The Accurate Reloading Forums
Leverevolution for moose
15 June 2018, 05:28
groundtenderLeverevolution for moose
I’m thinking of using my .45-70 Guide Gun for an upcoming moose hunt. Do any of you have experience on moose or elk sized critters with the 325 grain FTX by Hornady for that caliber? I have several boxes. I’m not buying anything different, if this slug is not recommended I will use my .308 with a bullet that I know will do the job. Thank you
15 June 2018, 05:31
OLBIKERWhy don't you call up Hornady and ask them?
15 June 2018, 07:36
medvedi ve seen that combo working great on our caribou (mountain one as big as elk) moose and grizzly.
so i would not bother it will work.
15 June 2018, 15:47
groundtenderThanks for all your replys. I appreciate it.
15 June 2018, 16:22
p dog shooterThe Hornaday site does not show any bears in the uses of their bullets.
None of them must not be good for bears.
15 June 2018, 22:44
Snellstromquote:
Originally posted by p dog shooter:
The Hornaday site does not show any bears in the uses of their bullets.
None of them must not be good for bears.
Their website shows the bullets use for game animals 300-1500 pounds. Most folks shoot Bears well under 300 so maybe the bullet is too tough for Bears??
Just kidding I'd use them if they shoot great.
16 June 2018, 01:03
p dog shooterquote:
Most folks shoot Bears well under 300
Their is a lot of truth in that, for years the average bear killed in Wis. was around 150lbs.
16 June 2018, 10:30
CougarzWell I shot a 6 ft bear in Alberta a couple years back with them and won't be doing it again. Two shots, they both broke up in the bear with less than ideal penetration. Yes they killed the bear but I at least wasn't too impressed.
If you go onto the Marlin owners site there's plenty of similar stories.
Roger
___________________________
I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along.
*we band of 45-70ers*
16 June 2018, 14:44
buckeyeshooterNo way for me! I have not used it in 45/70. However in the 308 Marlin express it fragmented badly, so badly there was no exit wound on 100 to 150 pound deer. I shot 7 deer with it, all in the shoulder joint or in the ribcage. I am not at all impressed with this bullet.
I suggest a 350 grain Hornady roundnose ( not flatpoint, the roundnose is made for 458wm) or a 300 grain Nosler partition if you can find them.
16 June 2018, 17:22
sharpsguyI would not use the Hornady Leverevloution in 45-70 for moose. What you need is penetration, and that bullet will not give you what you need. Get a flat nosed hard cast bullet of 400 to 450 grains from someone like Buffalo Bore and you will get the job done. Great rifle and caliber choice, but the ammo you picked is not up to the task. A flat nosed hard cast load will solve the problem.
16 June 2018, 18:41
touchdown88I've used them in my 45-70 for years and taken a number of deer with them. I've seen two buffalo taken with the 45-70 too. Keep the shot behind the shoulder if you can and have a fun hunt!
I killed a mature bull moose with the Leverevolution in 2014. Shot him at just over 160 yards and he didn't take but 2 steps. Model 1886 Win, built in 1892, with a 30" buffalo barrel. Good times.
Because of the age of the gun (still in solid condition) I had fewer ammo choices. And I don't handload for the 45-70. We felt the pressures from the lighter bullet were comparable to the B uffalo Bore 405s with a touch better accuracy. With your Guide Gun you'd have many more choices. I'd go with whatever was most accurate. A gut shot moose with a 400+ grain bullet is still just a gut shot moose.
17 June 2018, 03:55
kayakerMy friend used that bullet in a .450 Marlin to kill a large bison cow last year. He shot twice the but the first would have been adequate. One exited the other stopped after punching through the scapula on the far side.
17 June 2018, 04:42
groundtenderquote:
Originally posted by MC:
I'd go with whatever was most accurate. A gut shot moose with a 400+ grain bullet is still just a gut shot moose.
. I guess I wasn’t thinking of a gut shot, but thanks for your reply and everybody’s. With any luck it’ll be a 25 to 50 yard shot.
quote:
Originally posted by groundtender:
I guess I wasn’t thinking of a gut shot, but thanks for your reply and everybody’s. With any luck it’ll be a 25 to 50 yard shot.
I wasn't meaning you would gut shoot it. Just saying to shoot the most accurate, adequate bullet. 325 in the lungs is better than 420 in the guts. Good luck on your hunt.
17 June 2018, 16:41
p dog shooterquote:
Just saying to shoot the most accurate, adequate bullet.
Do not need a real accurate rifle on moose their kill zone is very large.
One could easily get the job done with a 4 inch rifle most marlins well do half that.
Get the proper range a rifle that puts them all on a 8x11 well get the job done.
One needs to know the limits of their weapon and work with that. plenty of moose have been killed with bows and handguns.
Some a lot less accurate then any Marlin.
quote:
Originally posted by p dog shooter:
quote:
Just saying to shoot the most accurate, adequate bullet.
Do not need a real accurate rifle on moose their kill zone is very large.
One could easily get the job done with a 4 inch rifle most marlins well do half that.
Get the proper range a rifle that puts them all on a 8x11 well get the job done.
One needs to know the limits of their weapon and work with that. plenty of moose have been killed with bows and handguns.
Some a lot less accurate then any Marlin.
If I have a 4" 400gr bullet or a 1" 325, I'll take the 325 (if 325 can do the job). Yes people shoot moose with bows and handguns. I've killed bull moose with a bow, a muzzleloader with roundballs, and a 45-70. But usually those guys are hunting a manner that dictates more close range situations- I know each hunt for me had a different mindset. The original post seemed to say he'd use the 45-70 or a 308. At 50 yards, yes, 8x11 paper should do it for a Guide Gun. But why constrain yourself unless the goal is killing it in a certain way? If the bull is 140 yards away on a rifle hunt? Or moving thru brush and only giving windows for a shot- even at closer range.
Naphtali-- He is hunting moose, not grizzly bears. I wouldn't use these bullets on grizzly bear either. But I have on moose and the results were good for me.
18 June 2018, 03:23
p dog shooterquote:
But why constrain yourself unless the goal is killing it in a certain way?
Exactly.
18 June 2018, 05:26
groundtenderYup, you’ve sold me. The .308 has a better scope and is lighter. Thanks
in a word, N O . I shot extra large bison with that factory load 4 times at 76 yards, broadside, none went all the way through. needs more weight. deer, hogs, ok if your shots are in the zone but there are lots of better factory loads out there. try looking at buffalo bore loadings.
13 October 2018, 15:58
groundtenderUsed the .308 with 150 grain Barnes Triple Shock. Very effective on a 48” Maine bull with 22 REAL points.
13 October 2018, 17:30
Mike_Dettorrewell where are the pics?
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.
What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
13 October 2018, 20:09
OLBIKERquote:
Originally posted by buckeyeshooter:
No way for me! I have not used it in 45/70. However in the 308 Marlin express it fragmented badly, so badly there was no exit wound on 100 to 150 pound deer. I shot 7 deer with it, all in the shoulder joint or in the ribcage. I am not at all impressed with this bullet.
I suggest a 350 grain Hornady roundnose ( not flatpoint, the roundnose is made for 458wm) or a 300 grain Nosler partition if you can find them.
Did it kill them??
13 October 2018, 20:12
OLBIKERMy Grandpa killed many moose with a 32/20.All head or neck shots.None of them ran away.
13 October 2018, 20:24
groundtenderMike - Ha! Got about 5 minutes into an attempt to post pics. Not going to happen unless someone pm’s me with a phone # I can text them too.
Olbiker - Ya, all now dead poachers from before modern moose hunting started in 1980 in Maine claimed that a .30-30 was all you needed. What they failed to mention was that they were also taking ear shots from about 10 yards. Of course I am in no way including your grandpa in such a group of reprobates.
13 October 2018, 21:02
Mike_Dettorregroundtender's bull...
Wow - what a moose. That is a monster for Maine. Quite frankly, a fantastic bull anywhere other than the true trophy regions of Alaska and the Yukon and I would be hard pressed to pass it up there beyond the first day.
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
13 October 2018, 22:26
crsheltonGreat moose and great photo!
The wet critter and antlers are very photogenic!
NRA Life Benefactor Member,
DRSS, DWWC, Whittington
Center,Android Reloading
Ballistics App at
http://www.xplat.net/ 13 October 2018, 23:49
p dog shooterA very nice bull
15 October 2018, 17:06
BuglemintodayGreat bull! Did you recover the bullet or a complete pass thru?
That is a giant Maine Moose!
"Let me start off with two words: Made in America"
15 October 2018, 21:11
Lamarlook at the nose on that guy, it must be a foot long.
nice Bull.
16 October 2018, 02:18
groundtenderquote:
Originally posted by Buglemintoday:
Great bull! Did you recover the bullet or a complete pass thru?
That is a giant Maine Moose!
. Bullet probably in Ste-Zacharie,Quebec area
16 October 2018, 05:44
CrazyhorseconsultingAs far as I am concerned, does not matter what it was shot with, that is a moose to be damn proud of, CONGRATULATIONS!!!
Even the rocks don't last forever.
20 October 2018, 02:51
AtkinsonI like that Leverevolution powder in my 25-35 and 30-30..I picked up some good velocity with it. Maybe it would get some more velocity out of a 45-70, it sure needs it..Ive witnessed some poor kills with the holy grail of the lever action shooters of that caliber..that bullet should do the trick..not so sure about the caliber anymore..I prefer the 45-90 and even better the 45/120 or 140..
The only bullet I liked in the 45-70 or the 45-90 was the Hornady 350 gr. RN that was designed for the .458 Win. at the time..it was tough enough, but I didn't care for the 45-70 at all base on my experience shooting game with it. I have some of that on film btw..
Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120
rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
23 October 2018, 08:58
buckeyeshooterquote:
Originally posted by OLBIKER:
quote:
Originally posted by buckeyeshooter:
No way for me! I have not used it in 45/70. However in the 308 Marlin express it fragmented badly, so badly there was no exit wound on 100 to 150 pound deer. I shot 7 deer with it, all in the shoulder joint or in the ribcage. I am not at all impressed with this bullet.
I suggest a 350 grain Hornady roundnose ( not flatpoint, the roundnose is made for 458wm) or a 300 grain Nosler partition if you can find them.
Did it kill them??
actually, I put a round in the chamber using a 150 grain Barnes X and finshed 2 deer with a second shot immediately. The other ones did eventually die but required a second and one a 3rd shot. As the longest possible shot from my stand is 130 yards, most shots inside 75 yards and I have a string running of 137 deer killed with 138 shots with my 308 winchester 700 using 180 grain gamekings.... this is substandard performance.
24 October 2018, 23:01
maxenergyThere are a lot better bullet options available than those from Hornady. Barnes immediately comes to mind.
Bob
27 October 2018, 03:07
BuffHunter63Guy in bear camp shot a bear in the back with the Hornady 325 gr tipped bullet. Bear flipped on its back and wriggled a bit before it jumped up and ran off, never to be seen.
Swift as a nice factory load A Frame in 45-70 that I would use over the 325, Hornady.
JMO
BH63
Hunting buff is better than sex!
30 October 2018, 05:32
domitI shot a huge bison with the hornady round and it did not go through to far side. I would not use it again on anything other than deer and maby close range hogs.
11 November 2018, 08:38
georgeldHell of a nice bull, I like the shape of
the rack. Looks very colorful with the wet.
Nose is a whole lot longer than any foot!
Congrats on the bull.
George
"Gun Control is NOT about Guns'
"It's about Control!!"
Join the NRA today!"
LM: NRA, DAV,
George L. Dwight
17 November 2018, 01:24
AtkinsonI missed that, I was thinking the lever power powder, which I like btw..
As to 45-70 bullets I used the 350 gr Hornady of yesterday, made for the 458 Ive been told and it was a decent bullet, its the caliber that Ive seen fail many times and have some of those failures on film..I tracked and elk two miles double lunged with a handloaed nosler partition from a Ruger no. 1, caught up with the elk and the owner said don't shoot him yet we want one shot kills, I waited a bit then told the shooter to finish the poor bastard off or I was going to, he didn't I did and the owner guide and I had a cuss fight and I quit booking for the sorry bastard...I consider waiting for an animal to die just to prove a point rude behavior at its best..
Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120
rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com