Here is a link to an article on the cartridge:
http://www.rifleshooter.com/Project%20guns/300wsm.htm

AD

I have wondered if I'd be better off just going with a 300 Win Mag rather than the 300 WSM. Any comments?

Is this cartridge just as safe as a lower pressure cartridge? I am not even sure of what the SAAMI CUP is for the .300 WSM but I heard verbally that its over 60000!

Can you reload it to factory specs or is it like a Hornady Light Magnum load that I can't get the same powder for?

The IMR site shows the .300 Win Mag loaded to a maximum of 54,000 CUP, The Hornady manual I have says the SAAMI maximum pressure for that cartridge is 54,000 cup.

Who has the SAAMI specs for the .300 WSM?

Can the .300 WSM be loaded to factory ballistics by the average reloader?

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David Sipe

Politicians and diapers have one thing.in common:
They should both be changed regularly, and for the same reason

Those who don't understand the benefits of case design as proven by the PPC and Remington BR cases will never-ever be convinced of the power of an efficient use of powder.

If you hunt in the States or perhaps Canada, getting ammo in a pinch might not be too difficult.

However, if you're planning an overseas hunt, finding WSM ammo could be a challenge, while 300 H&H or 300 Win Mag ought to be more or less available.

I would not load the 30-06 to the same pressure level as the .300 Win Mag. Don't forget the 800,000 low number Springfields.

I don't appreciate and believe any benefits in velocity for the PPC or BR cartridges! Accuracy yes, in heavy bbls.

That's an interesting article, but I think that Kudu needs to calibrate his calipers if he measured that three shot group at 0.317" (looks more like a .5 the way I measure groups, center-to-center).

Bill

Great...you have an opinion!

However, if you aren't stuck on a short action, I don't really see why you'd choose it over the 300 Win Mag.

Don't believe the efficiency hype. Any cartridge with a better expansion ratio (less "overbore") will be a bit more efficient...but not enough to make up for 10 grains less powder. Factory loads for the WSM that are so hot many have noticed pressure signs from them barely equal the most anemic factory loads for the Win. Load both to the same pressure, the Win will easily beat the WSM with any bullet. If I recall correctly, the SAAMI max for both is 65,000 psi.

Then again, how much power do you want? The 300 RUM will fit in many "standard length" actions. It has about the same advantage over the WSM as the 300 Weatherby has over the 30-06--a pretty significant one.

[This message has been edited by Jon A (edited 01-10-2002).]

I went to both webpages and they don't have the numbers, just ad stuff.

Safe Shooting!
Steve Redgwell
303british.com

Take a look at his reloading data:

http://www.lazzeroni.com/ct_reload_patriot.htm

Do you see the pressures listed there? Up to 67,500 psi!

That's well above SAAMI max pressure for any cartridge and higher than you'd see in any reloading manual for any cartridge. His brass handles it because it is made especially for him--really tough. Try getting those velocities with cheap Remington brass.... That isn't efficiency, that's using a bigger hammer.

I don't know the exact case capacity of the Patriot, but if it's 10 grains less than the 300 Win then it's pretty close to the WSM. Here's what that case is capable of when loaded to "reloading manual pressures:"

http://www.hodgon.com/data/rifle/300winshortmag.htm#top

That said, I have beaten most of those velocities he lists with the bullet weights listed. And yes, that's measured with a chronograph. I usually get 3 to 5 loadings with cheap brass depending upon the load.

In fact, his velocities aren't much better than those from reloading manuals for the 300 Win...at "reloading manual pressures"--MUCH less than 67,500 psi!--many times with a 24" barrel.

His loaded ammo velocities:

http://www.lazzeroni.com/ct_sacart.htm

are partially made possible because he uses specially "undersized and lubed" bullets. And yet they are still less than those listed in the Barnes manual for XLC's in the Win...even with a 24" barrel. Even at normal pressures.

As for my own loads, with a 26" barrel besting 3200 is easy for 180's and 3000 is easy for 200's. Max velocity for uncoated X-bullets is usually at least 50 fps less but since those are what I've been using for the last 10 years or so, those are the loads I'll list:

180 XBT, 80 H1000 for 3195 fps.

200 XFB, 87 H870 for 3004 fps.

Since the X bullets are so high-friction, those are very hot loads and cases only last about 3 loadings.

With a "normal" bullet I can easily beat those velocities with much better brass life. But since those are what I hunt with I thought that's what I should post. Who knows what I would have gotten undersized, moly-coated bullets....

****DISCLAIMER*****
The above loades are max in my rifle....use them without reducing by 10% and you will blow your head off!

I'll give you one reason - It doesn't have that damn silly belt on it. I know - I know. If you reload you can headspace the Win. Mag. on the shoulder. That is not the point. It's that belted bottleneck cartridges just offend me for some reason.

Anyway, the point was I doubt any case that's more than 10% smaller has a chance of getting close to those velocities with those bullets with any load that's even remotely safe--no matter what its shape.

Sorry if you're referring to me as the "correctness police," I don't mean to sound anal. But after reading the WSM "matches" or sometimes even "exceeds" the performance of the bigger cases in every single gun magazine that's been on the shelves the last couple years...it makes me want to scream! Then you hear about people getting ejector marks with factory ammo....

I don't have anything against the WSM, like I said earlier I think it's a nice round. It just gets on my nerves the way Winchester and the gun writers (with a few exceptions) have tried to make it out to be something that it's not.

It's a good enough round to stand on its own merits. But instead of leaving it at that, they've decided they'll sell more guns by hyping it as being something that it isn't with misleading and just plain false information. That just doesn't seem right to me.

Mike M, about the belt--I forgot to mention that. Some peoples' preference of not having it is enough reason to choose the WSM over the Win...whatever makes them happy. Personally, belted cases never bothered me at all, but for some reason I am looking forward to working with the new beltless case. Something different, I guess. There is supposed to be an accuracy advantage to headspacing off the shoulder. How much, if any, will show up in a lightweight hunting rifle I don't know. There's only one way to find out . Also short actions will be stiffer (all else being equal) so there's another accuracy advantage (at least theoretically). Of course, all else being equal it should kick less as well. So I guess there are a couple reasons somebody might choose one over the Win.

"Equaling the velocity" just isn't one of them. Like I said, it's good enough on its own merits without having to make up more.

[This message has been edited by Jon A (edited 01-11-2002).]

It seems to me that the only people trying to compare the WSM to the 300 winnie are those that already have the latter. Most of the people I've seen who have bought them admit that the WSM only approaches or barely meets the Win Mag's velocities.

It amazes me that the cartridge cops, those same people who said we didn't need the .260, can find so much to complain about.
If you don't like the idea, don't buy one.
Ken

quote:

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Originally posted by DB Bill:
I really don't understand why someone would want to blast a cartridge and seemingly impose his opinions on someone else....the "correctness" police are all over and I wish they would find a life.

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DB,
Well said and not to mention all the "Ackley Bashers" on this forum! sure-shot

The few fellows that I knew that had .30/06AIs tended to really push the envelope to get the very limited velcoity increases they achieved...same for the Gibbs design as far as that goes.

It seems as though this is a pot-calling-the-kettle-black sort of argument. From my perspective, the "thought police" are the guys who would love to shut guys like me up.

AD

The cartridge, as far as I am concerned is a heck of a new cartridge for most any size NA game.
After a little trigger work, and pressure bedding on the rifle, it has turned in nothing but very very good groups with everything I have tried in it. It shoots the 150, 165, and the 180 grain bullet weights all very well.

I guess it doesn't accomplish, ballistically speaking, anything that some cartridges that came before it had already done. But, it sure does seem to me, that the short fatties, in the mold of the PPCs, sure do work for accuracy on a very consistent basis.

Factory ammo is left wanting at this point, but everyone seems to be jumping on the bandwagon.
I don't think this shortie, is a here today, gone tomorrow cartridge.