quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:


A school elder praying aloud openly is not forcing anything on anyone. It is called setting an example…being a positive role model.

Believe it or not Steve, there are some general principles that are universal. “What works for me”…would work for many if they applied the same principles. Like I always say when people are calling some successful person and idiot. Rich men did not get rich by being dumb. Those who think they did or are…are the ones who fund them

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:


A school elder praying aloud openly is not forcing anything on anyone. It is called setting an example…being a positive role model.

Believe it or not Steve, there are some general principles that are universal. “What works for me”…would work for many if they applied the same principles. Like I always say when people are calling some successful person and idiot. Rich men did not get rich by being dumb. Those who think they did or are…are the ones who fund them

You might be the most myopic individual I have ever encountered.

You are hardly the only successful, wealthy person out there Lane, not all of them share your religious conviction. What works for you is fine, you trying to push that model on others is the problem.

A positive role model eh? Do you included all the child molesters hiding in the church among those fine examples?

You are not nearly as smart as you think you are.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

I've known some very smart people, not one of whom found it necessary to ever tell anyone how smart they were.

You could tell.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:


A school elder praying aloud openly is not forcing anything on anyone. It is called setting an example…being a positive role model.

Believe it or not Steve, there are some general principles that are universal. “What works for me”…would work for many if they applied the same principles. Like I always say when people are calling some successful person and idiot. Rich men did not get rich by being dumb. Those who think they did or are…are the ones who fund them

You might be the most myopic individual I have ever encountered.

You are hardly the only successful, wealthy person out there Lane, not all of them share your religious conviction. What works for you is fine, you trying to push that model on others is the problem.

A positive role model eh? Do you included all the child molesters hiding in the church among those fine examples?

You are not nearly as smart as you think you are.

One thing for sure though…you have no idea or objective means to make assessment.

Like a lot of people…it make you feel good to say it.

Matters not to me…the proof is in the pudding.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
All I have to go on is your statements, they prove you to be a closed minded religious zealot.

And those are his best qualities.

Plenty of proof out there. The smartest, most successful guy I know is an avowed atheist.

You are only special in your own mind(I'm sure your mother thinks your "special" too).

quote:

You might be the most myopic individual I have ever encountered.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

I've known some very smart people, not one of whom found it necessary to ever tell anyone how smart they were.

You could tell.

My experience mirrors yours.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

I've known some very smart people, not one of whom found it necessary to ever tell anyone how smart they were.

You could tell.

My experience mirrors yours.

Ya'll must not have met many engineers, doctors, and/or EdD academics -- that's a joke, not a criticism

afterthought --
or lawyers

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

You might be the most myopic individual I have ever encountered.

Myopic?

You are a self-professed professional hermit. You don’t employ anyone or deal with any public except for a few eccentric antique gun buyers.

Me…I deal with a large segment of the public. We currently have about a 100,000 active clients across our businesses and I employ just less than 100 individuals…some professional and some lay.

I work with the public on a daily basis, coach a baseball team, and sit on multiple boards. I am not myopic in my community and have a good grasp of my community’s and clients needs, wants, and desires. I recognize my local community differs from my client base which now spans 6 continents.

You are the myopic one…you see and react to only what affects you! You admit as much here all the time when discussing. You: “Not my bag”…you commonly reply with your blinders and ear muffs on. Your world is small.

quote:

are convinced others are not entitled to live the way they see fit, but should live how you want them to.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

are convinced others are not entitled to live the way they see fit, but should live how you want them to.

Somebody must have beat with a Bible as a child or something. You have this incredibly distorted view I and most Christians. I am sorry for your scars but please try an seek therapy.

Your quote above is 180° opposite from me. I mostly vote for the most libertarian candidate. In political quizzes…I always come out as a Libertarian. I have disdain for most all Government intrusions on our lives.

If you “actually” knew me…you would see me as a Libertarian live-and-let-live person because that is who I am. In regards to prayer in schools…that is what We (my community) fight for…to be left to live our lives as we see fit.

Myopic is a good descriptor for you on Christians.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
You told us when you posted about Dens or Biden being “unfaithful.”

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
You told us when you posted about Dens or Biden being “unfaithful.”

No…I didn’t. Someone made the statement that I was divorced (who had to have researched it) and I “acknowledged” that yes, I was.

It is true. I do not deny…never have. But it was a dark time in my life that I NEVER go around talking about.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
To me the issue is what some define as endorsing religious teaching.

I think we all agree that someone should not be forced to say a prayer.

However, I think most don’t consider having a time dedicated to prayer/contemplation built in to a public school day is endorsing religious teaching… even if the coach is one of the folks praying. I don’t consider having a minister offering a prayer at an event like a graduation ceremony is endorsing it, either.

I do think that going to court to stop it is an infringement by the secular humanists in enforcing their beliefs on others.

The left goes on about mutual respect. Then they do this kind of thing. Hypocritical.

To some folks, religion is central to their identity. I think more folks consider themselves Christians of some stripe than not in this country… that being the case, I don’t see a non forcing opportunity for religious expression as meeting “endorsing” religion.

If the community decides they want to allow the Muslim call to prayer on the PA system, but don’t make you pray to Allah, that’s not endorsing either.

Where I work (governmental) they routinely announce on the PA system whatever religious service is happening and where. They also pay a chaplain.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
To me the issue is what some define as endorsing religious teaching.

I think we all agree that someone should not be forced to say a prayer.

However, I think most don’t consider having a time dedicated to prayer/contemplation built in to a public school day is endorsing religious teaching… even if the coach is one of the folks praying. I don’t consider having a minister offering a prayer at an event like a graduation ceremony is endorsing it, either.

I do think that going to court to stop it is an infringement by the secular humanists in enforcing their beliefs on others.

The left goes on about mutual respect. Then they do this kind of thing. Hypocritical.

To some folks, religion is central to their identity. I think more folks consider themselves Christians of some stripe than not in this country… that being the case, I don’t see a non forcing opportunity for religious expression as meeting “endorsing” religion.

If the community decides they want to allow the Muslim call to prayer on the PA system, but don’t make you pray to Allah, that’s not endorsing either.

Where I work (governmental) they routinely announce on the PA system whatever religious service is happening and where. They also pay a chaplain.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
To me the issue is what some define as endorsing religious teaching.

I think we all agree that someone should not be forced to say a prayer.

However, I think most don’t consider having a time dedicated to prayer/contemplation built in to a public school day is endorsing religious teaching… even if the coach is one of the folks praying. I don’t consider having a minister offering a prayer at an event like a graduation ceremony is endorsing it, either.

I do think that going to court to stop it is an infringement by the secular humanists in enforcing their beliefs on others.

The left goes on about mutual respect. Then they do this kind of thing. Hypocritical.

To some folks, religion is central to their identity. I think more folks consider themselves Christians of some stripe than not in this country… that being the case, I don’t see a non forcing opportunity for religious expression as meeting “endorsing” religion.

If the community decides they want to allow the Muslim call to prayer on the PA system, but don’t make you pray to Allah, that’s not endorsing either.

Where I work (governmental) they routinely announce on the PA system whatever religious service is happening and where. They also pay a chaplain.

"Offering a prayer" at a publicly-run institution constitutes an endorsement and forces it on all in attendance, regardless of their belief structure.

How about twice a year we open all high school games with a prayer offered by the Church of Satan, just for a little variety. You okay with that?

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Research you? Don’t flatter yourself. You love talking about yourself enough, you do not have to one of the country’s greatest statisticians or a world-renowned vet to be able to understand what is really going on.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Perhaps it is simply when a general point hits too close to home, you take it personal.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
The only person to blame for bringing Lane’s divorce into the conversation is . . . Lane. He raised it. My comment months ago about divorce was a general comment pointing out the hypocrisy of the pious in wanting to throw stones at others while living in their own glass house.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Church of Satan? Satanic Temple? Local Temple/Mosque - sure let em.

I believe the general religious concept is that sin is between god and the sinner - seems to be pretty common across several religions and philosophies.

I extend to Dr. Easter more

Ya'll going after Lane personally about a divorce is a bit sh!tty - but you won't care, you'll justify it and carry-on .. you won't care about me saying "shame on you, too" .. but i have ZERO religious standing to say so

Funny how the left is SUPPOSED to be tolerant and accepting, but wow, it's true... UNLESS it goes against their own point/onjective

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Research you? Don’t flatter yourself. You love talking about yourself enough, you do not have to one of the country’s greatest statisticians or a world-renowned vet to be able to understand what is really going on.

Again, it is public record, and I don’t hide from it. That said…not a subject I talk about either. In fact, I am 100% certain that I never spoke about it here.

Pretty sure it was you that brought it up initially and in such a manner which was telling you had already looked it up.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Research you? Don’t flatter yourself. You love talking about yourself enough, you do not have to one of the country’s greatest statisticians or a world-renowned vet to be able to understand what is really going on.

Again, it is public record, and I don’t hide from it. That said…not a subject I talk about either. In fact, I am 100% certain that I never spoke about it here.

Pretty sure it was you that brought it up initially and in such a manner which was telling you had already looked it up.

You just said you affirmed it in that thread. That means you told us.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Dr. Easter, I happy to say you are not most Christians.

Speculation on your part. I certainly fit in in the middle of the crowd in TX-13.

The Church I was baptized in would not let you get married in the building nor the pastor conduct the wedding service or hold any position in the Church. That is because you are a divorced person. They are wrong too.

I am not trying to change their minds. They are free to view it how they choose.

I give the Pastor his due. When his wife left him he resigned, and never preached again.

You are no better, some would say worse than those you spitefully condemn.

I condemn no one.

You are certainly no more saved, blessed, nor Christian than I.

I am Saved. Only you can answer that question for yourself…I take you at your word. To the rest of that statement…I have no knowledge about you to even speculate. I am a Christian and I have been blessed in life with more than I deserve.

Jesus does not give one drop of his blood on the cross for your worldly possessions.

Amen

Jesus does not care what you have gained by your labor.

Amen

Remember the parable about the servants in the vineyard. The one who did not work but an hour got the same compensation. When the folk that are meant to represent you in the parable complained, the property owner, master, who represents Jesus told them:

‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’

The parable was about greed, jealousy, and coveting others possessions. Not sure of your application here.

And Paul wrote: “If you don’t work, you don’t eat.” A rule among the Apostles.

“So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”

Amen

Your “reward@ in heaven is no more then a saved gay person’s “reward.”

As I have stated many times…we are ALL God’s children. Not one among is greater in the eyes of God. The “only” way to the Father is through Jesus Christ.

Your material wealth, any of ours, is not the purpose or even a side affect if salvation.

Amen! Salvation is it’s own reward.

Blessings however take on many shapes and forms for those who find favor with God.

Do what you wish with your money, but leave Jesus out if it.

Why would I leave Jesus out of that aspect of my life? I don’t do anything in life where I leave Jesus out. Money is a key element in today’s world of carrying out the work of Jesus.

He granted you the ability.

A blessing.

You were not saved into it.

Amen.

Not even sure of your line of reasoning here. Of course Salvation has zero to do with ability of wealth.

I know you by your word. Your words condemn you for the man SKB describes.

You and SKB spend a lot of time putting words into my mouth and vilifying me for the scoundrel you both want me to be. Y’all do not define me nor do y’all grasp who I am or what I am about. I am often amazed by both’s inability to see things in a broader scope.

Now, what you want to believe, teach your children, preach on the above religious issues is your prerogative. The State simply cannot do it for/with you.

I do not ask “the State” to do it…never have. That said…the Founders never envisioned a government devoid of religion.

Still waiting for you to explain why you do not take the same position the local governments be allied to exercise the will of their majorities and restrict firearms possession which was the Original Intent of the Bill of Rights.

Joshua,
I listen to what you write. You have taught me to see the Incorporation Doctrine in a new light. I give credit where credit is due. As to the Original Intent of the Bill of Rights…I simply do not agree with you there. SCOTUS decisions are just the opinion of the majority of 9 people. They get it wrong sometimes.

No Court has ever held your interpretation of Religious freedom.

It was never really tested in courts until a very liberal era began. I believe the era has changed. Court rulings are merely opinions and opinions change.

The Fed Government could not do as you deserve, and state governments no longer could once the 1st Amendment was applied to the states. The reason is the religion portion has TWO CLAUSES that must be read in Harmony. The Founders were smarter than you. They knew to allow the majority to force religious teaching was tyranny.

For the umpteen millionth time…nobody wants to force religion onto anyone.

And make no mistake about it…The Founders never envisioned a government “devoid” of religion. They wanted freedom “of” religion NOT freedom “from” religion. They were all religious men and their faith shaped our government.

Originally, their goal was to compromise and limit the power of the New Federal Government to get states to co-sign,join.

Why do you not apply this local jurisdiction power to firearms? It is simple, you like that Fed Right.

That right is ‘specifically’ spelled out in the Constitution and as I read…did not require the concept of the Incorporation Doctrine.

You do not like the Fed Right for folks not to be preached,

Just FYI, prayer and preaching are 2 different things.

instructed, and forced to say the state mandated religious sacraments.

More of you putting words in my mouth. Never advocated for by me.

You are a lier.

No sir…I am not. However, you are or at least you are incapable of interpreting written conversation as most of what you say I said…I did not.

That may make you mad. You may not care.

I certainly don’t care what you think of me. However I do expect you to quote what I actually say…not your bastardized paraphrase. You are fond of putting words in my mouth…that does piss me off.

However, it is true. You are not a libertarian.

I may not be a Libertarian in the purest sense but in the broader sense, my political views fit the Libertarian category better than any other. Certainly, I am a small and hands-off government type of guy.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
Freedom "of" religion includes being free "from" someone's religion with which you do not agree.

I disagree. Lots of things within our government I disagree with that I am not free from.

Prayer reading in a public school most certainly is forcing religion upon others.

Disagree.

Church of cannabis OK? The seven tribes? Not so much. Same for evangelicals who would turn children against their own parents.

“”

You are free to worship as you see fit, you do not have the right to push those views upon others who may see things differently.

Pushing views? That is hard topic. Is being a good role-model or leading by example…pushing views???

What if the parents freeload off the government but the shop teacher teaches them a trade and how to go to work??? Is that pushing views?