right lies.