Went there today for the first time in a few months...wanted to sight in a few new rifles.

They are now making customers sign a complete indemnification, relieving ASC of any liability for anything that happens to you on their property.

I thought part of my range fees were to cover their insurance costs?

If I had to pay an extra buck or two every time I went out to shoot, to cover insurance increases, fine.

But giving them a complete, free pass?

I went home without shooting and will consider other options.

Anyone else see this as a little extreme? Or are most ranges doing this now?


Tim

Haven't the ambulance chasers made America a wonderful place. All you have to do is look at some of the really stupid reasons people use to try for some free money to understand why they are taking such a CYA attitude.

It has been a standard practice at every commercial range that I have shot at over the past 20 years.

quote:

Originally posted by pagosawingnut:
It has been a standard practice at every commercial range that I have shot at over the past 20 years.

Interesting. I am 56 and have never seen it before today.

Guess I've led a sheltered life!

Marine Corps and "sheltered life" do not go hand in hand Sir!

When I was in the Marines, if you did something stupid on the range, they just beat the shit out of you. That reinforced learning really helped you retain what they taught.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
When I was in the Marines, if you did something stupid on the range, they just beat the shit out of you. That reinforced learning really helped you retain what they taught.

Oh yeah. You never wanted to screw up...but to screw up with a weapon in your hands. Ugh!

I am also 56 and have never visited a range that does not have such 'boilerplate'. Considering some folks here in the Pacific Northwest have used public shooting ranges to commit suicide I can't imagine a range nowadays not having such a clause. Not everyone properly and safely handles a weapon like a Marine and if they don't the range can't place the hurt on them.

quote:

Originally posted by pagosawingnut:
Marine Corps and "sheltered life" do not go hand in hand Sir!

Sure they do!
They issue you a helmit don't they?

Jim

That would not be sheltered, that would be pampered.
Rocky shows that all you have to do is tie a dirty rag around your head and you're invincible.
maybe at the public ranges, instead of making you sign a waiver, they should just give you a rag to tie around your head.

Haven't been to AMC in a while. I've been a range officer on National Match Courses. Yes, I'm kind of picky.

I've cringed, hollered, gone appoplectic about things I've seen happen at AMC. I've complained to their range officers and I've intervened directly when necessary.

It's chaos, but they do a pretty good job of keeping it safe.

Some time back, they had a guy accidentally shoot himself in the parking lot because he: 1) uncased a rifle in the parking lot; and 2) he apparently had cased it loaded some time before. He shot himself. He died. He screwed up.

I'm confident some contingient fee plaintiff's lawyer tried to blame the range. Never saw those disclaimers before that happened.

You can't fix stupid........

Go to Hotwells...pay money...shoot...go down the road and have a bev'age !!!!

At 64+ I haven't either. But, I grew up on a place where I could hunt/shoot/fish/camp without such manure. Family property.

Now, I shoot on BLM ground where I can shoot into a hillside 970yds due north of my shooting position.

Public ranges have to deal w/ the dumb masses. I have to deal(to a lesser degree) w/ the dumb masses at my private club. Damn sure keeps you on your toes. Sad, but true. Then again, one rarely gets a second chance when high powered rifles are involved.

Sign it as "Jack Meoff".

Those waivers aren't worth the paper they are written on. If the rang has or allows unsafe conditions or actions, they can be sued.

George

Sure, anybody can be sued for any reason. Whether they will get a judgment or not is another matter......

What George said. That paper has about as much standing in a court of law as a pre-nuptial agreement.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
What George said. That paper has about as much standing in a court of law as a pre-nuptial agreement.

Rich

I dunno who draws up your pre-nups, but mine saved me over a million dollars. That was before pre-nups were really well known. I've got a hot flash, pre-nups if well done, stand up in court. Mine was written in 1974 and came to fruition, so to speak, in 1986.

I was in Chicago around 40 years ago and went to a range. I was told the range, except on week ends, was self regulated. I had to watch a film and sign a waiver before I could shoot. Among other things, it specified that any breach of rules would result in immediate and permanent ejection. I didn't resent watching the film nor signing the waiver. In fact, it was kinda comforting knowing that the other shooters knew what the rules were.

Being an active member of the local range for just over a year (I just moved here) I had to sign a release of liability and a notice that I read, understood and had a copy of the range standard operating procedures before I was issued access. Then I went through a range orientation before I was issued an access card.

The club has just over 800 registered member families and pays $10000 annually in insurance premiums. Just over 1/4 of the membership fee goes to make that payment and we have never had a claim on the insurance. We have around 60 members who are certified NRA range safety officers, so our range is one of the safest ranges I have ever belonged to. Prior to moving I was a member of the Seattle Police Athletic Association and the dues were triple what I pay now and because of the incident history of the range and its location the insurance was much higher.

All a person using the range has to do to get payment for an accident is to show the PROBABILITY that there was negligence on the part of the range operation. This can be anything from a lack of supervision by the RSO to "unkempt" grounds.

No waiver of liability has ever stood up in a court action as a defense against liability.

quote:

No waiver of liability has ever stood up in a court action as a defense against liability.

I'm not an attorney but that statement is COMPLETE AND UNADULTERATED

Read this for just a few examples of waivers that stood up and some that didn't and why....
Liability waivers?

.....and more.

I can't believe that no waiver has ever held up in court. No doubt they are not perfect (what is?), but they have some effect. I'll be getting my sub-contractors to sign them for te forseeable future.

Prenups tend to hold up if they allow a reasonable provision, or full disclosure at the time it was signed.