Well, the whispering encumbered incompetent
has outdone himself again.

No earlier president has found it necessary to renew the Civil War sectional strife by awarding questionable medals to long dead Union 1860s veterans.
A closer look indicates this is a political ploy
to further awaken sectional rancor like destruction of historical statues in the South.

This hypocritical divisiveness needs to end with this one-term administration. A loser by any other name...
Slow Joe directly caused the deaths of veterans in Afghanistan.
As a combat veteran sharing the sentiments of MANY other combat veterans, show this imposter the back door.

quote:

Originally posted by 450 Fuller:
Well, the whispering encumbered incompetent
has outdone himself again.

No earlier president has found it necessary to renew the Civil War sectional strife by awarding questionable medals to long dead Union 1860s veterans.
A closer look indicates this is a political ploy
to further awaken sectional rancor like destruction of historical statues in the South.

This hypocritical divisiveness needs to end with this one-term administration. A loser by any other name...
Slow Joe directly caused the deaths of veterans in Afghanistan.
As a combat veteran sharing the sentiments of MANY other combat veterans, show this imposter the back door.

quote:

The president was on the other line, they said, inviting Theresa Chandler, the great-great-granddaughter of Pvt. Wilson, and Gerald Taylor, the great-great-nephew of Pvt. Shadrach, to accept the medal on behalf of the men who, as a part of a group of 24 volunteers, snuck behind Confederate lines in an act of unprecedented bravery.

The Union soldiers -- acting as spies in civilian clothing -- managed to penetrate 200 miles into Confederate territory, where they commandeered a train -- "The General" -- and drove it 87 miles from Georgia to Tennessee.

In what became known as "The Great Locomotive Chase," on April 12, 1862, the Union raiders destroyed Confederate railroad tracks and telegraph lines -- earned 19 of the men Medals of Honor, becoming the first group of Army soldiers to receive it.

The ambitious plot, despite wreaking havoc, failed. The soldiers were captured. Some escaped and received their medals after the war, while a group of eight of the raiders -- including Wilson and Shadrach -- were tried and hanged by the Confederacy.

Because of what historians attribute to an oversight, Wilson and Shadrach never received the award posthumously.

Link

That you can bitch and whine about this correction of an historical wrong tells me you need to consider getting professional help.

quote:

Shadrach and Wilson's awards were approved by Congress in 2008, but the ceremony kept getting shifted and was eventually forgotten about.

Link

So, every single damned word you typed, every accusation and slur, was a bald-faced lie. "Slow Joe" was not the President when these Medals were authorized, so he couldn't have done it "to renew the Civil War sectional strife", there is nothing remotely "questionable" about these Medals, since 19, the first Medals of Honor ever authorized, were awarded to soldiers on this same mission, had you actually bothered to take a "closer look" this all would have been evident even to you and then you claim to be a "combat veteran" to give legitimacy to casting aspersions on the Congressional Medal of Honor, which I have never once heard ANY veteran do, under any circumstance. The Medal of Honor and those who have earned it have, in my experience, ALWAYS been held in the highest esteem, bordering on reverence, by everybody who puts on the uniform.

You disgrace yourself.

You'll probably delete this thread to hide your shame but rest assured I have saved it and will repost it so folks know just who and what you are.

THIS is who Republicans are, make up bald-faced lies and denigrate this Country's highest honor to try to win a political point.

The Medal of Honor is held in such singular regard that across somewhere around 20 military installations both Stateside and overseas I never saw ANYTHING bearing the iconic baby-blue shade used for the Medal; it's simply not done. I don't know of any other color shade that approached sacredness, but that one does; the Medal is held in that much regard. For an American servicemember past or present to denigrate the Medal is akin to a Catholic calling Mary's virtue into question or a Baptist saying the preacher should stop diddling children.

It's far beyond the pale.

We’re talking about someone who worships a mentally defective aspiring dictator like a god. It’s no surprise that he has shit for brains.

quote:

Originally posted by LongDistanceOperator:
We’re talking about someone who worships a mentally defective aspiring dictator like a god. It’s no surprise that he has shit for brains.

It takes a special kind of shit for brains to crap on the Congressional Medal of Honor for cheap political points.

Generals salute Privates wearing it.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by LongDistanceOperator:
We’re talking about someone who worships a mentally defective aspiring dictator like a god. It’s no surprise that he has shit for brains.

It takes a special kind of shit for brains to crap on the Congressional Medal of Honor for cheap political points.

Generals salute Privates wearing it.

There is a thread at 24 hour campfire about this titled “Train hijackers get CMOH” or very similar. What a wacko site.

quote:

Originally posted by LongDistanceOperator:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by LongDistanceOperator:
We’re talking about someone who worships a mentally defective aspiring dictator like a god. It’s no surprise that he has shit for brains.

It takes a special kind of shit for brains to crap on the Congressional Medal of Honor for cheap political points.

Generals salute Privates wearing it.

There is a thread at 24 hour campfire about this titled “Train hijackers get CMOH” or very similar. What a wacko site.

Literally the first recipients of Army Medals of Honor were members of this raid.

I dunno.

The guys went in as spies (not in uniform) and were hanged. I suspect they were ordered to do so.

Do we award every spy executed with the MOH?

Of course not. We don't even award commandos/Rangers who go behind lines out of uniform with the MOH nowdays.

Other than this action, have we awarded pretty much everyone in a singular event the MOH?

On the other hand, all the other members of the raid did get the award.

The criteria for awarding the MOH have changed over time.

I think at the time that these two soldiers were not given it was undoubtedly an oversight.

I don't think that given identical actions today they would be awarded the medal.

Given that there has to be special political permission to award the medal after a period of time, this was undoubtedly done for political purposes at this time. Most commonly, we have seen other medals upgraded recently because of racial issues at the time for various WWII service members.

I don't really have a problem with it, but it certainly doesn't seem to be something that meets the criteria currently. If someone had been in a position to say something to Lincoln at the time, I am sure these men would have been given the award as well. Its really a nice gesture for their descendants (if there are any given their ages at the time) and it is not an inappropriate gesture...

The southern contingent is undoubtedly still smarting about Biden's folks renaming posts with confederate associated heroes names.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
I dunno.

The guys went in as spies (not in uniform) and were hanged. I suspect they were ordered to do so.

Do we award every spy executed with the MOH?

Of course not. We don't even award commandos/Rangers who go behind lines out of uniform with the MOH nowdays.

Other than this action, have we awarded pretty much everyone in a singular event the MOH?

On the other hand, all the other members of the raid did get the award.

The criteria for awarding the MOH have changed over time.

I think at the time that these two soldiers were not given it was undoubtedly an oversight.

I don't think that given identical actions today they would be awarded the medal.

Given that there has to be special political permission to award the medal after a period of time, this was undoubtedly done for political purposes at this time. Most commonly, we have seen other medals upgraded recently because of racial issues at the time for various WWII service members.

I don't really have a problem with it, but it certainly doesn't seem to be something that meets the criteria currently. If someone had been in a position to say something to Lincoln at the time, I am sure these men would have been given the award as well. Its really a nice gesture for their descendants (if there are any given their ages at the time) and it is not an inappropriate gesture...

The southern contingent is undoubtedly still smarting about Biden's folks renaming posts with confederate associated heroes names.

If you would bother with a little actual history instead of just pulling shit out of your ass you'd know that every man on the raid was a volunteer. No, spies aren't usually awarded Medals of Honor because they aren't usually members of the military, but they do get recognized. The awarding of these two Medals was authorized by an Act of Congress in 2008, so it should have been done much sooner. When should the President have done it that it wouldn't be perceived by hyper-partisans like yourself as "political"? He didn't initiate the awarding of the Medals 16 years ago so he could spring them as a surprise this week.

Were they ordered to go not in uniform, or did they choose that?

Yes, they volunteered for the raid.

Kind of like every member of the Armed forces singe the early 70's.

Most all the members of the OSS were military.

How many MOH's from the OSS?

The CIA memorial wall has anything approaching the requirements of the MOH?

You seem to be equating a purple heart to the MOH.

Of note, I had a class in awarding decorations- the purpose and requirements thereof. There are probably several here who wrote recommendations for awards. "Being there" is not adequate to get the MOH now, nor is getting killed in the line of voluntary duty.

John McCain did his duty as a POW. Did he get the MOH?

Didn't think so.

Nor did any of the guys killed by the Nazis or the Japanese being executed while POW's.

You kind of answered that... Why didn't Obama award the MOH's?

Yes, Bush could have. So could have Trump. Biden could have 3 years ago if it was authorized in '08.

Why now?

Not because "they were owed" or it would have happened 16 years ago, by your own admission.

I am just proud that on July 4, two folks who fought to end slavery and preserve the Union from a slaver’s rebellion achieved the trappings of honor they deserved.

Only Crbutler types could complain.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
I am just proud that on July 4, two folks who fought to end slavery and preserve the Union from a slaver’s rebellion achieved the trappings of honor they deserved.

Only Crbutler types could complain.

You can’t read, can you?

I said I had no problems with it.

The award may not meet current criteria, but it was awarded at the time and near as I can tell, the only reason they didn’t get it then was oversight.

If you can’t tell that the TIMING of the award was purely political, then there is no hope for you.

Why didn’t Bush, Obama, Trump, or Biden award it before now, given congressional approval was given 12 years ago per Jefffive?


BTW, to the best of my knowledge, at least 20 members of my family served in the civil war. All on the union side. 8 did not return.

quote:

... Ron Shadrach, a descendant of Pvt. Shadrach, who was only 21 when he volunteered for the mission, and historian Brad Quinlin, teamed up to push Shadrach and Wilson's case. Text from a 2008 act of Congress even cleared the way for Wilson and Shadrach to be honored, but for reasons resembling "red tape," some family said, the call simply never came...
Shadrach and Quinlin met in 2012 and made their case for 12 years, but even before them, a relative of Pvt. Shadrach was sending letters to President Jimmy Carter.

At the outset of the Biden Administration, two former generals -- one a four-star -- joined Shadrach and Quinlin's efforts...
Shadrack labored over the case for more than 12 years to rectify the historical record, but, above all, he said, he did so in service of his ancestor's sacrifices...
"I had wanted to serve my country, and I hadn't," Shadrack said. "And so now I've been able to do this…" he said, choking up, seemingly reckoning with this moment – a present day that would pay tribute to a day 162 years ago for which he has so long fought.

"And I think it's, it's something that any ordinary American would do," he said. "It's what we do."

Quinlin, who in his work has studied the acts of Medal of Honor recipients, said the award -- given to some 3,500 warfighters in U.S. history -- has documented the American story on the battlefield.

Link

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
I am just proud that on July 4, two folks who fought to end slavery and preserve the Union from a slaver’s rebellion achieved the trappings of honor they deserved.

Only Crbutler types could complain.

You can’t read, can you?

I said I had no problems with it.

The award may not meet current criteria, but it was awarded at the time and near as I can tell, the only reason they didn’t get it then was oversight.

If you can’t tell that the TIMING of the award was purely political, then there is no hope for you.

Why didn’t Bush, Obama, Trump, or Biden award it before now, given congressional approval was given 12 years ago per Jefffive?


BTW, to the best of my knowledge, at least 20 members of my family served in the civil war. All on the union side. 8 did not return.

No problems, but then enemy on for nearly a page, including single sentence paragraphs, of issues.

Your first sentence, “I don’t know.” Undermines you not having a problem.

Try again Tucker Carlson.

I don't know as in I don't know why now.

AFAIC it should have happened in 2008 when Congress OK'd it. That it didn't, why?

To be honest, I am not really sure what the objective standards are to differentiate awarding the DSC and the MOH. Obviously, the MOH is a higher award, but how do you say Pvt. Smith merits the DSC and Pvt. Williams merits the MOH on an objective basis? It seems to be more subjective when the act is worthy of the MOH as opposed to a lesser award. BTW, one of the reasons for awarding decorations is to encourage support for the war effort both on the home front and within the services. Thus why FDR awarded MacArthur the MOH.

The things for it were already stated...

They volunteered for a mission; they completed the mission; they were captured; they were hanged by the CSA; and everyone else on the raid got the MOH, as part of the inaugural awarding of the medal.

From the class I had- (pulled my notes)

To merit the MOH requires that the individual be serving in the Armed forces of the US in uniform.

That they exhibit an act of courage and valor above and beyond the call of duty.

This action must be in combat against a declared enemy of the United States.

That they be recommended for the award by their immediate superior, and that the decoration be agreed to/supported by the separate steps in the chain of command.

That the act be verified.

That it be agreed to by the civil authorities (president and secretary of the service). It is given in the name of the US. I do believe that Congressional consent it obtained, but the award is not from the congress.

This is the relatively recent requirements (it may have changed since 1990) but I know it was not this way in the civil war... they awarded the medal to some non service folks and folks who were not in action against the enemy. Those awards have since been rescinded if I recall correctly.

Double checking on line, apparently you can be awarded the medal if you are serving in action with allied foreign forces even if it is not a declared enemy of the US.

WTH is "enemy on for a page"?

Simple English composition... If its a different idea it goes in its own paragraph. I guess they didn't teach you that. Run on sentences and no formatting make things look poorly and confuse the reader... not that you seem to care about that.

If I'm Tucker Carlson, where is my money?

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
I am just proud that on July 4, two folks who fought to end slavery and preserve the Union from a slaver’s rebellion achieved the trappings of honor they deserved.

Only Crbutler types could complain.

You can’t read, can you?

I said I had no problems with it.

The award may not meet current criteria, but it was awarded at the time and near as I can tell, the only reason they didn’t get it then was oversight.

If you can’t tell that the TIMING of the award was purely political, then there is no hope for you.

Why didn’t Bush, Obama, Trump, or Biden award it before now, given congressional approval was given 12 years ago per Jefffive?


BTW, to the best of my knowledge, at least 20 members of my family served in the civil war. All on the union side. 8 did not return.

No problems, but then enemy on for nearly a page, including single sentence paragraphs, of issues.

Your first sentence, “I don’t know.” Undermines you not having a problem.

Try again Tucker Carlson.

A lot of typing when what was called the was a simple good and long over do.

quote:

Do we award every spy executed with the MOH?

You have awarded a draft dodging coward by making him commander in chief of the armed forces!