WHY LEUPOLD?

16 February 2002, 09:09

JohnTheGreek

monz,

Don't take this personally but . . . do you really believe any Bushnell scope is qualitatively in the same league as any Leupold? I can't even imagine a hypothetical universe where that MIGHT be the case. I can't imagine spending thousands to hunt and risking it all by pinching pennies on a scope. It has also been a while since I have priced Kahles scopes (since my buddy had a bad customer service experience with them) but since when can a comparable Kahles be had for the sub $400US price tag of most Leupolds?
I gotta agree with MontanaMarine that the solidity and reticle choices make the Leupold from Premier Reticles unbeatable unless someone is willing to spend twice or tree times the cash for some top tier German glass.
They could be made anywhere in the world and I would buy a Leupold if the quality and pricing stayed the same.

JMHO,

JohnTheGreek

16 February 2002, 09:11

Crowcommander

Go to Alaska and ask 10 people what kind of scope they use and 8 of them will say "LEUPOLD". I may use a Cheap rifle,but my scope will be LEUPOLD! Good Hunt'n Crowcommander

16 February 2002, 09:39

Tombo21

Leupold are a good value for the money here in the US. In Sweden, Leupold are priced with Kahles, Meopta, and some Zeiss. So we are comparing price on an uneven field.

16 February 2002, 09:52

Big Sky

3 main reasons: 1 Made in the USA. 2. Super eye relief. 3. Best warranty in the scope business...yes even better than Burris'. Other reasons: Good looking scopes, easy and cheap to have target turrets installed, lot's of different models to choose from, consistant reliability. I'm sure there are more, but those are the reasons that first spring to mind.

16 February 2002, 12:26

WyoJoe

quote:
Originally posted by monz:
"MADE IN USA" there we have it! I think that the american patriotism is the main reason why Leupold ( and am. rifles) are so poular on this site...

monz,
Those are good reasons for me but you missed the most important one. They are a flat out good & dependable scope that works. The scope on my .300 H&H is an old Vari-X-II that has been on the rifle for 18 or 19 years now. It has been to the top of several mountains and back down again. It has nicks and dings from where it got banged on rocks. It is still as clear and solid as when the day I got it. When something works & is dependable stay with it. When I get my .458 Lott built you can bet it will have a Leupold on it.

WyoJoe

16 February 2002, 15:50

boltman

Reliability, which is the only thing that really matters in a scope. The others may have better optics but I haven't seen a scope mentioned that I consider to be more rugged and reliable than a Leupold, including the highly touted Zeiss. I've seen a lot more broken Zeiss's than Leupolds.

If someone makes a scope with that's more reliable and has better optical clarity than a Leupold for the same price then I'll buy it. Unfortunately that scope doesn't exist.

16 February 2002, 16:02

<Ross Spagrud>

Did I see someone mention Sightron in the
same breath as Leupold?? LOL!!

I won a Sightron at a prairie dog shoot in
Montana and I was so impressed I gave it to
my 2 year old son to play with.

Ross
www.prairiegunworks.com

16 February 2002, 16:06

DavidReed

I had a Bushnell... after about 15 rounds on a .300 Win. Mag. the reticle was missing! Definitely not in the same class as Leupold.
This last Elk season my dad slipped and fell dropping his rifle in the process, which landed right on the variX-III 2.5x8 mounted on it. The maintube has a large dent on it near the ocular from this. We made no adjustments and were not in an area were the zero could be checked easily/reliably. One week later at the range, still without touching the scope, the rifle was only about 0.5" off at 200 yards. BTW, I bought this scope used at a gunshow, so who knows how it had been taken care of before. This is just one reason why I use Leupold.
Here in the States Kahles are $300 to $400 more the the variX-III line and although a quality optic they are not worth the premium IMHO.

16 February 2002, 16:15

Aquavit

quote:
Originally posted by monz:
"MADE IN USA" there we have it! I think that the american patriotism is the main reason why Leupold ( and am. rifles) are so poular on this site...

Then buy one of your Svensk scopes and stick it ...on whichever of your six guns you choose

16 February 2002, 16:56

Ray, Alaska

At least for me in Alaska, the answer is simple: The 2.5-8x Leupold I use is rugged, and if I damage it I can mail it to Leupold and have it back within a week. I haven't had any problems with two Leupold scopes I own, but after putting a dent on one of them I sent it to Leupold's repair shop to have it checked.

They inspect it for damage, cleaned it, replace the adjusting screws and turret caps, then mailed it to me free of charge! I mailed it to them on a Saturday, and seven days later it was delivered to my door. Leupold scopes are very popular in Alaska where they have built a reputation for holding up to tough weather and hunting conditions.

I do have a set of Leica binoculars, but since I purchased from a Camera store in NY, Leica didn't honor the warranty. Would I buy Leica again? No.

Japanese scope and lenses are good, specially Nikon, and Pentax. Pentax have raised the price of their scopes too much. I like Nikon's F-series cameras and lenses, but when it comes to rifle scopes I only buy Leupold (Burris scopes are a close second).

16 February 2002, 17:19

Wstrnhuntr

The best Bushnell you can get will compare very well to the lesser (old especially) Leupolds from a quality standpoint but it will fall short in the warranty and eye relief categories. Ive heard dozens of stories about Bushnells recitles failing (usually from Leupold advocates) but in 25 years of using them Ive never seen it.

The old Vari-XII is now a VX-I and they are (all) supposed to have something similar to rainguard on them now. That should be a "very" good scope for the money.

16 February 2002, 18:51

Howard

Leupold = Bushnell quality with a top-notch warranty. What do you want to spend your money for? A scope or a warranty?

16 February 2002, 18:58

<sure-shot>

Leupold
1 Quality
2 Eye relief
3 Customer Service
4 U.S. made
5 Rugged
6 Clarity(at least with my eyesight)
7 Price
8 They simply work, no #!%#4* bullsh*t

16 February 2002, 20:39

tsturm

quote:
Originally posted by Howard:
Leupold = Bushnell quality with a top-notch warranty. What do you want to spend your money for? A scope or a warranty?

Howard, You must live too close to the Fertilizer plant! The smell has clouded your mind!! Bushnell's very best is JUNK.

17 February 2002, 09:12

Buell98

Monz- I for one agree with you.

I have looked through many Leupolds and do not like them. The reticle in some angles turns red. I have never seen a German scope do this. The reticles remain a constant dark black no matter what.

I cannot stand the big gold ring on the Vari X3. It is completely useless to me.

The Zeiss conquest line has the SAME glass thats in their top line, but except the scope is made in the us and the body is made with slightly cheaper materials. At 399 they are one of the best bargans around.

I would gladly pay an extra 300-400 for a scope with better glass, is more reliable and plain looks better. Maybe the reason the top european scope makers dont have as good a warranty as Leupold is that their scopes are not in need of a warranty, as they have a very slim chance of breaking.

As to the person who said they have seen more Zeiss' with breakages then Leupold- Please explain the circumstances behind these breakages you have encountered. Were they the scopes fault?

The most important peice of a rifle is the scope. A accurate gun with a crappy scope is worse then a inaccurate gun with a top quality scope.

Maybe if Americans wernt so obsessed with overpowered magnums they wouldnt need 4 inches of eye relief. Schmidt and benders have about 3.5 inches. So .5 inches is a good reason to buy a crappy scope...?

The point about buying Leupolds becuase they are made in the US is lame. Go buy your Brownings made by Moroku of Japan. Your Chevy made in Mexico. Weatherbys from Japan as well... There isnt any qualms about buying those... Its just that people are scared to admit Leupolds arnt all they are said to be...

17 February 2002, 09:22

Norseman

All Leupold lens are made in "Japan" so the scopes are NOT "american" made! They are made by Hakkon of Japan. Hakkon also makes lens for Tasco, Bushnell including the Elite series and I think Nikon. The difference in quality is dependence on the importer/contractor choices of glass quality or grade, lens coating, whether it is coated, multi-coated, fully coated or fully multi-coated. Leupold contracted lens for Vari X 3/LPS are multi-coated which means one layer or one film of coating on lens which are exposed to air, meanwhile Bushnell Elite's are fully multi-coated which means all len's are coated and both sides of the lens throughout the scope.
For tsturm, Bushnell top of the line scope called Elite is superior to leupold vari X 3 and perhap's the LPS in quality of glass and click adjustment. To check for yourself, get a light meter and compare the difference. But I will say that Leupold warranty is superior then any riflescope manufacter. I have several friends who work for Leupold off and on and one of them even installed Leica lens onto his personal vari X 3 riflescope instead of Leupold lens for better resolution. In case for those who do not know, Leupold used to assemble Leica riflescopes and the lens were Leica's.

------------------

17 February 2002, 00:28

John Y Cannuck

When I traded a rifle some years ago, the gunsmith said he thought Bushnells were fine, as long as you had see through mounts for back up.
My moose gun wears a Leupold, and has no metal sights.

17 February 2002, 01:12

<monz>

BUELL! You are a very wise man...

17 February 2002, 03:14

MLindsay

I posted a reply previously concerning scopes and I still believe it is impossible to compare scopes without looking through different scopes at the same object and switching back and forth. I have spent quite alot of time comparing scopes. I spent a period of 1 week looking through 5 brands of scopes, Leupold VIII,B&L 4000,Nikon,Redfield, and Burris all of comparable magnification. This comparison took place about 5 years ago. I finally decided that the B&L 4000 had the best light gathering ability and clarity so that was the one I purchased. A friend of mine is a Swarofski dealer and I spent 2 afternoons with my B&L 4000 and his Swarofski 56mm sitting in a deer stand looking at the same deer. When I told him that there was not much difference between the 2 he quickly stated that was impossible, however he declined to do the same comparison.

All of this being said I now use only Leupold VIII. Why? My 375 destroyed 2 Burris posilocks and Burris did not give adequate help. A friend who spends more time shooting big bores than anybody I know swears by Leupold so I purchased a VIII 3.5 X 10, now with more than 1000 rounds through it the same scope is intact. I have a VIII 1.5 x 5 on my 450 Ackley and it has well over 500 rounds through it with no problem. I still think the best glass I have ever looked through is that B&L 4000 2.5 x 10 but I do not trust its recoil withstanding ability.

Mike

17 February 2002, 03:46

<harkm>

quote:
Originally posted by Buell:
Maybe if Americans wernt so obsessed with overpowered magnums they wouldnt need 4 inches of eye relief. Schmidt and benders have about 3.5 inches. So .5 inches is a good reason to buy a crappy scope...?

Buell, whoa boy! Don't take this so personally! Do you have a hidden axe to grind against Americans?

[This message has been edited by harkm (edited 02-16-2002).]

17 February 2002, 04:43

WyoMan

Norseman,

Through the hype you seem to have taken an objective ;-> look at scopes. The argument most people present reminds me of the chevy/ford arguments teen agers make. I would be really interested in discussing more with you regarding your research.

For the discussion; I buy the tool that will do the job - whatever it is. If a Harbor freight $50.00 1/2 inch drill will do what a $160 dewalt will do, then I will buy the less expensive one and have fun on the difference. What I expect from a scope is magnification, clarity, ruggedness in all weather. I don't care what name or color of circle is on it as long as it can supply the above. Honestly there is way too much hype out there and not enough real facts to make a lot of the statements made here without good research (with calibrated test equipment) and I don't have the time to do a proper job of that. I do enjoy the stories though...

17 February 2002, 05:12

stubblejumper

I replaced my leupold 3.5x10x40s with swarovski 3x10x42's which are much clearer and brighter.Even comparing them to the 50 mm 3.5x10 leupold resulted in the swarovski being brighter even though the lenses are smaller.In canada the leupold 3.5x10x50 sells for about $975 while the swarovski sells for about $1150 so while the swarovski is priced slightly higher it is a much better product.(clearer,brighter,lighter,more compact)

17 February 2002, 05:14

Ter

quote:
Originally posted by ovis:
Leupold Customer Service, second to only BURRIS! The only customer service that overnighted a scope to an outfitter to fly in to a hunter in the bush so the scope the HUNTER DAMAGED would not ruin his hunt.
Burris,IMHO, the best of the U.S.

I have a 6X Burris scope that I sent to Burris. That was last October!!!! It took them 3 months to get it back to me. It was not fixed!!! I "E" mailed them and Gordon in the repair center promised he would personaly take care of the problem. I still do not have that scope. I have never ever had Leopold take more than 7 days to take care of a scope. Ter

17 February 2002, 05:55

<sure-shot>

quote:
Originally posted by harkm:
Buell, whoa boy! Don't take this so personally! Do you have a hidden axe to grind against Americans?

[This message has been edited by harkm (edited 02-16-2002).]

I would say he does. The reason we Americans love the Leupold's long eye relief is because we shoot our rifles from many different positions in the field. You see we are not afraid to hunt hard way up in the woods or mountains and may have to shoot off a log or in prone position off a bluff. Come out and hunt the West U.S. and go home empty-handed because you were overwhelmed by the long shooting distances and the rough terrain. sure-shot

17 February 2002, 07:20

HiWall

If you find an old, broken, unrepairable Leupold in the trash somewhere, pick it up, send it to Leupold and they will send you a new one.
NO-ONE else has Leupold warrantee, because no-one else trusts their own product as much as Leupold do. Thats good enough for me.

I have Trascho, Nikko and Hakko scopes in my junk box, just waiting for me to trade/sell one of my rifles, the leupold on it stays for the new rifle.

17 February 2002, 07:35

tsturm

Monz, Here in ALASKA the best scope I have readily available is LEUPOLD. I have sat at the range and looked through a Bushnell,two different Burris, Weaver GS, Tasco World Class, Redfield, and Nikon all at the same time. All were variable (2x7x32-3x9x44) power. The clearest and brightest was the leupold, #2 I hate to say was the Tasco W.C.. The Nikon tied for#3 with the weaver, #4 Burris. The redfield and Bushnell bother my eyes to took through(feels like my eye is being pulled on?)so they don't count! On two seperate occasions I have Ruined a Leupold scope, #1 I slipped and landed with scope between me 6'2" 235# and 3'of free fall on a very nasty rock. The bell ends were both caved in a little with a nice 1" diam. 1/4" deep dent foreward of the crosshair adjustments, I checked the zero, it had changed by 1/2" right at 100yds. After another five days 1 Elk & 2 Black tail deer(Afognak Island/ Kodiak) I sent it to Leupold with a, I broke it explaination, Five days later a new 3x9x40 VXII showed up at my door FREE!!!. In SCREWUP #2 I put a 2x7 VXII on a VZ24 .458WM I had just finished building. The recoil from the 500g slugs drove the scope foreward with each shot the power selector ring hit the rear mounting ring. It was instantly a 7 power only scope!
I shipped it to Leupold, they had it back at my door in 7 days!!NO CHARGE!!! I have not had the chance to try a European Scope as the cheapest ones I have seen Kahles & Ziess are at least DOUBLE THE PRICE HERE! Here meaning the U.S.A. I have not seen any for sale in Alaska yet! I don't know if they are available in Anchorage or not? I CAN NOT BUY A BETTER SCOPE FOR THE MONEY!!!! Do your very EXPENSIVE european scopes come with a "UNCONDITIONAL FOREVER WARRANTY"
Somebuddy who no?

17 February 2002, 08:43

<Big Stick>

I've had 3 Burris failures,in the field. I waited over 2 months as a minimum,for all repairs,the longest easily twice that.

A pard currently has his 3-12X Signature in for repair,he is getting similar "Service". Needless to say,they lost another customer.

I find the Burris compacts are extremely fickle,in eye-relief,depth of field and field of view. I had my crosshairs rotate about 15 degrees or more,out of vertical alignment. They finally fixed it and I sold it for half of what I gave for it and happily.

I've yet to have a Signature that tracks worth a shit. Have had several 6-24's Targets and still retain a 4-16 Target/mil-dot. I'm patiently awaiting a Burris lover to swap me a Leupold for it. Had a 6-24 posilock fog,costing me a Hunt.

Needless to say,Burris failed to impress me,though I've had very good luck with a 3-9x EER on my XP-100 in 7-08. Their Fullfield line,is much "tougher" than their Signature offerings and the 6-18,tracks well. I've had about 5 of them.

I've more Leupolds than anything and have yet been able,to make one fail. Several have shrugged off abuses,that border on the incredible,as I knew there was no way they were still intact. They continue to impress me.

Weighing all the attributes of strength,weight,eye-relief,durability and a warranty that nobody else in the Industry can come close to. The choice is easy for me.

If you can do it better,for less,more power to you. Just don't say you weren't warned.

I threw out a bunch of broken scopes,when I was Spring cleaning last year. Since then,I've broken 2 Tasco's,another Redfield,a Simmon's and a Bushnell. All are reticle failures,a couple sound like a musical instrument,when you shake them.

Would be very happy to trade them for equally broken Leupolds(grin). Any takers?...................

17 February 2002, 11:43

<Sparticus>

I have to say that Burris is slipping. It seems that when Don Burris left. The Quality went with him. I have a 8-32x target with a slight yellow tint. This is the second time. I have a Burris 6-18x that I have had since I was 16 and their has been no problems. I am 33. I will have to make a change. That target scope, has taken, only 35 round from a .22 hornet, plus three months on my shelf. I won't send her back until this coming November. Thou, I do plan to lie to my friends and tell them that It's a custom tint in the lens. My 6x18 has been on my .30-06 for 10 years and now is on my .22-250 now problems yet.
I have found Burris's customer service to be rather good. Some Defence is needed for them. All thou, they must be busy.

[This message has been edited by Sparticus (edited 02-17-2002).]

17 February 2002, 18:45

TomP

Ahem...

Weatherby makes rifles in Saco, Maine, USA.

Not sure if they still get some from Japan as well or not. I have three Leupolds, no trouble from any of them. One I've had on a 7mm magnum for 20 years, got it used at a gun show to replace a Redfield that fogged up on a $3000 elk hunt.

Tom

17 February 2002, 22:24

Buell98

Harkm-

I do not have an axe to grind, I just get pissed off when people use figures to support their arguement, but these figures do not have a reasonable basis for use.

I am a super classic rifle/cartridge lover, so I could never see using a Leupold for its eye relief. Meaning that I wouldn't ever own any 30 cal rifle over a 300 weatherby. Even that is pushing it for me. Its not that I couldnt take the recoil, but I dont feel the need for it. If a standard action round wont take out the game with nearly almost 100% confidence its time to move to a bigger gun. People have been shooting game for many years with guns even less powerful then the veneralble 30-30.

The times are gone of buying one rifle for general purpose hunting. Today people have several rifles all capable of doing the same task. I would much rather invest into a quality rifle and scope combination I wouldnt have to worry about. If people would buy one gun to hunt game with and make it a good gun and scope, things would be a lot different. I would rather worry about myself then my gear. That means I dont have 3-4 mid caliber rifles, just one that I feel condident in. But thats just how I feel about it, and people are welcome to buy whatever they want to.

Sure-shot:

You assume I am not aware of what hunting is the in midwest, or that I am not from the US. I am from California.

As I said above the euro scopes do not have THAT much less eye relief the Leupolds. The latest Schmitt and Bender scopes have a little less then .5 inches of eye relief then the Leupold. That is not enough difference to go with a Leupold, at least not for me. Maybe if you bought a scope with decent glass you wouldnt go home empty handed so much????

As I wiil always tell people, I couldnt care less what other people are using. I am not the one using it, so I dont care. Just dont try to pump something up to something its not... And that is making the Leupold out to be 'the scope that is needed to hunt in the western us'....