How great is the "need" for Premium bullets in .338wm

15 March 2002, 06:55

Mark G

I may be way off base here but I was thinking, I understand the "need" for premium bullets in a Fast 7mm or 30cal Magnum for greater weight retention,prevent core separation, etc. But when you look at the .338Win with 225 & 250 grain bullets, the velocity range is well under 3000fps (using factory standards) The 225 list at 2780 while the 250gr list at 2660. It seems that "standard" 30cal bullets of like SD hold up at these velocities. So why arn't more .338 Standard bullets going under, say, 2800 fps Recomended for Non-dangerous big game, ie Elk, Black Bear, Moose.
One would think that even Standard bullets in this Caliber would be made slighly "tougher" than lighter weight smaller bore bullets. What is you guy's take/(experience) on this?

------------------
Thanks, Mark G

"Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything." Genesis 9:3

15 March 2002, 09:00

MtElkHunter

Mark
I have used a 338 mag for about 5 years now and have taken a couple of elk and some deer with it. I have used 250 grain Hornady and 250 grain Sierra bullets in it. Both elk were taken with he Hornady bullets and they performed very well. I recovered two of the hornady bullets from elk after about 3 feet of penetration perfectly mushroomed. I have not yet recovered a hornady from a deer. I have shot two deer with the sierra bullet. One was a complete pass thru and the other I found in a deer after about 18 inches of penetration. The sierra I recovered mushroomed very well but I would have expected a complete pass thru on a deer.

I have a couple of friends who use premiums in a 338 and I think the Hornday works just as well. When I get a chance to go after dangerous game (brown bears) I will probably use a premium just for the comfort factor.

15 March 2002, 09:38

bearhunt'r

quote:
Originally posted by Mark G:
One would think that even Standard bullets in this Caliber would be made slighly "tougher" than lighter weight smaller bore bullets. What is you guy's take/(experience) on this?

I would agree with your peception. I have never recovered a single 250 grain Hornady S.P. after taking caribou, black bear or moose. All I have seen is full, sideway penetration. I do indeed use heavy for caliber Swifts for brown bear...I add that there is nothing but nothing wrong with premiums. I believe that a careful match of the projectile for the game sought is an important consideration for a successful hunt. Besides, for me, making those choices (and then doing the load developement,) is a large part of the overall enjoyment of any hunt!
best,
bhtr

15 March 2002, 09:49

Terry Blauwkamp

I think he has a valid point here.

Having used the 338 Mag for 20 years now, and mostly with Hornady Bullets, I must agree.

The 225 Bear Claws and X bullets are really great for Big Bear, Mose, Eland or Zebra, where greater penetration mihgt be wanted.

For the most part, I shoot 225 gr Hornadys and now have even gone to 200 gr Hornadys for open country shots.

Kudu, Wildebeest, Gemsbok, etc, are no match for it.

So far I have only ever recovered one 225 gr bullet. All the rest have passed thru.

This next trip, I plan on testing some of the new Speer 225 gr Grand Slams on plains game.

15 March 2002, 11:25

Sheister

I think Terry hit it right on the head. I've used nothing but Hornady 225 spire points in both my 338's for years and had nothing but great results on all North American game. In Africa, I used the 225 Swifts, but I'm quite sure the Hornadies would have worked just fine as well. I guess it was just the comfort factor, as someone above said.

Another thing I've always been confused about is the feeling that the only bullet weight for the .338 is the 250 grain. I've never seen or heard enough real difference in the results between the 225 and the 250 grainers to give up the slightly better velocity gains and ballistics of the 225 grain loads. Penetration has always been complete from any angle on Elk, Moose, and African plains game in my experience. In fact, my next bullet to try will be the Nosler Partition 210's to see how they fly in my rifle.- Sheister

15 March 2002, 11:58

<T/Jazz>

I havn't had my 338 mag that long, but my brother in law's father always used Remington Core Lokts he said, shooting moose in Canada and elk in Colorado. He never got into reloading back in those days. He said the worked as well as most other bullets, but most that he hunted with just used factory ammo back then.

15 March 2002, 14:35

<JMeier>

I've had good luck with the 225gr Hornadies also, though I only use them for wild hogs and deer. When I carry the 338 after elk I switch to the 225gr Barnes XLC's, which I've had good luck with also.

JMeier

15 March 2002, 15:18

<allen day>

I do consider premium bullets to be a necessity in the .338 Winchester if you're going to stick with one-bullet/one-load for all-around use, including African plainsgame.

While I have a collection of 225 gr. & 250 gr. Hornady's that I've recovered from elk, etc., that are perfectly mushroomed, I've also recovered specimens that came apart and didn't penetrate very well.

I consider the Nosler Partition and the various other premiums to be a better bet in the .338 Winchester if your primary emphasis is true all-around use or for more specialized stuff like elk, moose, and the big bears - the very animals that the .338 Winchester was created to deal with in the first place. These are big, tough (and sometimes dangerous) animals and often expensive to hunt, so why "step-over-a-dollar-to-pick-up-a-dime" and worry about bullet expense when it comes to actual hunting?

Now if you want to come up with a practice load for range use and for deer hunting, that's something else again.......

15 March 2002, 16:09

fredj338

I think it depends alot on where & how you hunt. If I new I would never have to take a shot under 150yds & only on broadside targets, then non-premiums would be fine. I like the bit of an edge the premium gives me for the close, odd angle shot. I know I can count on a premium to give me the penetration I needs for a clean kill. Premiums just aren't that expensive for the amount of shooting most of us do w/ a big game rifle.

15 March 2002, 16:11

Ray, Alaska

I will agree with "allen day" in his view of .338 bullets, but he will have to excuse me because I usually agree with him (just kidding).

Keep in mind that .33 bullets are used with slower .33's such as the .338-06, all the way up to the .338-378. If I was using a fast .338 to hunt bears at the average "bear range," I would select a bullet that would hold together when fired at close range, and still be capable of expanding reliably out to 300+ yards. A FS or Barnes-X bullet has a better chance of holding together at close range, and so a heavy-for-caliber bullet since the extra weight will slow it down.

I also believe that .33 bullets have thicker jackets than smaller caliber bullets, and I wonder if that's why so many elk hunters use 210-grain NOS bullets and such.

My .338 has a fast barrel, so way before I approach the maximum powder charges listed in Hodgdon's #26, a 250-grain NOS bullet is already traveling past 2,717+ fps at the muzzle.

16 March 2002, 15:33

BigNate

I think the premium bullet craze is mostly stirred by bored gun writers! The 250 gr. Sierra GameKing has worked well for me. I don't use the Texas heart shot and don't plan too. Many Elk have been taken with medium size rifles using standard constuction bullets. I don't usually use premiums unless pushing a lighter weight bullet to max velocity. I know many will tout the premium performance and penatration banner but internal damage is what I go by. In some rifles I don't see an advantage.