https://youtu.be/EM8t0aaaFMc?si=P3xOhHYIk20SQ7JW

a brand new video put out by the bipartisan group Mission: Democracy, whose goal is to publicly call out MAGA Republicans and label their actions across the country as fascism.

https://youtu.be/sdmsHUAibbM?si=PxD4IOlBwzJT-C7-

Simply couldn't be part of it': Fmr. prosecutor breaks silence on quitting Trump-Russia probe

https://youtu.be/_vI8Wt3omoQ?si=qEm-C473CIPLrubx

A general reporting to an unstable president': Report exposes challenges for Milley under Trump

https://youtu.be/wB39JgjNXtg?si=DMFvFyYA2b5_nj9u

How Gen. Milley fought to contain an unstable Trump, protect 'stability' of democracy

https://youtu.be/Tjko-FuU79Q?si=Nut_Ws6eRaKDh_Xc

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
https://youtu.be/EM8t0aaaFMc?si=P3xOhHYIk20SQ7JW

a brand new video put out by the bipartisan group Mission: Democracy, whose goal is to publicly call out MAGA Republicans and label their actions across the country as fascism.

https://youtu.be/sdmsHUAibbM?si=PxD4IOlBwzJT-C7-

Simply couldn't be part of it': Fmr. prosecutor breaks silence on quitting Trump-Russia probe

https://youtu.be/_vI8Wt3omoQ?si=qEm-C473CIPLrubx

A general reporting to an unstable president': Report exposes challenges for Milley under Trump

https://youtu.be/wB39JgjNXtg?si=DMFvFyYA2b5_nj9u

How Gen. Milley fought to contain an unstable Trump, protect 'stability' of democracy

Unfortunately the vast majority of MAGAts are too ignorant of history to realize they are supporting fascism, exactly what WWII was fought to defeat.

I wonder about the claim that they are ignorant - of history and/or the present, and the associated notion of "realize".

What if they aren't ignorant and do realize what they are doing and why?

The old saying "ya can't fix stupid" or ignorance IMO is really not true. It can be fixed with information, facts, evidence. So, we have plenty of the stuff that logically fixes stupid/ignorance - there's no shortage. Yet the ignorance/stupid is persistent.

Maybe they know what they are doing.

Maybe some of us recognize that the political Left has more Fascist tendencies than the Right.
Could be that…

quote:

Originally posted by Huvius:
Maybe some of us recognize that the political Left has more Fascist tendencies than the Right.
Could be that…

Fascism has always been a far-right movement, characterized by loyalty to a dictatorial leader, nationalism, social conservatism and racism.

quote:

Originally posted by Huvius:
Maybe some of us recognize believe that the political Left has more Fascist tendencies than the Right.
Could be that…

Yes indeed, it could be that!!!

So, I take it that you are opposed to "fascist tendencies"?

The rabbit hole of beliefs that are false is deep for this movement of fascism to capture so many people.

You named just one. There's communism attributed to the Left too.

So, the argument is still an open question -- stupid/ignorant or not? Which is worse - regarding trajectory and outcome?

quote:

Originally posted by Huvius:
Maybe some of us recognize that the political Left has more Fascist tendencies than the Right.
Could be that…

it is hard to tell, sometimes

Jeff = let's JUST say that 1940 USA would be called fascist today.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Huvius:
Maybe some of us recognize that the political Left has more Fascist tendencies than the Right.
Could be that…

it is hard to tell, sometimes

Jeff = let's JUST say that 1940 USA would be called fascist today.

The 1940 when FDR was re-elected?

quote:

Unfortunately the vast majority of MAGAts are too ignorant of history to realize they are supporting fascism, exactly what WWII was fought to defeat.

Exactly, Brian

Give us the definition.

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
Give us the definition.

You missed your last two tuition payments.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
Give us the definition.

You missed your last two tuition payments.

now THAT actually made me laugh

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
Give us the definition.

You missed your last two tuition payments.

Under any accepted definition of the term, the American political Left checks those boxes, not Trump. You’d know this if you paid attention rather than screaming into your echo chamber.

Damn! Sounds like the Democrat Party. Racist, dictatorial, loyalty to the authoritarian movement and it's leader Barack Obama.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Huvius:
Maybe some of us recognize that the political Left has more Fascist tendencies than the Right.
Could be that…

Fascism has always been a far-right movement, characterized by loyalty to a dictatorial leader, nationalism, social conservatism and racism.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
Give us the definition.

You missed your last two tuition payments.

now THAT actually made me laugh

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
Give us the definition.

You missed your last two tuition payments.

Under any accepted definition of the term, the American political Left checks those boxes, not Trump. You’d know this if you paid attention rather than screaming into your echo chamber.

yall know both parties can check various boxes, right?

Check these boxes:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...c6189a8dfe8da5&ei=38

The Left is right to fear our plan to gut the federal bureaucracy
Story by Mike Gonzalez • 11h

Mike Gonzalez is a senior fellow at the Heritage Foundation

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
https://youtu.be/EM8t0aaaFMc?si=P3xOhHYIk20SQ7JW

a brand new video put out by the bipartisan group Mission: Democracy, whose goal is to publicly call out MAGA Republicans and label their actions across the country as fascism.

https://youtu.be/sdmsHUAibbM?si=PxD4IOlBwzJT-C7-

Simply couldn't be part of it': Fmr. prosecutor breaks silence on quitting Trump-Russia probe

https://youtu.be/_vI8Wt3omoQ?si=qEm-C473CIPLrubx

A general reporting to an unstable president': Report exposes challenges for Milley under Trump

https://youtu.be/wB39JgjNXtg?si=DMFvFyYA2b5_nj9u

How Gen. Milley fought to contain an unstable Trump, protect 'stability' of democracy

Unfortunately the vast majority of MAGAts are too ignorant of history to realize they are supporting fascism, exactly what WWII was fought to defeat.

And the other side is too stupid to realize they are supporting communism!

This is why folks believe election interference. This is why they believe the government, the media and its employees are in concerted illegal effort to thwart the will of the people. How? Why? You may ask. What wouldn’t you do? What actions couldn’t be justified in stopping Hitler and the third reich? When you label something or someone as fascist you acknowledge it needs stopped by any means necessary. Legal illegal moral immoral doesn’t matter. You actually suppress any validity to your points by espousing this view. And if in fact you truly truly believe/know that this a fascist movement hell bent on destroying this country and the world, spamming an internet forum with posts to save the world is limp dick. If you truly believe this fascism BS nothing is out of bounds. Man up and do something. Save the world…please for all humanity.

You asked "how", "why", "what actions are justified" after you offered an answer. You are saying that belief in lies is justification for --------

Then you flip it, saying that the label of "fascism" for the movement of the Right which is based in large part on lies, also justifies -----------

Then you go into an attack rant. The irony is that you accuse others of being counterproductive in using the word "fascist".

What's going on there? Are you projecting? Are you as frustrated as I am?

Maybe the buzzword "fascist" is counterproductive? What's the alternative?
=====================================

I had a recent upsetting conversation with a close relative. It started with her Bible quote - something like - "being a real Christian means following the ways and teachings in the Bible of Jesus, and then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free".

So, I asked her "what is the "truth", and how do you "know" truth? She said "God".

She went on to say that she could tell for certain right and wrong by reading the Bible and the words of and about Jesus.

So, I asked her what Jesus would say about Trump?

Then she broke into her views of conservativism, slack govt, right to life, closed borders, Christian Nation, and opposition to UN and Ukraine support, and so forth, etc., some of which I agreed with. But agreement or disagreement wasn't my point. Since she mentioned it, I asked about the borders, and she specifically said we have "open borders" under Biden admin, the Left approves killing babies after borne, and some other outright lies which she "knows" are true. I can't remember all of the lies she "knows" are true. She justified Trump by simply saying trust in God, he is in charge. She said she "knows" that liberals are trying to destroy the constitution and the rule of law. So, I took that to mean that she "Knows" that due to all the indictments of Trump, and specifically, lately, the judicial gag orders for Trump to shut his nasty mouth, quit intimidating, lying, threatening witnesses, potential jurors and judges. She said that's violating freedom of speech, weaponization of the judiciary, etc. -- basically lies. I asked if she thought Trump is a Christian, and if he's being persecuted like Christ? The answer of course was nuanced, but basically yes. She did show one clue of sanity when I mentioned the WH spiritual representative, Paula White, and IMO she is crazy. We agreed on that and I could see it set her back a little.

So, I followed the thread of persecution a bit, with this quote: ""When Conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they won't abandon Conservatism they'll abandon Democracy"-

She agreed, that scripture and Jesus come first over Govt.

I then took some time to explain the origins of the so-called "Social Contract" and how it related to Jefferson, Locke and other philosophers, and how the constitution and rule of law are the "Social Contract", for 240+ years.

The conversation continued - with her belief that there will come a time, the rapture, etc., when Christian conservatives will have to make a choice between govt and God, Christ's teachings, etc.

I said, that time has already happened. You and other Christians have chosen to believe, "know as truth", Trump, and the lies of his allies, and all the associated BS, including the narrative that the left has weaponized the constitution, congress and rule of law, and the prosecutors and judiciary are in cahoots and corrupt.

So, that means that you have given up on the Founding Principles, the Social Contract, the govt., and substituted what you "know as Truth".

She said "I am appalled". I'm not sure what she was appalled about, my views or a glimpse of reality, but I left, before I said more.

So, all this talk or suggestions, in the previous post seem well-intended. But how can anyone breakthrough with what I have described?

Christianity is just one aspect of it, BTW.

=================================================

So, is what I described a form of fascism, and what can be done other than calling it out, perhaps using another descriptive word(s) other than fascism?

Is 'appalled" enough? BTW, I didn't use the word "fascism" in the above described conversation.

I do find it humorous that when called on to define fascism, the folks who cry the right in the US is fascist are unable to define fascism without the term far right.

Fascism and communism are two faces of the same coin. Absolute authoritarian regimes whose differences are what they claim is the source of their authority.

Yes, communism is the form of authoritarianism that develops out of the left, and fascism out of the right; at least historically.

I have offered several definitions of neo-fascism, from reliable sources. I refuse to take the bait and write my own definition. You can find that humorous or not, I don't care. I'm not here to please you.

It wouldn't matter anyway. If you and others can refuse the definitions from those who know what they are talking about, my definitions are nothing. You are offended by appeal to authority anyway.

Your goal is to divert the point.

So, instead of fascism let's call it Trumpism. I defy you to claim and explain/support that Trumpism has no elements of fascism. I can easily claim and support that Trumpism is akin to fascism, and you know it.

Here's an article that explains a lot, if you would just bother to read it.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...fptaskbarhover&ei=27

Is America uniquely vulnerable to tyranny?
Opinion by Zack Beauchamp • 13h

==============================================

https://www.msn.com/en-us/vide...cid=socialshare&t=80

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...631f0e017eb840&ei=23

Column: Trump has a second-term agenda, and it's more terrifying than ever
Opinion by Doyle McManus • 1d
LA Times

The problem with your contention and the sources you quote (and note they call it “neofascism” because it ain’t fascism… is that individual elements of fascism and communism are found in all political structures. By and large it’s a subjective “amount” that gets the label from poly sci types that are trying to advance their careers by publishing.

In general, a real fascist (like a real communist) will admit that’s who they are.

If you want to say Trump uses Fascist ideas, from an objective status he does. But so does the democrat party, etc.

Same too with communism.

While some Democrats espouse communist ideology, and there are some self admitted communist thinkers in the democrat ranks, the democrat party isn’t communist.

Same with the GOP and fascism.

Now, you would be better off objecting to the specific act that you object to rather than trying to use a perjorative term that is fundamentally flawed.

For instance, if you object to Trump for his xenophobic views, say so.

If you think he’s against free elections, object there.

Instead you try to make the case that Trump is Hitler, which is both absurd, and will make you look absolutely uneducated.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
I have offered several definitions of neo-fascism, from reliable sources. I refuse to take the bait and write my own definition. You can find that humorous or not, I don't care. I'm not here to please you.

It wouldn't matter anyway. If you and others can refuse the definitions from those who know what they are talking about, my definitions are nothing. You are offended by appeal to authority anyway.

Your goal is to divert the point.

So, instead of fascism let's call it Trumpism. I defy you to claim and explain/support that Trumpism has no elements of fascism. I can easily claim and support that Trumpism is akin to fascism, and you know it.

Here's an article that explains a lot, if you would just bother to read it.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...fptaskbarhover&ei=27

Is America uniquely vulnerable to tyranny?
Opinion by Zack Beauchamp • 13h

==============================================

https://www.msn.com/en-us/vide...cid=socialshare&t=80

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
The problem with your contention and the sources you quote (and note they call it “neofascism” because it ain’t fascism… is that individual elements of fascism and communism are found in all political structures. By and large it’s a subjective “amount” that gets the label from poly sci types that are trying to advance their careers by publishing.

In general, a real fascist (like a real communist) will admit that’s who they are.


Instead you try to make the case that Trump is Hitler, which is both absurd, and will make you look absolutely uneducated.

Real fascists don't admit it. As I recall, Hitler never called himself or his party fascist. That label was given by others.

Trump will never admit he's a fascist, nor will MAGA. In fact, he has lately called the prosecutors, which he attributes to the left, fascists. He's projecting.

I have not tried to make the case that Trump IS Hitler nor Mussolini. You have used that false premise to defeat my point. Fascism morphs, just like conservativism morphs. Trying to equate Trumpism with fascism in Germany and Italy will quickly falter. They call it neo-fascism for a reason -- to distinguish it from Hitler and Mussolini, etc. of yesteryear. Even the best scholars and historians disagree somewhat about this, so it's not set in stone or clearly defined.

I'm just saying, in the court of public opinion, the burden of proof more likely than not, the pendulum swings towards fascism and Trumpism being akin, based on several factors and similarities.

If you use Trumpism I will follow your threads. As soon as I see you use fascism I tune out.
Your own defense post you put out, the fellow said, what people call fascism is a pale imitation of the real thing. And he was who you used for your defense you knew what it was.

All sides media ratings, gives your Zack Beauchamp a left slant, rating. Hardly someone I would give much credit to for getting my info from on opinion pieces.

quote:

If you use Trumpism I will follow your threads. As soon as I see you use fascism I tune out. What people call fascism is a pale imitation of the real thing.

I quoted only the parts of your post that I understood.

Admittedly, use of the word is a short-cut to my point and it's pejoratively.

I'll try to take your advice and argue long-form. It's a lot of trouble to spell out all the factors, and probably there will be just as much argument on each point as it is in summary, by summing it up as fascism.

I'm sure the word/term as it applies to Trumpism will come up again, herein and in the media.

If the word fascism offends and turns people off, IMO they are not willing to face what Trumpism is all about.

Or worse, they do know what Trumpism is about, and like it. They just don't want to be called fascists.

That's the problem, not the word.

No, it's that what you quote is not fascism.
There are elements that have similarities, but some on the left have similarities too.
To defend your fascist word use, you put up a number of reviewed articles. In it, they actually refuted your claims of Trump and fascism.
It would be so much easyer to talk about things if you could remember what you even post.
Zach Beauchamp is the opinion writer you just put up as proof of your views. He has a "left" rating from independent media rating sources. Hardly a good a reliable source of info.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
If you use Trumpism I will follow your threads. As soon as I see you use fascism I tune out.
Your own defense post you put out, the fellow said, what people call fascism is a pale imitation of the real thing. And he was who you used for your defense you knew what it was.

Well put. Sometimes you have to say things in a way even children can understand.

I have not been on here long but ME seems to me obsessed with so much labeling and sky is falling that it looks like kitty chasing it’s tail in circles
Seems extremely childish for grown man, but is he/she grown man?

Kabob/ME tends to always be afraid of something, or everything.
He is old, and posts links constantly. Between the two he never remembers what he has said or linked to as proof, in his mind.

quote:

Zach Beauchamp is the opinion writer you just put up as proof of your views. He has a "left" rating from independent media rating sources.

If the Left media or journalists are reality purveyors, as opposed to alt-reality or fantasy, then so be it, and an explanation of why you take exception.

One would think that perhaps you have forgotten how many times you have referred to my memory, somehow thinking that strengthens your arguments. But actually, you have not forgotten. You just spew any BS since your arguments are so lame.

Another example of what you do is make claims that aren't true, such as the quote above. How silly do you think I am to post an opinion article as "proof" of anything? You made that up. This forum is all about opinion, sometimes with a shred of facts, evidence, but proof is very elusive. I could say for example that you are an idiot. But obviously that would be opinion, even though there is a shred of evidence, but way shy of proof.

I was considering abstaining from the use of the word "Fascism" to appease you AHs.

But I've changed my mind.

Here's some of the latest crop - news of events - from the media - supporting the word Fascism regarding what the GOP has morphed into.

https://www.meidastouch.com/ne...isqualification-case

Trump Hit With Surprise Gag Order in Colorado Disqualification Case
Judge Sarah Wallace Issues Order Prohibiting Threats and Intimidation
Ben MeiselasSep 22, 2023

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...49d24c72628f3c&ei=78

Trump's 'Marching Order' Sparks Fears of Violence
Story by Matthew Impelli •
17h

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...49d24c72628f3c&ei=68

Perfect Plan Unveiled to Stop Jack Smith
Story by Joshua Riddle • 13h

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...752f649835457f&ei=37
Trump Directs House GOP to Shut Down Government ‘UNLESS YOU GET EVERYTHING’ from ‘Fascists and Thugs’ Democrats
Story by Colby Hall • 3h

=======================================================

I usually don't post links to articles which are in the slide-show format. I don't know why they do that except perhaps to maximize the ad revenue. Nonetheless, ad revenue is their game.

However, here's one such article that shows what the GOP does:

“Hiding the Truth” – House Republicans Desperately Sought to Halt Government Funding for Investigations Concerning Former President Donald Trump
Story by Keegan Leighty • 1h

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...bd439e&ei=13#image=6

There plenty of you fear mongers out there, I agree. Put your grown up pants on sometime, things are not so scary then kabob.
Proof of support to an opinion, is not the same as straight facts. You seldom use facts, but resort to opinion to support opinion.
I talked to Tom Twetten, the CIA (retired) analyst , he said to call anytime to talk fascism.
He would love to hear your arguments.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
There plenty of you fear mongers out there, I agree. Put your grown up pants on sometime, things are not so scary then kabob.
Proof of support to an opinion, is not the same as straight facts. You seldom use facts, but resort to opinion to support opinion.
I talked to Tom Twetten, the CIA (retired) analyst , he said to call anytime to talk fascism.
He would love to hear your arguments.

I saw trump yesterday promising the faithful to use the government to investigate NBC and MSNBC in relation to what he called their "treasonous" reporting if he is re-elected.

A POTUS using government mechanisms to attack the free press...That sounds, I dunno....kinda fascist?

Double down. Reality is Hitler, the Reich Ministry of Justice, and media outlets concocted a tale, out of thin air, a dossier if you will, alleging traitorous collusion between enemies of state. And then-

On the evening of February 27, 1933, alarms suddenly rang out in the Reichstag as fire destroyed the building’s main chamber. Within 20 minutes, Hitler was on the scene to declare: “This is a God-given signal! If this fire, as I believe, turns out to be the handiwork of Communists, then there is nothing that shall stop us now from crushing out this murderous pest with an iron fist.”

Marinus van der Lubbe was the man the Nazis captured that night. He confessed to setting the building ablaze but repeatedly insisted that he had acted alone. Adolf Hitler paid no attention to the confession. He saw a chance to get rid of what he considered the Nazis’ most immediate rival—the Communists—so he ordered the arrest of anyone with ties to the Communist Party.

Think about it

Trump is not a Fascist, but the assertation that the opposing side will do anything to stop him is disingenuous at best. Just look at the lengths team Trump went to in an attempt to steal the election, Fake electors, J 6th, the perfect phone in Georgia, etc.

quote:

Think about it

I think you are way too obsessed with Hitler!!!

Maybe the right word is abscessed.

What I think you are saying/doing is making analogy with Trump's indictments and prosecution/persecution.

If so, that's what I'm talking about.

Defending Trump ex-parte, or aside - not through - the rule of law, is the MO of the GOP.

The means is mostly spin and lies, which won't hold credibility in a real court of law. (for now, subject to change)

That's a direct attack on the rule of law. Trump knows that and so do all his allies, and his cult should know it, but default to the lies they are fed.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
Trump is not a Fascist, but the assertation that the opposing side will do anything to stop him is disingenuous at best. Just look at the lengths team Trump went to in an attempt to steal the election, Fake electors, J 6th, the perfect phone in Georgia, etc.

"Just look"

What do you think that was all about?

Was it honoring/abiding the constitution?

Was it honoring/abiding the rule of law?

Was it honoring/abiding the traditions of peaceful transition of power?

Was it honoring the Founding principles?

Was it honoring the election process?

Was it honoring fellow Americans?

"Just Look" at the means and the end goal.

What is that to be called or labeled, if not fascism?

It sure isn't consistent with the Founding Principles or the stuff that has sustained continuity for 240+ years.

And whatever it is, the end justifies the means, is still not just an undercurrent, or one-off, it has ramped up and is definitely on-going, outcome pending.

Their goal, or end, is still the same, doubled-down. The means have just changed, adapted. The "system" is vulnerable, and Trumpism has shown that to be a fact like no one before him.