The Accurate Reloading Forums
How big is this Muley?
24 February 2017, 06:55
FjoldHow big is this Muley?
This is supposed to be a road killed buck from Arizona. I'm lost trying to guess how big it is.
Frank
"I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money."
- Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953
NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite
24 February 2017, 06:58
DTalanot as big as the camera angle makes it look...
Birmingham, Al
24 February 2017, 07:07
Crazyhorseconsultingquote:
not as big as the camera angle makes it look...
Until the score is made public, it looks every bit as big as the picture makes it appear.
Even the rocks don't last forever.
24 February 2017, 07:11
Mike_DettorreBig enough to be a once in a lifetime buck for almost everybody
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.
What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
24 February 2017, 07:20
SnellstromI saw this picture a few weeks ago maybe longer, the caption said it was a suburban New Mexico Buck, Albuquerque or Santa Fe I don't recall.
Not sure what is correct but it really doesn't matter.
One hell of a Buck!
I'm not going to venture a measurement but I will say it is a shooter.
24 February 2017, 07:30
kda55Eye sockets roughly 6-7" across ctr-ctr give or take. You do the math. Beautiful specimen.
24 February 2017, 07:36
dogcat220" +/-
24 February 2017, 09:14
AntlersBig enuf!
Antlers
Double Rifle Shooters Society
Heym 450/400 3"
24 February 2017, 09:33
COYOTE HUNTERRoad kill buck from NM.
Supposedly measured 218.
With that much mass I would have guessed more.
24 February 2017, 09:54
DLSCoyote hunter nailed it. This was a buck killed by a car in New Mexico. Score was reported as 218". I believe it was from near Taos, not Albuquerque.
Incredible buck!
24 February 2017, 15:10
GracedogIf that's "only 218", it's a hell of a camera angle. I shot a 204 in 2005, and it doesn't compare to that.
24 February 2017, 17:44
CrazyhorseconsultingI may be wrong, but I am going along with 220 or more.
Even the rocks don't last forever.
24 February 2017, 19:17
nopride2I think I will have to go to New Mexico and drive the roads. The buck of a lifetime.
Dave
25 February 2017, 00:17
impala#03Between Aztec and Farmington, NM last fall I saw one similar to that one hit by a car. I had to shoot it, it was all busted down in the hind end. HELL of a buck.
25 February 2017, 00:21
DesertRamquote:
Originally posted by COYOTE HUNTER:
Road kill buck from NM.
Supposedly measured 218.
With that much mass I would have guessed more.
This is what I've heard, though my source says it's a townie from Los Alamos.
_____________________
A successful man is one who earns more money than his wife can spend.
25 February 2017, 01:54
Scott KingThe officer in the picture is a dwarf. 3'6" tall, 78#'s.
The buck measures 335".
25 February 2017, 02:09
Grizzly AdamsSize of that skull, it'd have to be elk size.
Grizz
Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal. John E Pfeiffer, The Emergence of Man
Those who can't skin, can hold a leg. Abraham Lincoln
Only one war at a time. Abe Again.
25 February 2017, 05:20
OLBIKERI would shoot him!!!
28 February 2017, 22:02
AtkinsonId of run over him too!
I would bet dollars to donuts that buck will score in the 230s..Ive seen some 230 bucks and that's not trick photography..We got a 233 buck of one of the ranches I was booking for in Texas very near to NM and Ive seen awesome bucks in that area both in Texas and NM in the Hobbs area..None of which would quite score what that buck looks like to me...but its a picture and mostly were flying by the seat of our pants judgeing from photographs..
BTW that is a New Mexico state trouper uniform.
Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120
rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
28 February 2017, 23:21
DesertRamquote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
BTW that is a New Mexico state trouper uniform.
Negative. Our Game and Fish recently moved to gray uniform shirts from the previous blue. Most wear black Wranglers rather than uniform trousers. That's a game warden. To the best of my knowledge, state police officers still wear black and gray.
_____________________
A successful man is one who earns more money than his wife can spend.
01 March 2017, 20:57
jstevensquote:
Originally posted by Fjold:
This is supposed to be a road killed buck from Arizona. I'm lost trying to guess how big it is.
The picture is deceiving, but forgetting that, the point he has his hand wrapped around has to be 5.5-6 in around. I hate the purposely deceptive pictures AKA Chuck Adams poses.
A shot not taken is always a miss
02 March 2017, 03:17
Biebsquote:
I hate the purposely deceptive pictures AKA Chuck Adams poses.
Yes, Ole smiling Chuck was so far back he wasn't even in the same Zip Code :-)
02 March 2017, 18:05
JGRaiderAnyone that thinks that's not a slammer of a buck hasn't seen many of 'em. I don't care what the angle, how far in front, etc....that's a freaking monster buck.
02 March 2017, 18:44
Crazyhorseconsultingquote:
Anyone that thinks that's not a slammer of a buck hasn't seen many of 'em. I don't care what the angle, how far in front, etc....that's a freaking monster buck.
EXACTLY. There will always be "Boo Birds" finding fault with pictures like this. It will be interesting to find out what it scores.
I think some of those commenting about will be surprised.
Even the rocks don't last forever.
02 March 2017, 22:55
AtkinsonThat is a really outstanding buck, wish to hell I could have shot him..Ive shot a hell of a lot of big Mule Deer in my life, Not one was that good I don't think, My best is just a hair off 35 iches in spread and a lot of mass, and that buck goes past the officers shoulder that much..
I don't see how that can be trick photography as he is holding the deer in front of his body and no distance in between him and the deer..That bucks the real deal.
Desert Ram,
like you said NM highway patrol still wear black and gray, thus my post. Isn't that what he is wearing..I have not seen a NM game warden in some time, just going by what I knew when I lived in El Paso, and hunted NM a lot, but times do change, but how can you tell he is a game warden, and inasmuch as it was a road kill I suspected the officer was investigating a accident and got his picture taken...Anyway that was my best guestamate.
Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120
rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
03 March 2017, 03:11
DesertRamYep, great buck regardless of camera angle. Beats anything I've shot in this state, and is bigger probably than anything I've seen on the hoof here.
You're right Ray, that's what he's wearing; I wasn't very clear. NM State cops wear mostly black with a bit of gray trim, not solid gray shirts like this guy.
NMSP
I put him as a game warden because of the gray shirt (Game and Fish) and sidearm (law enforcement) like this guy:
_____________________
A successful man is one who earns more money than his wife can spend.
03 March 2017, 03:31
drummondlindsey
03 March 2017, 16:09
Outdoor Writerquote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
Isn't that what he is wearing..I have not seen a NM game warden in some time, just going by what I knew when I lived in El Paso, and hunted NM a lot, but times do change, but how can you tell he is a game warden, and inasmuch as it was a road kill I suspected the officer was investigating a accident and got his picture taken...Anyway that was my best guestamate.
Truly unbelievable how the buck got caped during the accident.
Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer"
03 March 2017, 19:08
taylorce1That's an awesome buck, but agree the camera angle might make him look bigger than he is.
How big do you think this buck is?
Change the angle and put a guy in there who is 5'8" tall and maybe 150 lbs, how big is he now?
It doesn't change the fact the deer is still a hell of a deer, and a great accomplishment for a plains archery deer that my buddy stalked and arrowed inside of 10 yards. However he looks much bigger in the second picture than the first.
03 March 2017, 19:32
CrazyhorseconsultingJust a comment here, and it is not concerning the buck being discussed.
Weekend before or two weekends deer season opened in 2015, Lora and I were going out to check on some feeders that I was servicing north of Olney over in Archer county. As we were passing by one of the pastures my boss has under lease, I noticed a deer's carcass lying up next to the fence.
We drove on out, tended to the feeders and coming back I told Lora I was going to stop and check the carcass. When I pulled off to the side of the road I noticed that the only part of the carcass that was lying there was the chest, front shoulders and abdomen, hind quarters and head were gone.
I called my boss and gave him a description of what I had found and he then called the Archer County GW, as from what I was l looking at and the description I gave my boss, we both figured it was a buck.
After talking to the GW, Robert called me back and relayed that it was a buck, a nice buck that an Archer County Deputy Sheriff had hit. The Deputy contacted the GW and he went out to the site and salvaged the hindquarters and head.
Turned out that it was a buck that went 155 and a fraction over. The hunters in the pasture the buck was headed for when it got hit had been watching it for the previous 2 years and were just waiting for it to get some age and size.
Even the rocks don't last forever.
This buck is incredible, period. But it is easy to see why he doesn't score higher. Simply put, the buck lacks tine length on the left side. Not taking anything away from him, just trying to explain for those who think he looks way bigger. Mass is important and very desirable, but when it comes to score, tine length is where it's at. The front half of rack generally counts for about 40% of gross score, and the main beams are average, left G4 fairly short. I was hunting unit 13A of the Arizona Strip two years ago. One of the guys in camp shot a giant that was very heavy and 36 1/2" wide. Frame a tad bigger than this buck. We scored it several times and kept coming up with 216". Most of the guys, me included, thought it looked bigger.
Score doesn't matter with these bucks. Most hunters will never see a buck this big while hunting, let alone kill one.
I'd be very interested in seeing Drummond Lindsey's thoughts on this rack.
03 March 2017, 20:14
p dog shooterBig enough to say shoot him.
04 March 2017, 04:41
CrazyhorseconsultingI really hope someone is able to find out the actual score on that buck, because I really want to see the "Expert's" explanations as to why they did not believe the buck scores what it does!
Even the rocks don't last forever.
04 March 2017, 10:53
dr_dog_guyquote:
posted 02 March 2017 16:11
I put him as a game warden because of the gray shirt (Game and Fish) and sidearm (law enforcement) like this guy:
He's a captain with game and fish, in Albuquerque now but used to be stationed in Farmington. He won officer of the year this year. So yes, he's a game warden.
Chuck
04 March 2017, 11:12
drummondlindseyquote:
Originally posted by DLS:
This buck is incredible, period. But it is easy to see why he doesn't score higher. Simply put, the buck lacks tine length on the left side. Not taking anything away from him, just trying to explain for those who think he looks way bigger. Mass is important and very desirable, but when it comes to score, tine length is where it's at. The front half of rack generally counts for about 40% of gross score, and the main beams are average, left G4 fairly short. I was hunting unit 13A of the Arizona Strip two years ago. One of the guys in camp shot a giant that was very heavy and 36 1/2" wide. Frame a tad bigger than this buck. We scored it several times and kept coming up with 216". Most of the guys, me included, thought it looked bigger.
Score doesn't matter with these bucks. Most hunters will never see a buck this big while hunting, let alone kill one.
I'd be very interested in seeing Drummond Lindsey's thoughts on this rack.
Not much to add as you hit the nail on the head. This deer proves a couple of truths:
1. It's difficult to judge a deer based on just pictures like the one the in the original post unless you're used to looking at really big deer
2. You can never judge the true "greatness" of any animal based on merely inches
3. Mass trumps all
4. If Rays deer were bigger than this I still want to see pictures
The deer allegedly grosses 218" and that's about what it looks like to me. The difference between a deer with an above average 38" of total mass and a deer with unreal mass like this deer is going to look like it's a lot more than the 6-8" it really is. It will fool you almost every time. This is a world class deer no matter the score and with the exception of maybe a couple of Governers tags you'd shoot this buck with any tag on any hunt in any state at daylight on the first morning
04 March 2017, 19:08
Sliderquote:
The deer allegedly grosses 218"
I would have guessed higher?
04 March 2017, 19:52
CrazyhorseconsultingI doubt if there is a hunter alive today, and probably all the dead ones, that has spent anytime at all hunting Mule Deer that would have given that buck a pass.
Even the rocks don't last forever.
04 March 2017, 20:00
JGRaiderquote:
Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
I doubt if there is a hunter alive today, and probably all the dead ones, that has spent anytime at all hunting Mule Deer that would have given that buck a pass.
Couldn't agree more CH. It's been entertaining over the years to have mule deer hunters come into camp and make the statement that they want a 200" buck or go home empty. When they see the first 180" buck (which is a great buck anywhere) they about crap their pants.
04 March 2017, 20:37
drummondlindseyquote:
Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
I doubt if there is a hunter alive today, and probably all the dead ones, that has spent anytime at all hunting Mule Deer that would have given that buck a pass.
I've seen guys pass deer like that but they had some pretty special tags and knew of better. For 99.9% of the people you'd be correct. As I stated in my post, with the exception of a few tags, that deer would die opening morning on any hunt, anywhere
05 March 2017, 02:31
CrazyhorseconsultingHaving grown up and hunted Texas after White tails for 46 years, I have never seen a White tail that impresses me the same way even a smaller Muley buck does.
I guess it has to do with how they have to be hunted, the terrain they are hunted in, not sure, but to me Mule Deer are simply impressive animals.
Even the rocks don't last forever.
