It's 5am and you're in your 12foot high stand, 100yards down the ride the buck of your dreams glides out of the trees in the morning mist and stops to savour the scent of the doe that passed this way 15 minutes ago. You heft your trusty 6.5x55 to your shoulder and as you slip the safety you remember the little used public path that crosses the ride out of view 200 yards beyond the buck.

The angle is into the ground which has a few flints in it. The deer seems undisturbed and you are using 100gr ballistic tips, you do not want the deer to run far so you are aiming for the shoulders, should you fire?

This is an often faced choice (apart from the buck of your dreams bit) in the UK with many public footpaths and few wilderness areas. What do you all think?

If you don't have a good backstop you have to pass.

Don

If I can't see the path I'd pass the shot...

But when doe a good backstop cease to become a good backstop? What if the path were 500 yards away? What if it's a motorway half a mile away? What I'm trying to get at is there's literaly never a PERFECT backstop in the UK, sure you can shoot into earth but there's very likely going to be a path or a road or a house within quarter of a mile or so.

We're not talking firing bullets into the air or plain criminal dangerous what I want to try to do is start a discussion on what is an acceptable level of risk and there is allways some risk in loosing off a high velocity projectile.

1894,

I've seen guys take a shot almost parallel to
the ground and state that the dense planting of forestry behind offers a good backstop
even though they could not see more than 10 feet in!

The FC at Theford won't allow us to shoot
on metaled rides as they consider the dangers
to great...

Interesting topic,

Pete

I'd pass the shot. I always shoot into a firm backstop. Period. Sometime the firm backstop is the ground 500 yards away. Fine as long as I can see the route the bullet is going to take.

Here is an interesting excercise. Using balistic software run a scenario where you are shooting standing, rifle say 5 feet from the ground, aiming at a target 5 feet from the ground but 120 yards away. Assuming the ground is flat, how far way from you will the bullet touch the ground.

DeerDogs,

I suppose I need to be even more specific. What I'm talking about is not the route of the bullet from the muzzle to the animal but from the animal or ground onwards. In reality I'm talking about bullet deviation in the animal and subsequent bullet path, or richochet from ground of a bullet that's missed the animal or passed through the animal.

I too allways shoot into ground and where I can see the path of the bullet what worries me is what happens AFTER the bullet hits the game and or ground. Lets say you shoot at and hit a roe on level ground with a 100gr expanding bullet at 50 yards from a 12 foot high seat, what is the nearest a road could be before we considered it to be an unsafe shot?

Hello, I only recently discovered your forum. I'm excited to see that hunting and shooting survive in countries I thought long ago may have banned such politically incorrect behavior.

An adequate backstop in my part of Tennessee is rarely a problem due to terrain, lots of big hills, but to your question.

In my opinion the expected bullet to ground impact zone behind the deer in this example, would be within 50 yards out the backside of the deer, even allowing for a small amount deflection in the deer. (Assuming a platform of 12 ft, 15 ft to the shooters shoulder if sitting, shot at a target 3 feet from the ground, at a range of 100 yards.)

Having said that-- it's those darn ricochets that you have to worry about. You can never be "positive" of bullet path resulting from impact with hard objects on the ground. If the deflected bullet angle from the impact point was pretty high into the air the bullet could go a very long way.

A reasonable amount of safety, in my opinion, would be if you can see the path 200 yards past the deer and no one is there shoot. Bullets will usually expend energy tumbling and furrowing into the ground upon impact. It was not uncommon growing up to find the spent round laying on top the ground within 10 feet of the target if shooting at a can sitting on the ground say 25 yards away.

[This message has been edited by MWP_N_Tennessee-USA (edited 06-29-2001).]

What is considered a firm backstop? If you are sure of your rifle, ammunition and ability to hit what you shoot at, take the shot.

I vote to Pass.
I have had two instances where I passed up a realitively "easy" shot because of the poor background behind the Deer.
One was early in the morning,I walked (luckily)up to a Spike Buck,which proceeded to walk along the ridge,presenting a broadside shot at about 40 yards.I could NOT shoot,because Storm King School was somewhere over that ridge.The deer went back to the other side,and safety.
The other instance was late in the day,in dim light,as I was walking out to my car.A group of about ten deer came out of the swamp,moving at a fast walk through a little field.The range was about 60 yards,and I aimed for the double lung hot,stright ahead.Out of the corner of my eye,I saw the reflection of car headlights in the distance.I knew that the road was about a hundred yards away. There was no sign of anyone on the road,but Hunters DO walk that road.I had to pass,and wait for another day.
good hunting

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Several years ago the season openned with athick fog. My buddy and I were sitting in a truck waiting for the fog to burn off when a nice buck wandered 70 yds or so ahead of us and presented a perfect broadside ,standing shot. A real gimme. I was tempted but did not shoot even though we were in an area I knew well and there were no farms for miles in that direction. As the sun removed the fog we saw ourselves looking at another truck with a couple of hunters also waiting for the fog to clear.