The Accurate Reloading Forums
Black Bear, how big is this?
19 July 2009, 02:45
FlippyBlack Bear, how big is this?
Found this track last year while scounting early in the season.
Took the picture on my phone, I believe this is the largest full bear print I have seen (been in the woods 40+ years).
I showed this to a friend of mine last week and he said it is this largest he has seen in this area, and he has hunted this same area for 20 years. He said his guesstimate is 350-400lbs.
He uses a formula like this: if the width is at least half the length, then he uses 100 lbs per inch in width.
If it is not at least 2:1, he subtracts the percentage it is not. 2:1 being 100%, 1.9:1 being 95%, etc.
He said of the bears they have killed and measured (6 or so) it has been very close to the weight.
He agreed with me that 6 was not a very large statistical set, but it was good for a guesstimate and proved pretty accurate weighing them after shooting them.
The boot is a size 12 and is 4.70" across at the sole. As best I can comparatively "guess" the print is just under 4" (about 3.8") at the widest part.
Having nothing to measure with (fixed that now, stainless 6" ruler from Harbor Freight, $2.00) it was the best I could do at the time. I could have used a cartridge, but hindsight...
How big do you guys think this bear is?
Going to set up game cams in the area to try and get a picture of it.
JUST A TYPICAL WHITE GUY BITTERLY CLINGING TO GUNS AND RELIGIONDefinition of HOPLOPHOBIA "I'm the guy that originally wrote the 'assault weapons' ban." --- Former Vice President Joe Biden 19 July 2009, 04:54
Mike_Dettorre372 lbs
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.
What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
19 July 2009, 06:23
buckeyeshooterMy guess is a 5 1/2 foot nose to tail bear, weighing 200 to 225 spring weight. My 6' 10" bear rug has a front paw right at 7 inches from claw to claw. That bear weighed 453 (fall weight) field dressed on check in. The two I shot last month in Idaho were about the size of the print you posted.
19 July 2009, 22:49
Flippyquote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
372 lbs
3.
8" not 3.72", remember?
So it would have to be 380, right?
That's why I am asking because I really have no experience hunting black bear.
This is what I was looking for:
quote:
Originally posted by buckeyeshooter:
My guess is a 5 1/2 foot nose to tail bear, weighing 200 to 225 spring weight. My 6' 10" bear rug has a front paw right at 7 inches from claw to claw. That bear weighed 453 (fall weight) field dressed on check in. The two I shot last month in Idaho were about the size of the print you posted.
Thanks!
Mike, I did like the 372 answer. Funny stuff!
And your list of things you learned on AR, right on the money!
20 July 2009, 00:44
oakmanYou measure the front foot only. Measure across the pad and if its under 7, add a inch and if its over 7 subtract a inch. Example would be a 5 inch track would = out to a 6 ft. bear or a 9 ft track would= out to a 8 ft. bear.Must be a true track-not in mud, etc.. Back foot tracks tell you nothing. Have fun
www.african-montana-taxidermy.com20 July 2009, 01:52
Mike_DettorreI try to add a little humor now and then...the only thing I know about bear tracks is that they come from bears...
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
21 July 2009, 03:24
ravenroakman
why would the formula change above 7"?
i know alaskan hunters and guides that use the same width +1xfeet=sq'd bears
21 July 2009, 04:38
gbangerMike_Dettorre, I like your style.
Gpopper
21 July 2009, 07:34
Flippyquote:
Originally posted by oakman:
You measure the front foot only. Measure across the pad and if its under 7, add a inch and if its over 7 subtract a inch. Example would be a 5 inch track would = out to a 6 ft. bear or a 9 ft track would= out to a 8 ft. bear.Must be a true track-not in mud, etc.. Back foot tracks tell you nothing. Have fun
www.african-montana-taxidermy.com
So only use the front foot?
I would have thought the rear foot would be proportionate to the size of the bear in some way.
That's why I asked!
Thanks.
---Mike
21 July 2009, 08:24
nobody2Obviously, a large size bruin. BUT....you can't always tell the exact size by the track. Bear's feet vary....A LOT.
21 July 2009, 08:50
buckeyeshooterfront feet is the one to use for estimation. I have always heard front pad width +1 = squared size. But in my experience, it just gives a ballpark measure. I'm thinking there are 5' 10 guys wearing size 15 shoes somewhere too---- so foot size does not always equal height in humans either. If you game cam the bear please let us know-- I'm thinking 5 1/2 feet nose to tail will be very close.
05 August 2009, 23:59
FlippyGame cam has been up for almost a week now. Going to check it today.
Set up on a large "skid" road less than 50 yards from where the print was found with game trails and flattened grass surrounding the area.
Lots of black and salmon berries coming on and there is far too much activity for just one bear.
Looking forward to seeing the culprit(s).
---Mike
06 August 2009, 03:48
buckeyeshooterPlease post the photos if he poses for you!
06 August 2009, 03:57
FlippyWas already planning on it.
I can't wait, either.
06 August 2009, 04:34
p dog shooterAs much as he weighs after you shoot them. Feet can give a good idea big foot could be big bear. Big foot could also mean a big footed bear
06 August 2009, 06:15
Flippyquote:
Originally posted by p dog shooter:
As much as he weighs after you shoot them. Feet can give a good idea big foot could be big bear. Big foot could also mean a big footed bear
I realize that there is no way to know until the bear is down exactly how big he is.
Scat and tracks give a relative size "guesstimate" I was just looking for more informed opinions.
Ultimately it is what the bear weighs after the deed is done not the size of the sign.
Season opened 4 days ago.
06 August 2009, 17:41
69deerThats a rear pad, so there is no telling how big he is. Front pads are much easier to guesstamate.
08 August 2009, 01:01
FlippyThe only picture with anything on it (yet) is this one.
There was quite a wind/thunder storm up there two days ago and the wind was blowing so hard the limbs on the tree where the camera is mounted triggered the camera several times.
The pictures
on both sides of AFTER this one showed nothing except the trail and the log and there was nothing on the tree to cause this. A squirrel or something maybe?
There was a lot of new dirt torn up around the vicinity but it rained yesterday and last night so it was impossible to tell exactly what was out and about.
I did some trimming around the camera area, hopefully things will look better next week.
Also I took the camera off "security" mode and put it on auto so it will flash if needed.
I kind of wanted to see what was lurking about in the daytime first, besides me...
08 August 2009, 08:04
FlippyOk. I went back and looked at the time stamps on the pictures.
This picture really is making me wonder.
This is the FIRST picture of a 3-shot burst. I forgot the camera was set on three shots.
The other two pictures have nothing of merit on them.
The tree I put the camera on I chose purposely because it was one of the smallest on this side of the skid road (about 12" diam.) figuring it would be exempt from any climbing activities.
I did not notice any marks on the tree, but I wasn't really looking too closely. I will check next week to see if there is any marks from climbing.
This has me wondering...
Cub?
Squirrel?
10 August 2009, 05:27
GatehouseThat is not the track of a monster bear...I'd say you are looking at a 5 ft or less bear.
375 Ruger- The NEW KING of the .375's!!
10 August 2009, 10:04
Big Bore Boar HunterBear feet are like peoples feet, they can vary disproportionately to body size. The best way to determine weight is to judge the depth of the print versus size, this is more of an art than a science, and varies by locale. If this was trinity, my guess would be 250 lb bear.
John
I am certainly no bear expert,but that track looks to me as rather small.I grew up in northern Minnesota and have seen a number of bears and noted sign quite a few times.
But then again its hard to tell from a picture.
My guess,would be under 200lbs,maybe even close to 100lbs.
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maybe its bigfoot.or average size foot,in this case
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12 August 2009, 05:49
JBoutfishnIf the boot in the pic is of average size, the bear weighs 299 lbs. If that boot were my size 15 the weight would be pushing 500lbs.
Jim "Bwana Umfundi"
NRA
12 August 2009, 10:30
BrettAKSCIFor brownies or blackies take the width of the front paw in inches and add one for an approximation of the square of the hide. So a 5 inch across front black bear pad is 5+1=6 foot bear. A brown bear with a 9 inch across front pad is 9+1=10 foot bear.
Brett
DRSS
Life Member SCI
Life Member NRA
Life Member WSF
Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter
May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick.
And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too.
May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep.
May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip.
-Seth Peterson
14 August 2009, 03:56
Gerrypeters375For what it's worth - I hunted black bear in north central Ontario (Nipissing District) for years. I only very rarely saw the full track of a black during hunting season (I was in dry woods) but I did, occasionally in off season when visiting Algonquin Park, come to recognize the splay foot spread -that's why I definitely agree with "jb" - It's a small bear. I'm going by the spread of the claws and the narrowness of what I see of the paw. ( Anyway, whatever-I always was impressed by seeing a bear paw print in the bush -of whatever size- and as far as I'm concerned, it's a bear -and seeing it in the bush is always a thrill that the bunnyhuggers never will know.
14 August 2009, 18:45
Grizzly Adamsquote:
Originally posted by nobody2:
Obviously, a large size bruin. BUT....you can't always tell the exact size by the track. Bear's feet vary....A LOT.
Hard to believe, but my Grizz has the smallest feet of any I have ever seen. He's a nine year old, 6' mountain bear, but by the size of his feet, you'd swear he's a long yearling
Grizz
Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal. John E Pfeiffer, The Emergence of Man
Those who can't skin, can hold a leg. Abraham Lincoln
Only one war at a time. Abe Again.
I saw a show today where they were live trapping bears to relocate them.They caught a larger than expected bear,and after sedating it ,they took the vital measurements ,etc.They noted they had a weight of around 400 lbs,and a front paw pad width of 5 1/2 inches.
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