Griz with BT's??

31 July 2001, 06:53

Kernel

Griz with BT's??

I hope a few of you saw the Grizzly hunt last night on TNN (can't remember which show exactly). They gave a brief description of what the hunter was using to hunt moose or griz. He was using a 300 WUM with Nosler Ballistic Tips. I don't know too much about hunting bears, but this seems like a strange bullet to use. I use and like ballistic tips for deer/antelope/etc., but it seems to me you would want something that wouldn't fall apart too quickly as BTs can do. He did get a bear so I guess it was effective, but I'm curious as to what the collective experience here has to say.

31 July 2001, 07:19

Canuck

I usually miss those shows on TNN, but I did catch that one yesterday. He had a very nice looking custom .300, but I definately wondered about his choice of bullet. On a broadside shot at that range, I don't see why it wouldn't work, but it is an awefully limiting choice to make. As it was he took a poor angle shot, and it looked as though his first shot was a little off. If that bear had made for cover instead of standing to fight (allowing the follow up shot), the results could have been drastically different.

A dead bear is a dead bear, but that bullet would have been at the bottom of my list. I certainly would never recommend it to a client if I were the guide/outfitter in that scenario.

Regards,

Canuck

31 July 2001, 09:19

Stonecreek

I agree that .30 caliber Ballistic Tips are usually a little "soft" for big grizzlies (meaning coastal Brownies and truly large interior griz). However, Ballistic Tips are not nearly so frangible as the early production runs led people to believe.

You might be surprized how deeply the B.T.'s penetrate compared to many other bullets. Their solid base holds the rear half of the bullet together pretty well and I've found penetration in newsprint with BT's to be deeper than corelokt, powerpoint, Sierra, or Speer (with similar weights and calibers).

The .338 200 grain IS built for elk, which is generally larger and tougher than grizzly (note I said generally, meaning the typical 350 lb inland grizzly which is just not as difficult to penetrate as an 800 lb bull elk). I wouldn't hesitate to hunt grizzly with this bullet, but would certainly prefer the Nosler Partition.

31 July 2001, 11:55

<257 AI>

After my experience with BTs last year I wouldn't use them on anything bigger than a coyote! And certainly not on anything that had the potential to rearrainge vital parts of my anatomy. A partition or Fail Safe would be a much better choice, especially if you're using a 300 Mag. But, it's his neck, not mine.

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When in doubt, empty the magazine.

31 July 2001, 14:23

jorge

I was definetly amazed at the poor choice of bullet selection. A run of the mill Core Lockt would have been a better choice. Only a Sierra Gameking would have been worse! I'm also disappointed they did nt show the follow up shot when thebear was standing on his haunches. i don't think the first shot had much effect.

31 July 2001, 14:37

<robbnsc>

I watched that show as well. The first shot did not have any effect on that grizzly. Had that bear not stood up and offered a clear chest shot, it would have been a long day for that hunter and his guide.

I won't even use ballistic tips on mule deer. I would rather use the Nosler Partition, because you never know what kind of angle or shot you are going to get. I know that even a "Texas-heart-shot" will work with a Partition bullet.

31 July 2001, 15:52

<Harald>

I watched that show (Remington Country?) with my brother, who was down from Montana for a few weeks, and we both thought that the first shot hit the bear in the left front leg below the elbow, judging from the way he seemed to be favoring it. I concur with the view that the first shot stung more than it wounded (probably just a grazing flesh wound) and that the bear basically stood up to see what did that. Gravely wounded grizzlies do not stand up out of curiosity, they run. That .308-180 gr BT is much less stoutly constructed than a .338-200 gr BT and Steve and I were aghast at the fact that he was willing to attempt the shot (more so given the distance, the brush and the fact that he apparently missed so badly).

31 July 2001, 23:43

JudgeG

In many circles, Bob Foulkrod is known to be a "hunter" who doesn't always use the best judgment (or ethics). It doesn't surprise me that he used an inappropriate bullet on a bear. Why his sponsors still support him, I'll never know. I make it a point not to buy what he advertises.

[This message has been edited by judgeg (edited 07-31-2001).]

01 August 2001, 08:55

Gatehouse

I didn't see it, but I'm with you guys- No BT's for me when I'm chasing bears- especially a grizzly!

I will say that a guy in my club who puts down game with great regularity has used BT's in his .300 WM on moose several times sucessfully.

A couple of years ago he got a LEH grizzly tag, and I saw him sighting in at the range. He had 200 gr X bullets, a far more appropriate choice for bear, in my opinion.

It must have been nice to see a bear hunt on TV for a change. So often it's just some guy sitting in a tree or a blind until "A MONSTER WHITETAIL" appears. Sometimes it bugs me a bit when they get to the dead deer, grab it's antlers and immediately start to "score" it. I like big antlers too, but it's not the only reason I hunt.

01 August 2001, 09:39

<280rem>

I caught the tail-end of the program and saw the equipment list. I always thought BT's should be used on lighter non-dangerous game. I was more than just a little suprised with the bullet selection. I wonder what the good folks at Nosler would really think? Hmmmm... John

01 August 2001, 13:31

Paul H

After watching a few televised "Bubba goes hunting" shows last week on a business trip, I'm not suprised in the least. I actually enjoyed a bow hunt for moose I saw on one of those shows, but the other ones were a joke at best. Glad to see we haven't missed anything by putting the boob tube in the closet a few years ago.

02 August 2001, 02:16

denton

Jorge---(or anyone else)

Why the negative comment on the Sierra Gameking? Have you gotten poor results with them? Tell us more.

02 August 2001, 02:40

Rob1SG

I used them once but never again on anything larger that a coyote. The penetration is just not there. I will say the same for the Nosler BT. The BT's are very accurate and I do well on coyotes with them but have used them on deer in my 6mm Rem 95gr and my 7mm RM 150gr.Niether gave be the penetration I needed and ruined to much meat. I'll stick to the better constructed bullets fom now on.I may try the 338 BT in my 338-06 on deer this year as they are supposed to be of heavier build.

02 August 2001, 04:27

Stonecreek

Rob1SG:

Are you saying that the 7mm 150 Nosler Ballistic Tip failed to fully penetrate the vitals on a whitetail? Or are you saying that it failed to penetrate an off- shoulder or ham after going through the vitals? I would be interested. Was this with current production or some of the early runs?

Thanks.

02 August 2001, 05:47

Rob1SG

I shot a whitetail doe last year with two of the 7mm 150 BT that were loaded just before the hunt. Both failed to completely penetrate. The first was to far back just behind the liver. The next was at the top of the heart both were quartering shot from 30 yds.I think they maybe good at ranges over 100 yds but up close forget it. The same thing happened with my 6mm Rem and the 95gr BT range 40yds only this time it blew up on the front shoulder, this was maybe 6 or 7 yrs ago.

02 August 2001, 12:28

Canuck

quote:
Originally posted by judgeg:
In many circles, Bob Foulkrod is known to be a "hunter" who doesn't always use the best judgment (or ethics[This message has been edited by judgeg (edited 07-31-2001).]

I don't know anything about his reputation, but I did catch a show last year (also an episode of Bass Pro Shop's Outdoor World), where I think the same guy shot at a desert bighorn with his compound bow at over 60 yards. Anybody know for sure if it was the same guy? I nearly bust a gut laughing, it was so ludicrous. He hit the ram in the horn with his first shot, and his arrow stuck. Then it hung around while he readjusted his position, in plain view of the sheep, before he finally finished it. One of those things you wouldn't want the anti's to see, that's for sure.

Canuck

03 August 2001, 08:58

<Mr.Bigbore>

I didn't see the show in question but I have seen first hand what a 200 gr. 338 BT did to a mountain grizzly when an unsuccessful Sheep hunter in the Wrangels tried from a range of 160 yards. THE RESULTS WERE LESS THAN MISERABLE!!!!! The 2 shots they got off were perfectly placed and only made it 2" into the flesh after going through what I consider to be a very tough hide and 3 1/2" of dense fat. I ended up putting 1 250gr. Partition through his shoulders which slowed it down long enough for me to put in 2 more to finish the job. Since this is the toughest BT made I really doubt that a 30 cal. BT would be anywhere close to a sane choice.

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Protect our heritage, take a kid hunting!

"De Oppresso Liber"

[This message has been edited by Mr.Bigbore (edited 08-03-2001).]

03 August 2001, 17:11

denton

Looking for clarification--

I'm understanding most of you to use "BT" to designate Ballistic Tip bullets, which have very pointed plastic tips, and a reputation for opening much too quickly to get good penetration. So that matches with the comments on poor penetration.

I'm curious about the comment made earlier about Sierra GameKings, which are a different BT, "boat tail". Someone made a negative comment about GameKings, and there is usually a reason for a comment like that. If you've had good or bad experiences with these, I'd like to hear more.

03 August 2001, 18:36

Mark

I don't have any experience with the Gamekings, but for several years my hunting load in 30'06 was 200 gr. Sierra Matchkings. I used them mainly because they were the most accurate bullet I could find, and they killed well too. Never had one go far after getting hit. Most just dropped in their tracks, and the few that ran never ran far, they might make it out of the clearing but never had to actually track any of them. Also, once we were shooting at a milk jug from about 600 yards, never hit it but found the bullets were all hitting about 2 1/2 feet low, but they were all in a 5 inch circle and most had penetrated all the way through the 6 inch post.

06 August 2001, 16:05

<Alaskan>

No Bullistic Tips for big bears, bad idea. I used the 230 gr. Fail Safes. Very impressive bullet. I am a big fan of the Bullistic Tip but not for that one.

07 August 2001, 06:34

GeorgeS

He probably used Ballistic Tips for two reasons: 1) Nosler may have been a sponsor; and, 2) they may have given him the best groups in that rifle.

Lots of people make that mistake every year.

George

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Shoot straight, shoot often, but by all means, use enough gun!

07 August 2001, 14:57

Rob

I shot a nice 6 foot black bear with a 165 NBT from my Contender in .309 JDJ. This has a muzzle velocity of about 2250 fps. Dumped him. But the shot was right under his chin as he faced me at about 25 feet. Only found about 20 grains of lead from the cup of the bullet's base. Part of it exited his side after about 16-18 inches of penetration.

The NBT is a big varmit bullet, and at low velocities I don't have to worry about not getting upset.

I'll guarantee I wouldn't try a brown bear with it.