Rand Paul on the boat attacks off Venezuela

25 October 2025, 04:54

Scott King

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
quote:
Originally posted by Scott King:

Lots of red flags.

How many innocent Russians are being killed by our weapons in the Ukraine war?
How many innocent Iraqis and Afgans did we kill?

The Russians have invaded Ukraine, not the other way around. I don't see the Russians as innocent.

Agree on Iraq, we at least had a reason to go to Afghanistan, we did not have a reason to stay for 20 years.

The point is, are you fine with an innocent fisherman losing his life on just Trump's word? I'm not.

There's lots of innocent Russians that have nothing to do with Vlad or invading Ukraine, like you I feel no sympathy.

If you hold all Russians as responsible and guilty for its invasion of Ukraine then you make the case for holding quite a bit of Latin America for its exporting drugs to the US.

The point is I am dissatisfied with previous efforts at winning the war on drugs. Drug enforcement is a very expensive pursuit that seems to yield defeat. Drug prevention is also very expensive and seems to end in defeat. I like the idea of new, different and harsher tactics being used against Cartels and their staff. I doubt everything that Trump says, but I have no particular reason to doubt his military, yes the recent departure of the Command down there is perplexing.

I like the Cartels being labeled FTO's. I like the Feds going after illegal immigrants. America has allowed to much for to long and "legalization " doesn't seem to be the miracle cure it was hoped to be. If anyone has a better idea I'm all ears.

25 October 2025, 07:02

Scott King

I just looked around for a moment or two and found that; 100k Americans die every year from drug use. Billions of dollars are spent annually in the US for drug prevention and tens of billions of dollars are spent by the US annually in the combined drug enforcement and drug prevention effort
.

Tens of billions spent every year and 100k dead every year. I have no interest in continuing these failed efforts, something new and different is overdue.

I propose a missile strike on every Cartel leaders home, let's see how they respond to that.

25 October 2025, 07:12

Huvius

quote:
The point is, are you fine with an innocent fisherman losing his life on just Trump's word? I'm not.

Show us where/when an innocent fisherman has lost his life.

25 October 2025, 07:12

Grizzly Adams1

quote:
Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
If they are drug dealers or manufacturers…kill’em. I am good with it.

And Mike

And, who makes that determination and how? You dense little man.

Sometimes it's obvious, at least Trump is dealing with a problem that is destroying the US you dense little man.

25 October 2025, 15:42

Steve Bertram

quote:
Originally posted by Huvius:
quote:
The point is, are you fine with an innocent fisherman losing his life on just Trump's word? I'm not.

Show us where/when an innocent fisherman has lost his life.

Show us where one did not. All we have is Trump's word which is worthless.

25 October 2025, 15:49

Steve Bertram

quote:
Originally posted by Scott King:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
quote:
Originally posted by Scott King:

Lots of red flags.

How many innocent Russians are being killed by our weapons in the Ukraine war?
How many innocent Iraqis and Afgans did we kill?

The Russians have invaded Ukraine, not the other way around. I don't see the Russians as innocent.

Agree on Iraq, we at least had a reason to go to Afghanistan, we did not have a reason to stay for 20 years.

The point is, are you fine with an innocent fisherman losing his life on just Trump's word? I'm not.

There's lots of innocent Russians that have nothing to do with Vlad or invading Ukraine, like you I feel no sympathy.

If you hold all Russians as responsible and guilty for its invasion of Ukraine then you make the case for holding quite a bit of Latin America for its exporting drugs to the US.

The point is I am dissatisfied with previous efforts at winning the war on drugs. Drug enforcement is a very expensive pursuit that seems to yield defeat. Drug prevention is also very expensive and seems to end in defeat. I like the idea of new, different and harsher tactics being used against Cartels and their staff. I doubt everything that Trump says, but I have no particular reason to doubt his military, yes the recent departure of the Command down there is perplexing.

I like the Cartels being labeled FTO's. I like the Feds going after illegal immigrants. America has allowed to much for to long and "legalization " doesn't seem to be the miracle cure it was hoped to be. If anyone has a better idea I'm all ears.

You do realize that humans have been taking mind-altering drugs as long as humans have been on this planet? People do drugs. It's a fact and it's not going to change. The war on drugs will never be won, that is as likely as teenagers losing interest in sex. That said, we should be doing all we can to secure our border. I most definitely do not approve of using our military in violation of international law on civilians who have not been to trial.

25 October 2025, 16:05

fulvio

quote:
That said, we should be doing all we can to secure our border. I most definitely do not approve of using our military in violation of international law on civilians who have not been to trial.

That said. Steve, the same criteria could be applied to poachers in the African bush; provided you don't find them with an illegal kill then they are not poachers, even though you know they are.

25 October 2025, 16:12

Steve Bertram

quote:
Originally posted by fulvio:
quote:
That said, we should be doing all we can to secure our border. I most definitely do not approve of using our military in violation of international law on civilians who have not been to trial.

That said. Steve, the same criteria could be applied to poachers in the African bush; provided you don't find them with an illegal kill then they are not poachers, even though you know they are.

And that is what trails are for. I do not believe in execution without a fair trail. Crazy....I know.

25 October 2025, 16:33

RolandtheHeadless

quote:
Originally posted by Huvius:
quote:
The point is, are you fine with an innocent fisherman losing his life on just Trump's word? I'm not.

Show us where/when an innocent fisherman has lost his life.

You've got it backwards. Innocent until proven guilty, remember?

The presumption of innocence has been stripped away from these alleged drug dealers.

25 October 2025, 20:17

TomP

quote:
Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
quote:
Originally posted by Huvius:
quote:
The point is, are you fine with an innocent fisherman losing his life on just Trump's word? I'm not.

Show us where/when an innocent fisherman has lost his life.

You've got it backwards. Innocent until proven guilty, remember?

The presumption of innocence has been stripped away from these alleged drug dealers.

There seems to be some confusion about the limits of government actions, versus rights of citizens.
Our government was intended to be limited. The execution of suspected criminals is out of bounds.
We will regret our apathy and inaction on this issue, whether under Obama or Trump.

And anyone who wants to, can show me where our preparations differ from yet another oil war...

25 October 2025, 20:52

ANTELOPEDUNDEE

If we were to launch a cruise missle or drop a bunker buster bomb on say the Sinaloa cartel headquarters, how many innocents do you think we would kill?

25 October 2025, 20:55

nute

quote:
Originally posted by Scott King:
I just looked around for a moment or two and found that; 100k Americans die every year from drug use. Billions of dollars are spent annually in the US for drug prevention and tens of billions of dollars are spent by the US annually in the combined drug enforcement and drug prevention effort
.

Tens of billions spent every year and 100k dead every year. I have no interest in continuing these failed efforts, something new and different is overdue.

I propose a missile strike on every Cartel leaders home, let's see how they respond to that.

If you look at the stats available for illicit drug use the US seems to top the charts in most categories. Other first world nations have problems but the US seems at the top of the list each time. I realise cannabis is legal in some states and I don't knowhow this impacts the stats.

Maybe the US should be trying to ascertain why so many Americans are using or addicted to (illegal) drugs. You can do whatever you want to the supply chain but if there is a demand someone will aways step in to fill it. Why do Americans turn to drugs in such large numbers, what is it about US society which either causes or allows this?

https://ourworldindata.org/illicit-drug-use

https://worldpopulationreview..../drug-use-by-country

25 October 2025, 22:39

Scott King

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
quote:
Originally posted by Scott King:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
quote:
Originally posted by Scott King:

Lots of red flags.

How many innocent Russians are being killed by our weapons in the Ukraine war?
How many innocent Iraqis and Afgans did we kill?

The Russians have invaded Ukraine, not the other way around. I don't see the Russians as innocent.

Agree on Iraq, we at least had a reason to go to Afghanistan, we did not have a reason to stay for 20 years.

The point is, are you fine with an innocent fisherman losing his life on just Trump's word? I'm not.

There's lots of innocent Russians that have nothing to do with Vlad or invading Ukraine, like you I feel no sympathy.

If you hold all Russians as responsible and guilty for its invasion of Ukraine then you make the case for holding quite a bit of Latin America for its exporting drugs to the US.

The point is I am dissatisfied with previous efforts at winning the war on drugs. Drug enforcement is a very expensive pursuit that seems to yield defeat. Drug prevention is also very expensive and seems to end in defeat. I like the idea of new, different and harsher tactics being used against Cartels and their staff. I doubt everything that Trump says, but I have no particular reason to doubt his military, yes the recent departure of the Command down there is perplexing.

I like the Cartels being labeled FTO's. I like the Feds going after illegal immigrants. America has allowed to much for to long and "legalization " doesn't seem to be the miracle cure it was hoped to be. If anyone has a better idea I'm all ears.

You do realize that humans have been taking mind-altering drugs as long as humans have been on this planet? People do drugs. It's a fact and it's not going to change. The war on drugs will never be won, that is as likely as teenagers losing interest in sex. That said, we should be doing all we can to secure our border. I most definitely do not approve of using our military in violation of international law on civilians who have not been to trial.

Your efforts to whitewash illegal drugs use is not acceptable. 100k dead annually is not acceptable no matter your opinion of history.

25 October 2025, 22:42

Scott King

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
quote:
Originally posted by fulvio:
quote:
That said, we should be doing all we can to secure our border. I most definitely do not approve of using our military in violation of international law on civilians who have not been to trial.

That said. Steve, the same criteria could be applied to poachers in the African bush; provided you don't find them with an illegal kill then they are not poachers, even though you know they are.

And that is what trails are for. I do not believe in execution without a fair trail. Crazy....I know.

Unless they're Russian right Steve? All Russians are guilty right?

25 October 2025, 22:45

Scott King

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
quote:
Originally posted by fulvio:
quote:
That said, we should be doing all we can to secure our border. I most definitely do not approve of using our military in violation of international law on civilians who have not been to trial.

That said. Steve, the same criteria could be applied to poachers in the African bush; provided you don't find them with an illegal kill then they are not poachers, even though you know they are.

And that is what trails are for. I do not believe in execution without a fair trail. Crazy....I know.

That's a whole lot of trials we should have held for the civilians we killed in France, Japan, Belgium, Vietnam, Korea, Somalia, iraq,........

25 October 2025, 23:01

Scott King

quote:
Originally posted by nute:
quote:
Originally posted by Scott King:
I just looked around for a moment or two and found that; 100k Americans die every year from drug use. Billions of dollars are spent annually in the US for drug prevention and tens of billions of dollars are spent by the US annually in the combined drug enforcement and drug prevention effort
.

Tens of billions spent every year and 100k dead every year. I have no interest in continuing these failed efforts, something new and different is overdue.

I propose a missile strike on every Cartel leaders home, let's see how they respond to that.

If you look at the stats available for illicit drug use the US seems to top the charts in most categories. Other first world nations have problems but the US seems at the top of the list each time. I realise cannabis is legal in some states and I don't knowhow this impacts the stats.

Maybe the US should be trying to ascertain why so many Americans are using or addicted to (illegal) drugs. You can do whatever you want to the supply chain but if there is a demand someone will aways step in to fill it. Why do Americans turn to drugs in such large numbers, what is it about US society which either causes or allows this?

https://ourworldindata.org/illicit-drug-use

https://worldpopulationreview..../drug-use-by-country

And your right Nute. I'm no expert ad you know and I repeatedly demonstrate,

but I am inclined to believe that's some of the effort the billions spent annually are on. I have a residential treatment center here in town that I think puts all the effort they have into the why, how and how not to.
I don't have any answer.

I do believe demand drives supply. I also believe ready, easy availability greases the wheels of demand. In my youth, lite beer was very inexpensive, easy to obtain and believed to be innocuous. We all drank lots of beer, cases after case after case. Kegs of beer were normal.

Today there is to much drugs available. Inexpensive, easy to obtain and believed to be innocuous hard drugs. Apparently Coke, livens you up! Yippee! The pills and the downers relax you or something. Cool.

All that stuff needs to be less available for a few bucks from guys they know just a few minutes away.

25 October 2025, 23:07

fulvio

quote:
Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:
If we were to launch a cruise missle or drop a bunker buster bomb on say the Sinaloa cartel headquarters, how many innocents do you think we would kill?

There is a difference in bombing a building possible surrounded by other buildings and one of many extremely fast boats which don't fall in the same classification as a fishing vessel with 5/6 persons on board heading directly for the US coast.

26 October 2025, 02:44

Steve Bertram

quote:
Originally posted by Scott King:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
quote:
Originally posted by fulvio:
quote:
That said, we should be doing all we can to secure our border. I most definitely do not approve of using our military in violation of international law on civilians who have not been to trial.

That said. Steve, the same criteria could be applied to poachers in the African bush; provided you don't find them with an illegal kill then they are not poachers, even though you know they are.

And that is what trails are for. I do not believe in execution without a fair trail. Crazy....I know.

Unless they're Russian right Steve? All Russians are guilty right?

When Venezuela invades us your comparison will be correct. Criminal syndicates work here in the States, sometimes trafficking things like people for prostitution. So it is okay for a country who has it women brought here for the sex trade fine to start killing Americans? Should Cuba start killing Americans based in Miami that it deems a threat to the revolution?

I mean really, this is not the stone age Scott, we are bound by international law just like everyone else. That, and if we want out citizens safe throughout the world, we should treat others justly.

26 October 2025, 02:47

Steve Bertram

quote:
Originally posted by Scott King:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
quote:
Originally posted by Scott King:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
quote:
Originally posted by Scott King:

Lots of red flags.

How many innocent Russians are being killed by our weapons in the Ukraine war?
How many innocent Iraqis and Afgans did we kill?

The Russians have invaded Ukraine, not the other way around. I don't see the Russians as innocent.

Agree on Iraq, we at least had a reason to go to Afghanistan, we did not have a reason to stay for 20 years.

The point is, are you fine with an innocent fisherman losing his life on just Trump's word? I'm not.

There's lots of innocent Russians that have nothing to do with Vlad or invading Ukraine, like you I feel no sympathy.

If you hold all Russians as responsible and guilty for its invasion of Ukraine then you make the case for holding quite a bit of Latin America for its exporting drugs to the US.

The point is I am dissatisfied with previous efforts at winning the war on drugs. Drug enforcement is a very expensive pursuit that seems to yield defeat. Drug prevention is also very expensive and seems to end in defeat. I like the idea of new, different and harsher tactics being used against Cartels and their staff. I doubt everything that Trump says, but I have no particular reason to doubt his military, yes the recent departure of the Command down there is perplexing.

I like the Cartels being labeled FTO's. I like the Feds going after illegal immigrants. America has allowed to much for to long and "legalization " doesn't seem to be the miracle cure it was hoped to be. If anyone has a better idea I'm all ears.

You do realize that humans have been taking mind-altering drugs as long as humans have been on this planet? People do drugs. It's a fact and it's not going to change. The war on drugs will never be won, that is as likely as teenagers losing interest in sex. That said, we should be doing all we can to secure our border. I most definitely do not approve of using our military in violation of international law on civilians who have not been to trial.

Your efforts to whitewash illegal drugs use is not acceptable. 100k dead annually is not acceptable no matter your opinion of history.

No whitewashing about it, just the facts. Humans have always used substances to alter their minds.

Remind me again which society didn't? None that I am aware of.

Wine, women and song or some variation thereof.....been that way since the dawn of time and will until we leave this planet.

26 October 2025, 03:24

RolandtheHeadless

The biggest drug problem I've personally witnessed is overuse of presciption opiates. People walking and driving around always in a daze.

When do we start bombing the clinics of the doctors who over-prescribe these medicines?

26 October 2025, 04:00

Mike Mitchell

quote:
Originally posted by Grizzly Adams1:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
If they are drug dealers or manufacturers…kill’em. I am good with it.

And Mike

And, who makes that determination and how? You dense little man.

Sometimes it's obvious, at least Trump is dealing with a problem that is destroying the US you dense little man.

Yeah but he's not unless you are a brain-dead trumptard.

26 October 2025, 04:50

Scott King

quote:
Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
The biggest drug problem I've personally witnessed is overuse of presciption opiates. People walking and driving around always in a daze.

When do we start bombing the clinics of the doctors who over-prescribe these medicines?

I think you're right and I think the pill problem gives wsy to others drugs.

I would have said that the clinics and doctors here were liable to our laws and consequences so bombing isn't needed but I'm open to differing opinions.

We've been telling the Cartels for a few decades now that we think they are bad, mean, irresponsible and just not very nice, but that hasn't seemed to work. Maybe bombitheir homes would shake them up a little.

26 October 2025, 04:55

Mike Mitchell

quote:
Originally posted by Scott King:
quote:
Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
The biggest drug problem I've personally witnessed is overuse of presciption opiates. People walking and driving around always in a daze.

When do we start bombing the clinics of the doctors who over-prescribe these medicines?

I think you're right and I think the pill problem gives wsy to others drugs.

I would have said that the clinics and doctors here were liable to our laws and consequences so bombing isn't needed but I'm open to differing opinions.

We've been telling the Cartels for a few decades now that we think they are bad, mean, irresponsible and just not very nice, but that hasn't seemed to work. Maybe bombitheir homes would shake them up a little.

Nothing you say is incorrect.

But, if you think trump blowing up a few boats off the coast of Venezuela is going to make a difference, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell you.

26 October 2025, 06:31

Scott King

quote:
Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
quote:
Originally posted by Scott King:
quote:
Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
The biggest drug problem I've personally witnessed is overuse of presciption opiates. People walking and driving around always in a daze.

When do we start bombing the clinics of the doctors who over-prescribe these medicines?

I think you're right and I think the pill problem gives wsy to others drugs.

I would have said that the clinics and doctors here were liable to our laws and consequences so bombing isn't needed but I'm open to differing opinions.

We've been telling the Cartels for a few decades now that we think they are bad, mean, irresponsible and just not very nice, but that hasn't seemed to work. Maybe bombitheir homes would shake them up a little.

Nothing you say is incorrect.

But, if you think trump blowing up a few boats off the coast of Venezuela is going to make a difference, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell you.

I'm more interested in your Arizona ocean front property. Tell me its still available.

26 October 2025, 07:02

Saeed

quote:
Originally posted by Scott King:
I just looked around for a moment or two and found that; 100k Americans die every year from drug use. Billions of dollars are spent annually in the US for drug prevention and tens of billions of dollars are spent by the US annually in the combined drug enforcement and drug prevention effort
.

Tens of billions spent every year and 100k dead every year. I have no interest in continuing these failed efforts, something new and different is overdue.

I propose a missile strike on every Cartel leaders home, let's see how they respond to that.

Won't solve YOUR problems.

China is already supplying what your people DEMAND!

EDUCATE them.

Why are YOU not taking drugs?

Why am I not taking drugs?

Because no one is FORCING us to do so.

The stupid IDIOTS who do are doing it out of their own FREE WILL!

26 October 2025, 07:37

rcraig

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
quote:
Originally posted by fulvio:
quote:
That said, we should be doing all we can to secure our border. I most definitely do not approve of using our military in violation of international law on civilians who have not been to trial.

That said. Steve, the same criteria could be applied to poachers in the African bush; provided you don't find them with an illegal kill then they are not poachers, even though you know they are.

And that is what trails are for. I do not believe in execution without a fair trail. Crazy....I know.

Larry.