I have to say, who cares?

Any of these rifles will take a deer.

We even agree, that a 223 is probably better for deer then any of these cartridges.

If you want to really go up from this class of cartridges, you really need to jump up to a 375.

So, what are you going to say the 375 won't do that a 7008 will??? ROFL

gs

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I love 45
santilli@singleaction45.com

gs

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I love 45
santilli@singleaction45.com

I never said the 223 is better for Deer. I said I like it and when used within it's limits,it does tidy work.

What will a 7-08 do,that a 375 won't?
1)Shoots flatter
2)Recoils less
3)More accurate
4)Burns substantially less powder
5)Cheaper to shoot

On and on...............

weidmansheil

martin

2)Recoils less
No argument
3)More accurate
Look up a thread:What's your most accurate big bore?
416 and 375, in the right gun, drive tacks. One hole...
4)Burns substantially less powder
Congrats, Sherlock...
5)Cheaper to shoot
Again, Mr. Holmes is in the house..."

Does the 375 have any advantages over the 7-08????

Keep in mind, this rifle has a 25 inch barrel...

gs

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I love 45
santilli@singleaction45.com

hahah, I guess, if you say I'm a S/F, then it must be so, I've been called worse. Glad you let me know, I'm relieved...whew,

JR

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God Bless and Shoot Straight

I'm sure we can go on forever and the only response that I'll get from you is the standard show me data garbage. The data has been shown and you simply don't like it,because the facts still support the 30/06 as a better performer. Your 600 yard comparison is worthless,so I'll spare everyone from hearing it again.

The truth is BS,you don't like the barrel length issue because the only way the 7-08 becomes a real performer is with less than standard length barrels in other words 24 to 26 inch barrels. If barrel length doesn't matter then why do magnums always wear longer barrel lengths? Also if 100-150 fps gain is no big deal,then why would anybody need to shoot a magnum. Since that is what the average magnum does,it adds 100-150 fps more speed than a standard round.

You speak of things you do not know.

1)You are guessing at things you've never seen or done.

3) I needn't look up a thread. I've had 5 seperate 375H&H's and two Custom built Rem 700 based 375H&H Ackley Improveds.

The 375 while a very friendly and accurate cartridge,doesn't have the highest grade of projectiles available to it,to eek the highest levels of accuracy. Bullets make little groups,in the final analysis,if all else is even(and it isn't).

Why not the 375-50BMG? Instead of the 375H&H?. Or the 375-50BMG Ackley Improved. Or the 50-20mm Pac-Nor Ackley Improved?

Just curious,as to what you find infinitely superior,in regards to a cartridge I doubt you have ANY trigger time on?...........

444,

Everyone has their calling,I guess mine is the SMF Ringleader............

RMK,

I kill quite a few critters with a lowly XP-100 in 7-08.

The barrel length was of zero concern to me. My hands were tied,because the printed data resources use a longer barrel length than most deem acceptable. That is out of my control. I have 7-08's from 14"-24". The 14" will make better than 2500fps with 140's,the 24's will meeet as a minimum or exceed data thus far mentioned. The 22" is less than 50fps slower. So I don't get too concerned with shit that really doesn't matter(50fps).

My point is/was,now that you Gents have some numbers you feel cozy with,what can't the 7-08 do in comparison? That in regards to killing critters,beings long distance paper is noone's concern?

I don't know what an "average magnum" is. The 280Ackley has an increase of performance over the 7-08,but it isn't a "magnum"(in my opinion).

The 7mmRemmag is certainly capable of more than your established 100-150fps,"typical magnum" increase,over the 7-08. Yes,even with a short 24" barreled 7mmRemmag(one of my favorites).120's at 3500fps and 140's at 3300fps,is standard fare,through my barrels,in that chambering.

You quote the following:
" The truth is BS,you don't like the barrel length issue because the only way the 7-08 becomes a real performer is with less than standard length barrels in other words 24 to 26 inch barrels."

Now the 7-08 is a "magnum" that requires 26" of barrel length to effectively utilize a meager 45grs of propellant? I suppose in your infinite wisdom,the 30-06 which is of 30% more capacity,would REQUIRE a 33.8" barrel(30% increase in length,over a 26" baseline)?.

There are simply cartridges that make amazingly effective use of their capacity. Those efficient numbers share one attribute. They are NOT as dependant upon barrel length,as larger cases are,in a direct comparison.

A 22" barreled 7-08 will make 2800fps with a 140gr projectile.

This stuff is very easy to grasp,when you own the rifles and have a PACT chronograph............

**note, I am obviously referring to jacketed bullets in my theoretical comparison, not monolithics or solids.

Later, Much Later
ZM

Nowhere will you see,I said "better". My contention throughout,is that there are numerous cartridges of this performance level.

In some printed data,the 7-08 "wins". In others,the '06 "wins". I rate them as very comparable,in raw performance. Others see it differently. I mentioned that data could be swayed either way,it was so close.

SD isn't something I get giddy about. It is a mechanical factor,that is expressed numerically. It does not take into account,projectile construction or velocity. Those are variables that bear heavily upon penetration(SD the theoretical numerical expression of that capability).

I like good bullets in everything. For that reason,I changed data submitted by others in comparison,for a superior .308" projectile(X bullet) to equate things more evenly,throughout the discussion.

Energy values,are also a theoretical numerical evaluation process. I really don't get too concerned with that either. Again,because those values do not weigh projectile integrity.

To clarify,you could use the 30-06 with 165's at whatever speed everybody likes. However,depending upon placement,the relative effectiveness of that load will be quite different,upon exact projectile choice,while still within that diameter and weight. Some would deem the 165gr Ballistic Tip as bottled lightning for Elk. Other's a GameKing. Myself,I KNOW what an X bullet will do,so I side with it,for most everything.

What velocity retention(BC)does,is promote projectile expansion and tissue damage. An exit,gives another hole for blood to leak out. None of those things harmful,to the dealing out,of rapid death.

I never said that the 7-08 will dig deeper than an '06(though depending upon projectiles in each,it certainly has that potential and vice versa). I said it will dig deep enough,hit hard enough,to readily swat stuff to the ground.

Moreover,my point is,that this is minutia in the actual scheme off things. Both cartridges fire similar projectiles,at similar velocities.

Poor bullets in either,will hinder performance. Optimal in each,will certainly help.

I like to break shoulders,when given the opportunity. Due to that penchant,I shoot bullets that allow me that possibility.

So my point is,if you are shooting like constructed bullets in each,their performance will mirror each other. Penetration,expansion,"energy" and exit wound size will be quite similar.

Put either in anything that resembles a good spot and you are punching tags. Very easy,all of it...............

john holmes,

I was unaware of the Mafia vendetta,in regards to published 7-08 data. Certainly a conspiracy there!

So you deem the 30-06 is a more efficient case and makes better use out of shortened tubes?

Quite humorous to me,that 2 inches of barrel and 50 feet in initial velocity,has you ranting. Subtract 50fps from any data mentioned and you have 22" 7-08 data.

If that was too technical,I'll happily slow down and elaborate for you...........

Zeke,

The facts you mention,is what I have related all along. The middleground the '06 occupies,has much company. That was the focal point.

Now you will become a victim and fall within the membership of the SMF Club...............

I hope that is clear enough for you and your fellow combatants!

ZM

Big Stick,
Thanks for elaborating, I think.....I just seem to recall you toting the benefits of the higher SD, BC, and Velocity of the 7'08 in your earlier threads...I could be wrong though, wouldn't be the first time. I just thought it was time to bring in some other criteria to base these to cartridges on, seeing as how it's not the caliber designation that kills the animal, rather, it's the projectile.

John Holmes....
Are you always this easily riled???

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God Bless and Shoot Straight

It seems that anyone that doesn't deem the 30-06 as the best of the best. Is the recipient of the blue streak cussing treatment. After the cussing out,they are members of the SMF Club.

What's clear,is your quarrel isn't with me..........

444,

Actually,what I stated was in the comparisons offered. The .284" projectile had a slight SD advantage,generally had the BC advantage,some velocity advantage and an accuracy advantage.

Those advantages,though not startling when weighed solo,lend to that cartridge's overall effectiveness when melded together.

It is a nice design,that is well rounded and has many strengths,that would betray it's "size"....................

<<My contention throughout,is that there are numerous cartridges of this performance level.>>

You're right, the 7'08 isn't 'superior' nor is the 30'06...that's why we have our .338 Ultra mags How's yours treating you btw? I just topped mine w/ a weaver grand slam...hope to sight it in soon. Good to get these things sorted out. Now it's off to bigger and better things (topics) Oh yeah, you never got back to me about that treasurer's position in the SMF club... I jest, I jest

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God Bless and Shoot Straight

That said, I hardly ever touch either one of these rifles any more. I now have two .270s for antelope and mule deer (each zeroed with different bullets); a .300 Win Mag for elk and moose; a .243 for hogs; a .35 Remington with open sights for still hunting on rainy in heavy brush; a .260 Remington for days I just want to use a light, accurate rifle; and, I recently ordered a custom .300 WSM simply because I want one!

Now, have I ever taken any game with these other guns that I couldn't have taken with either one of my '06s? Probably not, with the exception being a couple of deer I've taken with the .35 with open sights after being jumped (folks in my hunting club call it my full-auto lever action).

For years, I was a one caliber kind of guy, and it served me well. Now I prefer to hand load and for my guns to specialize.

And besides, it keeps me off the streets!

quote:

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Originally posted by Dogger:
This post explores the reasons why the 30-06 is not your first choice of a hunting rifle for big game.

I have been avoiding purchasing a 30-06 for 10 years, because "everyone has one" and "I want to be different" and the "30-06 is jack of all trades but master of none".

Hence, I have dabbled with the 7x57, the 6.5x55, and the 30-30 (OK, everyone has a 30-30!) Now, I only hunt white tails and black bear. Maybe someday I will get to hunt sheep, wild hogs, elk, moose, or antelope...

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I own two .30-06 rifles, including my first ever centerfire rifle. The .30-06 is one of the most versatile cartridges of all time. In fact I have used mine to hunt and kill everthing from ground squirrels & prairie dogs to antelope, deer, and elk.

That being said, my opinion of the '06 is that it is good for many applications but great at nothing. You said it best, jack of all trades, master of none. In my opinion that sum's up my experience with it.

I find it a little too much for deer, a little too slow for antelope, a little to slow and light for elk. Sure, it'll work on all three but for the way I hunt, there are better caliber choices:

Prairie dogs: Used the .30-06 w/ 110 gr. Sierra hollow points. Good accuracy but lacked precision for long shots. Now use 6BR, .22-250, and .22 Hornet.

Antelope: 6BR, 6mm Remington, .25-06 preferred.

Deer: Prefer the .308, .44 Mag pistol, .25-06 and 6mm Remington.

Elk: Prefer the 300 Win Mag (Sendero configuration) and .375 H&H.

I haven't hunted with my '06 in years and really haven't missed it. I might also argue that the "one gun" honor would go to the .375 H&H if I had to distill it all down to a single firearm. The .375 H&H has more recoil than an '06 but contrary to what many believe it is a flat shooting, game getting, meat preserving caliber. It's recoil is not very noticable in field shooting conditions. It tends to have negligible blood shock. It can be very accurate and usfull for most game species on the planet should tne need, desire, and opportunity arise. I've even shot a few antelope and prairie dogs with it. Both hunts were very enjoyable.

In the end, buy what you really want. I have four sons and when they get to the point that they'll need their own rifle which will serve them for most of the animals they would like to shoot for their first years out of the house, it'll likely be a 300 Win Mag or 7mm Remington Magnum. For my hunting style in Colorado they just work better than the '06.

re5513

Antelope: 6BR, 6mm Remington, .25-06 preferred.

Deer: Prefer the .308, .44 Mag pistol, .25-06 and 6mm Remington.

Elk: Prefer the 300 Win Mag (Sendero configuration) and .375 H&H.

I haven't hunted with my '06 in years and really haven't missed it. I might also argue that the "one gun" honor would go to the .375 H&H if I had to distill it all down to a single firearm. The .375 H&H has more recoil than an '06 but contrary to what many believe it is a flat shooting, game getting, meat preserving caliber. It's recoil is not very noticable in field shooting conditions. It tends to have negligible blood shock. It can be very accurate and usfull for most game species on the planet should tne need, desire, and opportunity arise. I've even shot a few antelope and prairie dogs with it. Both hunts were very enjoyable.

In the end, buy what you really want. I have four sons and when they get to the point that they'll need their own rifle which will serve them for most of the animals they would like to shoot for their first years out of the house, it'll likely be a 300 Win Mag or 7mm Remington Magnum. For my hunting style in Colorado they just work better than the '06.

re5513 "

Yes, I noticed that even with very high velocity, the 110's were not all that accurate.

As I have stated before, for deer, why not 223? Supported by Big Stick, I think, prior.

Elk, don't know, but it would seem a 375 H&H would do the job, but, since I've never fired one, I guess all that stuff other people write is invalid...

gs

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I love 45
santilli@singleaction45.com

quote:

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Originally posted by BusPilot:
I don't mean to be rude; I truly don't...but I was just wondering. Do you guys who post 10 times on each thread have jobs? I enjoy discussing this stuff as much as anyone, but I also have to go work and more importantly go handload and shoot!

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Who is it that has more time on their hands, the guys who make this stuff or the guys that dig it up after its dead and gone?