the kid wants a rifle

08 November 2003, 13:21

jim81147

From end of september to end of november our little town gets invaded by the pumpkin people. This gets my boy ( 19 yrs.old) all fired up to buy "his own" rifle. He will use it for hunting mostly , most likely deer and elk . I dont see him hunting moose or bear. Since all my hunting is concentrated on black cirles on paper , I dont really know what caliber to recommend for him . He can shoot , but is not super experienced . I had thought about a .270 or 30-06 or .308 for his first rifle . What do you guys that actually use them think? Any comments would be appreciated.

[ 11-08-2003, 05:23: Message edited by: jim81147 ]

08 November 2003, 13:29

stubblejumper

My own favorite for a deer and elk rifle for a new hunter is the 7mmremmag.It shoots flat,has plenty of energy and the recoil is quite manageable.

08 November 2003, 13:35

gsp

I would go with the 30.06, I have owned both and still own 2 30.06's

08 November 2003, 13:36

p dog shooter

I would go with a 30-06 like you said. Nice standard caliber lots of them around ammo is cheaper then the mags. Hs plenty of power to kill any thing he well want to hunt inclueding moose and bears. When he gets to wanting more he can move up and down the scale as he likes. Can hardly go wrong with a 06.

08 November 2003, 15:03

Bret

I have to agree with p.dog & gsp, my 14 year old wanted a 30-06 for his first rifle, we loaded up some reduced 110 gn loads to break him in on it.

08 November 2003, 15:57

john17

Recoil from all of those rounds would be manageable for 19 year old. I shoot the .308 winchester and is a perfect round for deer, light kicking and powerful. On the other hand the 30-06 would be better suited for larger game. You can load both with the .30 cal. 168 gr. Barnes XLC bullet. Which has a S.D. of .253, and B.C. of .476. These spec. make it an incredible bullet. All the calibers you mentioned are easy to find ammunition for. the 30-06 has about a 150 fps advantage over the .308, but you can have the .308 in a quick short action rifle. Which ever choice you and your son make would not be a poor one. Good luck.

-John

08 November 2003, 16:44

smallfry

*If* it was a toss-up with the 3006,308, and 270... Id take the 270. It makes for a great off season preditor gun and would be fine all the way upto moose. Are you guys handloaders?

08 November 2003, 17:00

Bwana-be

If he's like most American males, he won't be happy with the '06 after a year.
Get him a 7mm Remington, make sure he's comfy with it before hunting season next year, and he'll have a ball.
Then he can get a smaller caliber later for deer and down, and a bigger one for elk and up, and go nutz.
Then, thiry years from now, he can get the '06 and get rid of the rest.
The '06 as a first gun is a curse. It makes it very difficult to get a second gun! Don't do that to your boy.

08 November 2003, 18:10

Anvil63

quote:
Originally posted by Bwana-be:
...The '06 as a first gun is a curse. It makes it very difficult to get a second gun! Don't do that to your boy.

The '06 is a great round and was the first rifle that I ever bought when I turned 21 about 2 years ago (come from a non-shooting anti-gun family and somehow got the gun gene in a bad way and have since converted my entire family except my mother). Well, since then I have thought about buying a new rifle almost everyday, but because the '06 is so damn versatile between it, my .22, and my 12 ga. I haven't been able to justify the cost (poor student).

It sucks,
Carl

[ 11-08-2003, 09:11: Message edited by: Anvil63 ]

08 November 2003, 18:34

Ray, Alaska

I got a .30-06 for my 19-year son, but he enjoys shooting my .338WM. The more I think about it, the more I feel I should have bought a Weatherby Ultralightweight .338-06 A-Square for him.

08 November 2003, 19:02

Dave In LB

Though much older when I bought my first rifle, I would recommendt the .308 . Nearly ballisticlly identical to the 3006 out to 250 yds and you don't have to worry about the "3006 curse" [Big Grin]

(I like that one) He can then go out and get a big boomer or super rocket racer later. recoil not too bad and plenty of power for most of NA hunting. Lots of gret guns to choose from too and if you don't reload, plenty of ammo availability.

If I was only going to buy one gun though I'd get a .300WSM.

08 November 2003, 19:28

loud-n-boomer

Having grown up in Colorado hunting elk and deer, I would recommend a .30-06. For elk it handles heavy bullets better than the .308, and for deer or antelope, looses very little if anything from a practical basis over the .270. Reality being what it is, I would challenge anyone to present me with a logic based argument for a cartridge that is a better combination of accuracy, shootability, availability of different rifles and ammunition, and versatility for hunting in North America.

08 November 2003, 20:16

Nebraska

The 270 or 30-06 would be a toss-up for me. Glad to see you're going to get him a rifle. Don't forget...."Teach your kids to hunt and you won't have to hunt for your kids!".

BTW.....Way to go Carl!!! [Big Grin]

08 November 2003, 20:31

<Reloader66>

Hard to beat the 30-06 shooting the 150 grain bullet to harvest any deer sized game animal. My first deer hunting rifle purchased used in 1968, a Winchester model 70, is chambered for the all time great 30-06 cartridge. I still own and use that rifle today, and it has accounted for to many to count fine whitetailed bucks. In my view the .308 diameter bullet is the quinticential big game getting bullet and has no equal.

The 308, the shorter version and parent case, the 30-06 is also very verstile and gives up nothing to the 30-06 out to 300 yards. If you intend to hunt deer sized game and limit you shots to 300 yards or less, the 308 is the ticket. The 308 will harvest the largest Elk you may encounter with the 165 grain pill.

The 30-06 will take over when the bullet weights are 180 grains and heavier. The 308 case just does not have the powder capacity to drive those heavy bullets at velocities needed for best results at extended ranges. The 30-06 and 308 factory ammo is in all sporting goods stores, with many bullet weight selections to choose from. Even in remote area's you can find 30-06 and 308 ammo should you need an extra box.

I would rate the 270 or 280 cartridge as the third and fourth choice for the new hunters first rifle. The 7mm-08 and 7-57 cartridges are also good chioces for a first big game hunting cartridge. The main problem would be avalability of ammo in certain locations. Just about every sporting goods store on the planet carry 30-06 and 308 factory ammo. In some very small out of the way places, that may be the only factory ammo they stock.

09 November 2003, 09:23

Mike in SC

Just a note about availability of ammo, I have seen lots of different brands and bullet weights in the 30-06 but very little in the .308 by comparison, at least here in SC at the X-marts and big sporting goods stores. I think my son will get a .30-06 for his first rifle.

09 November 2003, 09:42

Mashminster

308 was my first at age 17 it served well under all the conditions I put it through and will always be my favorite cartridge. 30-06 would be nearly the same prices may change. 270 would stop you short of power to hunt elk at longer ranges but its 130gr's are some deadly accurate rounds.

As for the rifle..Savage. Who knows it might be a phase that he will go through for whatever reason and not want to shoot anymore then you wouldnt have to kick yourself for spending alot.

-Mash

09 November 2003, 05:34

E O

A M70 syn stainless .30'06 will suffice until his great grandkids get tired of it.

ED

09 November 2003, 09:46

jim81147

Thanks for the feed back guys!!! No matter how I look at it , it means I am going to have to buy another set of dies

Maybe I should decide what I want instead of what may be best for him [Big Grin]

Good thing about it , I have seen many reduced load recipes on this site for 30 caliber rounds. That would allow him to practice more without building in a permanent flinch.

09 November 2003, 11:11

Dutch

I think a 308 is the absolutely best first big game cartridge out there.

I believe so strongly in this that I bought my kid a 270 two weeks ago..... In other words, find the rifle you like, and teach him to shoot. The rest of it is just gun powder and bullets. JMO, Dutch.

09 November 2003, 11:26

If it's his first rifle I would choose a cz in 550 in 6.5x55 low recoil and it kills and penetrates beyond it's paer ballistics. Put a leupold 2-7x32 on it an you will have a good allround outfit.

09 November 2003, 11:36

4bambam

30-06 best of other you listed with more options all the way around, if you do not want to try a 7mm mag. [Wink]

09 November 2003, 15:36

cummins cowboy

I would just go buy him a 308. all this crap about magnums is just that crap, I prefer a gun that i am confindent and most of all can shoot well. so as for me I shoot a .270 and an mostly interested in smaller varmit calibres, i don't like recoil. I think the the 308 can do anything you need it to do, or if you wanna be a little different get a 7mm-08. I would find a used 788 or a new savage, heck if you get the savage and he gets tired of the 308 he can always switch the barrels out easily. I really like my 270 and it was my first CF but if I had to do it all over again I might just get a 7mm-08 or a 7x57 instead be a little different and still have a short action. A funny story the other day I was at wal-mart and some red neck yeah hoo was trying to return some ammo, the clerk didn't wanna do it cause he didn't have a recipt, well duuu. anyways I listened to what he was saying that these shells wouldn't fit in his gun and all, I looked at the box and they where 300 weatherbys that he was wanting to return, stupid idiot didn't know the difference between 300 mags and 300 weatherbys, thought these weatherbys where the extra power ones. LOL people like these don't need to be even shooting magnums

09 November 2003, 16:11

stubblejumper

The term 300mag means nothing other than it is one of several .308" caliber magnums.It could be 308 norma mag,300wsm,300h&h mag,300ultramag,300winmag,300shortultramag, 300wbymag etc.If you go to a store and ask for 300mag ammo you aren't overly smart yourself and deserve whatever you get.

09 November 2003, 16:19

beemanbeme

Too bad the "redneck" (what part of the south was he from?) didn't ride several hours to get to camp before he discovered his error. 'course he'll blame it on the dumb jerks at Wallys.

09 November 2003, 16:41

fredj338

I'm not a .30-06 fan, but that's what I bought my son for his 1st big game rifle (Ruger M77MKII laminate). He's set for anything on this continent & most of the world if he chooses to continue hunting. Of course he can alwyas rebarrel to a proper caliber like .338-06! [Big Grin]

09 November 2003, 18:30

BigNate

My first was a .30-30, I longed for bigger, faster, more power. Dad got me a used '06, still wasn't happy! I have to admit I wanted a 300 Win Mag. Everything else wasn't what I wanted.

Has your son said anything about his preference?

We all can tell you what we'd do. My opinion is if he's got some experience then the bigger rounds are tough to beat. I'm not the least bit impressed with a .270 for Elk. I'd probably stear you toward a 300 WSM for all around use though. I haven't used my '06 since I shot a deer with it. Yes it worked, It wasn't what I wanted! I still don't have a 300 Mag anything, but do use a 7mm Rem Mag a lot. I use a 338 Win Mag for elk. I have more rifles than I can use in a year of hunting but still see a couple I NEED!

I think most here are partial to one round, one brand, one type, ect. But who here is satisfied with one do everything Rifle?

None of these recommendations are bad, I would however, caution you that the lightweights and carbines are much harder to shoot well in the field. A standard weight rifle would recoil less and he will be steadier. A poorly hit animal by a beginner is very discouraging.

P.S. I can't stand the .308, no reason really and I even have one! Gun people are just a little fickle I suppose! BigNate

10 November 2003, 14:12

AggieDog

I'm one of those 7mm Rem mag fans. Started out with an 06 like many, migrated to 270 and later the 7mm Rem mag. From a recoil perspective they are almost identical for all practical purposes, yet reloaders can really zip up the performance of the 7 mag. But there certainly isnt anything wrong with a 30-06. I still would also consider the 270 WSM, or a 280 Rem. I tend to be one who favors velocity over bullet size. Age old argument, but I like a fast, flat shooting cartridge that can reach out. Pay attention to the weight of the rifle, as lighter rifles pack easier, but kick considerably more. My brother in law has a Savage Hunter series, left handed 30-06 he just recently purchased, and it kicks alot harder than my Model 700 7mm Rem mag. Just some food for thought. Nothing wrong with a lighter rifle, just as long as you understand, it will kick alot more. I consider the 7 rem mag a great all around cartridge, especially if you hunt wide open spaces, like the western US.

10 November 2003, 14:50

WPN

A .308 Steyr Scout would be nice.

10 November 2003, 15:01

George Semel

Well I have go with the .30-06. I would also suggest that since you reload, a 7 x 57 would make a good first rifle as well. I would keep the whole thing simple. A good fixed power scope in 4 or 6 in good rock solid mounts. The main thing is being able to shoot well with it. Getting a rifle now, give your son plenty of time to work out some of the little things that are common to new rifles these days. Buy next fall, he could have an elk hanging in your garage.

10 November 2003, 19:17

WyoJoe

quote:
Originally posted by jim81147:
From end of september to end of november our little town gets invaded by the pumpkin people. This gets my boy ( 19 yrs.old) all fired up to buy "his own" rifle. He will use it for hunting mostly , most likely deer and elk . I dont see him hunting moose or bear. Since all my hunting is concentrated on black cirles on paper , I dont really know what caliber to recommend for him . He can shoot , but is not super experienced . I had thought about a .270 or 30-06 or .308 for his first rifle . What do you guys that actually use them think? Any comments would be appreciated.

First I would have to ask what his recoil tolerance is. If he is recoil shy it might be best to go to the .270 (it is a sweet shooting round). If not you cannot go wrong with the .30-06

[ 11-10-2003, 10:18: Message edited by: WyoJoe ]

11 November 2003, 00:42

Major Caliber

.270

14 November 2003, 00:09

<Elias>

I am just training my older son (11yrs)to shoot with .22Lr (Cz452).The tecniques,safety issues and so on.He is big in size and wery keen in shooting,I let him shoot as long I can see that the tec is under control,and he hit the target with accurasy.Then I give my 3006 to him,he have shot with 12gauge shotgun,just to get the image of recoil.Next step is then 3006 without scope,because Im afraid that he hurts hes eyecorner with cause of the recoil.After he manages the recoil,then with scope.

There is so much to learn to a kid of shooting,but I really like to train him,and see hes face after succeded shooting [Smile]

Elias

14 November 2003, 06:51

jpothof

These are all great suggestions, but at 19 years old, he isn't going to want his dad to pick out his rifle for him. My dad had to compromise with me at age 14. Back then I didn't want no sissy round like a .243, the minimum I was content with was a .30-06, which is what I got by the way. Not that the .243 wouldn't have worked (I conceded this only as I got older), its just young guys tend to get fascinated with a caliber for one reason or another. Its all part of the experience. If he has shooting experience and is built like most 19 year-old guys he should have no problem with any of the 7mm, .300, or .338 magnums/non magnums. What has he said he wants??

Jeff

Jeff