quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
you are right, 100%, 100% of the time, in all matters - except when you are in conflict with my wife, then she's right --

i mean, heck, it's apparent that you have spent 100% of your life in Texas, with a perfect understanding of all things Texas, and still, somehow, manage to mind your own business to boot.

You, sir, are an amazing individual of unspoken knowledge, wisdom, insight, and a perfect knowledge of everything

Amen

oh, "show him your badge"

quote:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
you are right, 100%, 100% of the time, in all matters - except when you are in conflict with my wife, then she's right --

i mean, heck, it's apparent that you have spent 100% of your life in Texas, with a perfect understanding of all things Texas, and still, somehow, manage to mind your own business to boot.

You, sir, are an amazing individual of unspoken knowledge, wisdom, insight, and a perfect knowledge of everything

Amen

oh, "show him your badge"

quote:

Lane's religion belongs in our schools no more than Rastafarianism does(a Federally recognized religion I may add).

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

How in the world is Texas an exception when it comes to the protections that each and every one of us has been granted to us by our Federal Government
You Texans sure can be a deluded lot.

quote:

Originally posted by Huvius:

quote:

Lane's religion belongs in our schools no more than Rastafarianism does(a Federally recognized religion I may add).

Odd choice. Rastafari and traditional Christians believe in the same God.
Quite similar in many ways.

I am very glad you used them as an example though.

Here's where the separation of Church and State as you would prefer it, gets quite sticky.

Are you in favor of banning every Reggae song with the word "Jah" from public schools?

Is displaying a picture of Bob Marley in the classroom unconstitutional because it could be viewed as promoting the Rastafari religion over another?

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

How in the world is Texas an exception when it comes to the protections that each and every one of us has been granted to us by our Federal Government
You Texans sure can be a deluded lot.

Say, Steve,
Let's DO be clear -- and I mean CLEAR -- You live in Colorado - "Weed" is ILLEGAL federally - and yet somehow your State voted to approve recreational weed in 2012, amendment 64, with a roughly 55/45% voting.

YOUR STATE trampled the rights and wishes of over a MILLION voter, and in frank violation of FEDERAL LAW, and passed the measure --

Sir, i encourage you to look in the mirror at your own state on "exceptionalism"

I do trust that 45% of the voters of your own state surpasses your threshold of significance.

hypocrite

but I am too, as I think weed should be as legal and regulated as booze

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

How in the world is Texas an exception when it comes to the protections that each and every one of us has been granted to us by our Federal Government
You Texans sure can be a deluded lot.

Say, Steve,
Let's DO be clear -- and I mean CLEAR -- You live in Colorado - "Weed" is ILLEGAL federally - and yet somehow your State voted to approve recreational weed in 2012, amendment 64, with a roughly 55/45% voting.

YOUR STATE trampled the rights and wishes of over a MILLION voter, and in frank violation of FEDERAL LAW, and passed the measure --

Sir, i encourage you to look in the mirror at your own state on "exceptionalism"

I do trust that 45% of the voters of your own state surpasses your threshold of significance.

hypocrite

but I am too, as I think weed should be as legal and regulated as booze

Nothing in Colorado Law requires that 45% to smoke pot in any form.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

How in the world is Texas an exception when it comes to the protections that each and every one of us has been granted to us by our Federal Government
You Texans sure can be a deluded lot.

Say, Steve,
Let's DO be clear -- and I mean CLEAR -- You live in Colorado - "Weed" is ILLEGAL federally - and yet somehow your State voted to approve recreational weed in 2012, amendment 64, with a roughly 55/45% voting.

YOUR STATE trampled the rights and wishes of over a MILLION voter, and in frank violation of FEDERAL LAW, and passed the measure -- federal law that is supposed to provide equal protection under the law

Sir, i encourage you to look in the mirror at your own state on "exceptionalism"

I do trust that 45% of the voters of your own state surpasses your threshold of significance.

hypocrite

but I am too, as I think weed should be as legal and regulated as booze

quote:

Originally posted by Huvius:

quote:

Lane's religion belongs in our schools no more than Rastafarianism does(a Federally recognized religion I may add).

Odd choice. Rastafari and traditional Christians believe in the same God.
Quite similar in many ways.

I am very glad you used them as an example though.

Here's where the separation of Church and State as you would prefer it, gets quite sticky.

Are you in favor of banning every Reggae song with the word "Jah" from public schools? No I am not in favor of banning Jah, Christmas carols or a teacher having a picture of Bob Marley, Jesus or the Pope on thier personal desk. I am totally against that same teaching leading a prayer of any type. It does get tricky, we sang gospel songs in public school, Christmas carol's etc. It did not bother me then and that is not a huge deal to me now. Seems different than the home room teacher starting the day with "The Lord's Prayer" though.

Is displaying a picture of Bob Marley in the classroom unconstitutional because it could be viewed as promoting the Rastafari religion over another?

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

How in the world is Texas an exception when it comes to the protections that each and every one of us has been granted to us by our Federal Government
You Texans sure can be a deluded lot.

Say, Steve,
Let's DO be clear -- and I mean CLEAR -- You live in Colorado - "Weed" is ILLEGAL federally - and yet somehow your State voted to approve recreational weed in 2012, amendment 64, with a roughly 55/45% voting.

YOUR STATE trampled the rights and wishes of over a MILLION voter, and in frank violation of FEDERAL LAW, and passed the measure -- federal law that is supposed to provide equal protection under the law

Sir, i encourage you to look in the mirror at your own state on "exceptionalism"

I do trust that 45% of the voters of your own state surpasses your threshold of significance.

hypocrite

but I am too, as I think weed should be as legal and regulated as booze

Try, try as you might, the minority still is protected from the majority imposing religion upon them.

And they should be too.....

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

Disgusting???

Certainly using the power of the Federal Government to control people at the local level is NOT in any way shape or form a libertarian concept…you cannot argue against that.

Yes, absolutely disgusting.

To you…I guess so. In Texas-13 (my US Congressional district) it polls about 80-90% favorable among all registered voters.

The public education system is part of our Government.

It is technically part of the State government.

The Federal Government has stepped in and said that those Government employees cannot favor any one religion over another,

No one wants “favoriing” of any religion.

that is not control but rather protecting the rights of individuals who do not want to be subjected to another's religious beliefs in public schools.

In Agriculture curriculum…slaughtering of livestock for food is taught. Doesn’t that offend the vegetarians, vegans, and animal rights people. There is no guarantees in the Constitution that you will be protected from something that “offends” you when it causes you absolutely no harm.

That is the benefit of living in a representative republic VS a democracy, our founders understood the value of protecting the rights of the minority from the tyranny of the majority.

I agree with that^^^100%.

I just don’t believe that “passive” prayer is something that is tyrannical in any shape or form.

No Libertarian would support a State sanctioned religion.

No one speaking of state sanctioned religion. Libertarians want small gvt with a hands-off approach to local communities.

You are not a Libertarian,

I am a Libertarian.

you are a religious zealot.

“ ”

It is plain to see for anyone paying attention.

What is plain to see is that “you” are no Libertarian and have no clue as to what Libertarianism actually is. You enjoy Government using its forceful hand to advance “your” ideology. I personally just want them to protect the borders, operate the government business in a fiscally responsible way, and follow the Constitution as it was originally intended. Since for the first 200 years prayer was allowed in schools…I am not buying it is banned by the Constitution and hopefully the current SCOTUS will correct that.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

Disgusting???

Certainly using the power of the Federal Government to control people at the local level is NOT in any way shape or form a libertarian concept…you cannot argue against that.

Yes, absolutely disgusting.

To you…I guess so. In Texas-13 (my US Congressional district) it polls about 80-90% favorable among all registered voters.

The public education system is part of our Government.

It is technically part of the State government.

The Federal Government has stepped in and said that those Government employees cannot favor any one religion over another,

No one wants “favoriing” of any religion.

that is not control but rather protecting the rights of individuals who do not want to be subjected to another's religious beliefs in public schools.

In Agriculture curriculum…slaughtering of livestock for food is taught. Doesn’t that offend the vegetarians, vegans, and animal rights people. There is no guarantees in the Constitution that you will be protected from something that “offends” you when it causes you absolutely no harm.

That is the benefit of living in a representative republic VS a democracy, our founders understood the value of protecting the rights of the minority from the tyranny of the majority.

I agree with that^^^100%.

I just don’t believe that “passive” prayer is something that is tyrannical in any shape or form.

No Libertarian would support a State sanctioned religion.

No one speaking of state sanctioned religion. Libertarians want small gvt with a hands-off approach to local communities.

You are not a Libertarian,

I am a Libertarian.

you are a religious zealot.

“ ”

It is plain to see for anyone paying attention.

What is plain to see is that “you” are no Libertarian and have no clue as to what Libertarianism actually is. You enjoy Government using its forceful hand to advance “your” ideology. I personally just want them to protect the borders, operate the government business in a fiscally responsible way, and follow the Constitution as it was originally intended. Since for the first 200 years prayer was allowed in schools…I am not buying it is banned by the Constitution and hopefully the current SCOTUS will correct that.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

Disgusting???

Certainly using the power of the Federal Government to control people at the local level is NOT in any way shape or form a libertarian concept…you cannot argue against that.

Yes, absolutely disgusting.

To you…I guess so. In Texas-13 (my US Congressional district) it polls about 80-90% favorable among all registered voters. That 10-20% that do not want your religion is the issue, the minority is protected in this case from the from the majority imposing religion upon them.

The public education system is part of our Government.

It is technically part of the State government. Exactly my point, private parochial school is the place to pray aloud, not public schools.

The Federal Government has stepped in and said that those Government employees cannot favor any one religion over another,

No one wants “favoriing” of any religion. I completely disagree, you stated yesterday that athiests were not suitable role models. You clearly favor Christianity in a public school setting.

that is not control but rather protecting the rights of individuals who do not want to be subjected to another's religious beliefs in public schools.

In Agriculture curriculum…slaughtering of livestock for food is taught. Doesn’t that offend the vegetarians, vegans, and animal rights people. There is no guarantees in the Constitution that you will be protected from something that “offends” you when it causes you absolutely no harm. None of those issues are religion, the State has no place in forwarding religious beliefs. Vegans are not constitutionally protected.

That is the benefit of living in a representative republic VS a democracy, our founders understood the value of protecting the rights of the minority from the tyranny of the majority.

I agree with that^^^100%.

I just don’t believe that “passive” prayer is something that is tyrannical in any shape or form. You have not been advocating for passive prayer, I have no issue with that nor do I know anyone who does. You have been advocating for elders leading prayer at the start of the school day, that is not passive at all.

No Libertarian would support a State sanctioned religion.

No one speaking of state sanctioned religion. Libertarians want small gvt with a hands-off approach to local communities. You are trying to put lipsticjk on a pig, it is still a pig. The school is part of the State, you want elders reading prayer aloud to start the school day, that is the State sanctioning religion. No doubt about it.

You are not a Libertarian,

I am a Libertarian.

you are a religious zealot.

“ ” The truth is hard to take at times.

It is plain to see for anyone paying attention.

What is plain to see is that “you” are no Libertarian and have no clue as to what Libertarianism actually is. You enjoy Government using its forceful hand to advance “your” ideology. I personally just want them to protect the borders, operate the government business in a fiscally responsible way, and follow the Constitution as it was originally intended. Since for the first 200 years prayer was allowed in schools…I am not buying it is banned by the Constitution and hopefully the current SCOTUS will correct that.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

Disgusting???

Certainly using the power of the Federal Government to control people at the local level is NOT in any way shape or form a libertarian concept…you cannot argue against that.

Yes, absolutely disgusting.

To you…I guess so. In Texas-13 (my US Congressional district) it polls about 80-90% favorable among all registered voters. That 10-20% that do not want your religion is the issue, the minority is protected in this case from the from the majority imposing religion upon them.

The public education system is part of our Government.

It is technically part of the State government. Exactly my point, private parochial school is the place to pray aloud, not public schools.

The Federal Government has stepped in and said that those Government employees cannot favor any one religion over another,

No one wants “favoriing” of any religion. I completely disagree, you stated yesterday that athiests were not suitable role models. You clearly favor Christianity in a public school setting.

that is not control but rather protecting the rights of individuals who do not want to be subjected to another's religious beliefs in public schools.

In Agriculture curriculum…slaughtering of livestock for food is taught. Doesn’t that offend the vegetarians, vegans, and animal rights people. There is no guarantees in the Constitution that you will be protected from something that “offends” you when it causes you absolutely no harm. None of those issues are religion, the State has no place in forwarding religious beliefs. Vegans are not constitutionally protected.

That is the benefit of living in a representative republic VS a democracy, our founders understood the value of protecting the rights of the minority from the tyranny of the majority.

I agree with that^^^100%.

I just don’t believe that “passive” prayer is something that is tyrannical in any shape or form. You have not been advocating for passive prayer, I have no issue with that nor do I know anyone who does. You have been advocating for elders leading prayer at the start of the school day, that is not passive at all.

No Libertarian would support a State sanctioned religion.

No one speaking of state sanctioned religion. Libertarians want small gvt with a hands-off approach to local communities. You are trying to put lipsticjk on a pig, it is still a pig. The school is part of the State, you want elders reading prayer aloud to start the school day, that is the State sanctioning religion. No doubt about it.

You are not a Libertarian,

I am a Libertarian.

you are a religious zealot.

“ ” The truth is hard to take at times.

It is plain to see for anyone paying attention.

What is plain to see is that “you” are no Libertarian and have no clue as to what Libertarianism actually is. You enjoy Government using its forceful hand to advance “your” ideology. I personally just want them to protect the borders, operate the government business in a fiscally responsible way, and follow the Constitution as it was originally intended. Since for the first 200 years prayer was allowed in schools…I am not buying it is banned by the Constitution and hopefully the current SCOTUS will correct that.

No, you want the Government to promote your religious views and to become involved in other peoples most personal aspects of their life.

Wrong

That is not libertarian in the least.

Getting Federal government totally of the community government IS a Libertarian goal.

I want Government out of the private life of citizens.

No you don’t. You want them to use there heavy hand to “regulate” schools (state government) to fit “your” ideology.

Prayer is still allowed in schools, private and parochial schools.

And you hit upon the key word…”allowed!” It should be allowed when and where the local community wants it. It harms no one. The Constitution guarantees no one the protection from being “offended” by it no more than it protects the vegan/vegetarian/animal rights activists from being offended by the teachings of livestock utilization for food.

That my friend is how a Libertarian thinks.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
n.

What is plain to see is that “you” are no Libertarian and have no clue as to what Libertarianism actually is. You enjoy Government using its forceful hand to advance “your” ideology. I personally just want them to protect the borders, operate the government business in a fiscally responsible way, and follow the Constitution as it was originally intended. Since for the first 200 years prayer was allowed in schools…I am not buying it is banned by the Constitution and hopefully the current SCOTUS will correct that.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
The above is getting too convoluted.

People are no more protected “from” religion than the vegan from livestock utilization by the Constitution.

The Constitution guarantees people have the “to” worship how they wish or abstain.

School elders “ad libing” a prayer in public is NOT teaching religion.

Libertarians want the Fed Government to be totally out of the lives of local communities.

They want borders protected, physically responsible government business, and adherence to the Constitution as written.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
The Federal Government adds no expenditure to allow school officials to ad lib a prayer as warranted by their discretion.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

School elders “ad libing” a prayer in public is NOT teaching religion.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

School elders “ad libing” a prayer in public is NOT teaching religion.

Another ridiculous statement from the religious fringe of the GOP. So you seriously maintain that a child, seven or eight years old, that looks up to their teacher, principal, etc. does not have their views regarding religion affected by seeing and hearing a role model in their life pray aloud in front of the class? Seriously? But the greater irony is that the same people that say that prayer in school has no impact on a child's view of religion are quick to tell us how the school system is indoctrinating children with progressive ideas while their minds are young and malleable. So, let's review, children are naive and prone to influence when it comes to progressive ideas and influences but insofar as religion and prayer is concerned children are much more discerning and able to form their own independent views. Amazing. You cannot make this crap up.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
The above is getting too convoluted.

People are no more protected “from” religion than the vegan from livestock utilization by the Constitution.

The Constitution guarantees people have the “to” worship how they wish or abstain.

School elders “ad libing” a prayer in public is NOT teaching religion.

Libertarians want the Fed Government to be totally out of the lives of local communities.

They want borders protected, physically responsible government business, and adherence to the Constitution as written.

Your full it. You want it both ways, you want to use the Government to push your religious views upon everyone,

Full of it? Hardly! You are the pot calling the kettle black here.

IE Abortion,

Abortion is taking of a life. All people have the right to life under our Constitution.

prayer in schools,

All Libertarians are fine with others praying.

gay marriage etc,

Not a biggie with me. Should have NOT been called marriage and Civil Union should have been the term. Again, no mountain for me to die on.

and at the same time claim you are Libertarian and want the Government out of people's lives.

Correct! Current they are inhibiting local communities.

What you want is for the local Government to be able to set rules and regulations enforcing and allow your religion and worldview upon everybodyfreedom “of” religion.

That is not Libertarian at all.

What “I” am saying (not your bastardization) IS Libertarianism.

You want a Theocracy,

No sir!

we do not live in one.

Agreed

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Hey Steve,
can I see YOUR badge for "Gatekeeper of Libertarianism" --

Ain't interfering with Lane's concept NOT minding your own business? Or is it above your "threshhold" for NGAF like mutating minors?

Just trying to be clear which way you are breaking to be a hypocrite

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Hey Steve,
can I see YOUR badge for "Gatekeeper of Libertarianism" --

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
I just hate to see a lie repeated over and over again until the simpletons follow along. He is in no way endorsing Libertarianism. Can either of you show me where the Libertarian party platform calls for promoting religion or school prayer via the Government? Local, State or Federal? I do not believe that you can.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
I just hate to see a lie repeated over and over again until the simpletons follow along. He is in no way endorsing Libertarianism. Can either of you show me where the Libertarian party platform calls for promoting religion or school prayer via the Government? Local, State or Federal? I do not believe that you can.

I wish I was perfect a human being as you - you are just amazing

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:



I wish I was perfect a human being as you - you are just amazing

Was that your way of saying you could find nothing in the Libertarian party platform that calls for the Government promoting religion or school prayer ? I thought maybe

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Hey Steve,
can I see YOUR badge for "Gatekeeper of Libertarianism" --

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Nah, steve..
that's your tube, i suspect your are getting low .. might refill your stock from amazon, or do you have a case?

quote:

Originally posted by skb:


I believe now would be the time to admit that both you and Lane are wrong about the position of the Libertarian party regarding school prayer