I used to convert my Mausers so that you could drop a round into the barrel, its an easy fix....but serve no purpose but to get you in trouble, thats where jams come from, even in pushfeeds.

But after a lot of hunting trips under my belt for dangerous game I figured out that the Mauser brothers were smarter than I was...

Have you ever tried to drop a round in a chamber while running and trying to keep the gun level or pointed up over the bush, I guess you havn't...It is 10 times more expedient and 2 time faster to push it in the magazine, hell you gotta close the bolt anyway....

So take that old gun writters overly expedited rumor and trash it as it is nothing more than the overactive imagination of an idiot that believed it to be fact, much that is printed by so called "experienced gun scribes" over the years is theory, nothing more and without basis....

You cannot fault a Mauser, its the easiest gun to defend in the world, any real gunsmith will tell you that.

Jack Belk asked me the other day why the Mauser had a very small hump behind that split lug, I didn't know...It is so if oil or caked dirt get caked hard in there the hump will force the spring loose. now how about that for a well thought out design...It cannot be improved, end of story.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

I believe in Jim Carmichael's Book Of The Rifle, he mentioned a test where a machined piece of steel was used to pit the remington extractor against a claw extractor, both pulling in opposite directions. The steel eventually began to stretch before the claw extractor gave in first, so the Remington proved to be plenty strong. On the other hand, brass is softer than steel, and it is more likely that the smaller Remington extractor would tear the brass than the larger CRF extractors if a case was wedged. In any case, I happily own and shoot both types and haven't had a problem with either, so I can't really form an opinion one way or the other.

Regards,

Lou

George

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Shoot straight, shoot often, but by all means, use enough gun!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gary Rihn:
Allen-

You've owned 88 Remingtons, only to say that Winchesters are "far superior"? Are you a slow learner , or is it maybe that those Remingtons have served you well?

---

Gary, it becomes quite evident that you have no idea who you are talking to when you post to Allen! Allen, for your information, has taken more African game in the last 10 years than most people have "SEEN" whitetail deer,in whitetail hunting magazines, and he would not tell you this, but he is one of the most knowledgable people around on quality rifles for all purposes! I think it would be more profitable to listen to folks like Allen, than to wise off at them, considering that your opinion is comming from someone who considers a mod 700 to be quality items!

The only exception Allen took to what you posted was saying that Mod 70s are junk, which is absolutely not the case. His origenal post was only offering you the benifite of years of experience, nothing more. Considering just the mod 700s, and mod 70s he has owned is probably two or three times the amount of rifles, of all kinds, that most people own in a life time. Additionally Allen can own any type of rifle he wants, so why not have the best. I would think that fact alone would tend to make his opinion pritty credable. BUTTTT! It is almost imposible to confuse some folks with facts, when thier minds are made up! I believe this is the case here! But then, I'm not convenced that "I'M" always right, that must be a good feeling, Tell us,is it?

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..Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY DESIGNS
Collector/trader of fine double rifles, and African wildlife art

Go back & READ before you come out swinging!

Show me where I said M70's are junk. I just can't seem to find that post....

Did you happen to notice TWO 's in my post?

Or are you just an intolerant cuss who can't stand anyone who contradicts your obviously far superior intellect?

If M70's (or M700's, or any other rifle for that matter), were so GD superior, no other rifle would exist.

Go shoot your M70, I'll suffer through life with my lowly M700's, thank you very much!!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gary Rihn:
Mac-
#1
Go back & READ before you come out swinging!
Or are you just an intolerant cuss who can't stand anyone who contradicts your obviously far superior intellect?

#2
If M70's (or M700's, or any other rifle for that matter), were so GD superior, no other rifle would exist.

#3
Go shoot your M70, I'll suffer through life with my lowly M700's, thank you very much!!

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Gary, #1 I don't claim to have an out of sight intellect, and you weren't disagreeing with anyone, you were asking a person who probably has more knowegdge about rifles of all kinds, if he is a slow learner. It is my opinion, that anyone who thinks he knows enough to tell Allen he is a slow learner, is a little more than "taken with his own intellect"!

#2 If your analogy were valid then there would only be one car, or plane, or flaver, and a YUGO, would be just as good as a rolls. The fact is a diamond is better than glass, not just because itis prittier, but because it is a better material. CRF is not the only system, but the fact is it is a better system than the PF, simply because it works better under more conditions, and is only a very cheap insurance policy, against the malfunctions that the other systems are prone to. Make no mistake, some systems will work SOME of the time, some systems will work MOST of the time, but no system will work ALL the time. Nobody here has said that CRF works all the time, under all conditions, but the CRF will work more often, under more conditions than PF, and it cost no more, so why not have it!

#3 Gary, I own several Mod 700s, but they are all in varment, and deer rifles,the largest thing being a little 7mm Rem mag. where a jam makes no more difference other than a missed shot at a goaty old deer. I do not even own a Mod 70 at present, but have owned many before 1964, when Winchester did like all the others, and went to PF to save money. I do, however own 46 rifles built onMauser actions, both militery, and commercial,and they all can be single loaded. The difference is Rimington, Savage(till they came out with their DGR with CRF), Sako, Weatherby,and Browning, decided rather than to go back to a better system, they would stay with a mass produced PF rifle that could be made by robots,but would be sold at the same price, and to convence their costomers that they weren't Pissing down their backs, but that it was just raining!

The 700s that I own were inherited from my father, who never hunted anything more dangerous than a Muledeer. That is the only reason I own them at all! The only rifle my father owned that I have taken to Africa is an commercial FN mauser, chambered for 30-06 and it was his favorite as well. As I said I don't pretend to know everything, but I have been around for some time,being 64 years old,hunting on my own, with my own rifle, since the age of six, and to have hunted on three continents, and have some background with rifles, on very dangerous game, as well as jackrabbits, and though that doesn't qualify me to tell you what to use, I think some young folks who have not been there, and done that, can benefit from that experience. Maybe not, others seldom see us as we see ourselves, a lesson many could take.

What I took exception to, in your post, was your very disrespectfull attitude, not your choice of rifle feeding systems. I thought it was uncalled for, and still do. I understand it is easier to call names than to discuss a subject where you have no ammunition to shoot, but calling names, and being disrespectful, will not change the mechanics of the system, it only serves to make the caller look bad!

I was not just talking to you, but I admit you are the one who got me to post. I'm sorry if what Isay is not to your likeing, but that is the hair that grows on the bear!

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..Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY DESIGNS
Collector/trader of fine double rifles, and African wildlife art

[This message has been edited by MacD37 (edited 08-31-2001).]

quote:

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Originally posted by Atkinson:

Have you ever tried to drop a round in a chamber while running and trying to keep the gun level or pointed up over the bush, I guess you havn't...It is 10 times more expedient and 2 time faster to push it in the magazine, hell you gotta close the bolt anyway....

---

I think this says it all. We push-feed users must know how to shoot and handle a rifle in that we've never had to run and load at the same time while hunting.

Everyone else, please use a CRF rifle until you learn also.

Does this mean that clients with a pushfeed rifle are less likely to kill the animal with one shot, or that for some reason a pushfeed rifle, because of it's design, is less likely to kill the animal with one shot than a crf of the same caliber?

I may be set in my ways, I have no doubt of that, and I intend to stay that way, because of what I personally have seen, not read in some gun rag or got first hand from someone who claims expertise..Now that makes perfect since to me and its my a$$ on the line..I learned this from my own mistakes and the mistakes of others....

I really don't care what anyone else uses, its a matter of choices....Some knuckleheads just have to learn the hardway, but so did I....

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

I think there are many things that are more important than whether the rifle you take afield is a PF or a CF. For starters, that you know how to shoot the darn thing from something other than sandbags. Plus "fit" is a more important factor. And that it's properly sighted in (wonder how many rifles go on $20,000 African trips "bore-sighted" only?). Or that it's been properly "functioned tested" and all the screws have been checked to ensure they are snug. The field is a bad place to discover the particular rifle you are using has a problem with some feature.

I will show my colors...in the "Less Filling-Taste Great" debate, I usually side with the CF side. But, I have both types, because if a rifle functions and shoots accurately, then it's a keeper and I don't worry about it. Take it hunting and worry about something important, like trophy selection and shot placement! -MN

P.S. But aren't these debates and exchanges fun! Great way to spend time between hunts and keeps me out of the bars!

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"shoot 'em if you got 'em!"

Never let it be said that I ride the fence...

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

That is because they know deep down inside that we (CF guys) are right! I just hope that they can come to terms with their inner self and accept the simple truth before it is too late.

Todd E

What amazes me is the number of people who are constantly seek an out-of-the-box, fool-proof, 100%-solution miracle rifle. They want that puppy to perform perfectly every time, but they don't want to test it thoroughly, nor do they want to invest another dime in it's fine-tuning. God forbid any further expense, thought, or effort to really get it right. This is reverse economy. A properly adjusted, tested, and tuned rifle is certainly worth any amount of time or effort that you put into it, and if you intend to hunt game that can fight back, it's certainly worthy of your additional investment. Your time and money or your life - take your pick!

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