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No initial blood trail
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
posted
Excluding pigs, how many have experienced the following on big game:

Question:
No initial blood trail for ~15 yards or more and then found the animal dead ~50 or more yards out.

Okay to include times when you weren't the shooter but involved in tracking but please don't include the times you were just a tracker if the shooter is an active AR member and you think they will respond.

Choices:
Never happened to me
happened one time to me
happened two times to me
happened three times to me
happened four or more times to me

 


Mike



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 100 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 9386 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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I have tracked hundreds if not into the thousands of game animals.

If your not following up and looking for signs of a hit for at least a good ways your not doing a through enough job.
 
Posts: 16942 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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Picture of miles58
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A bow hunter would never bother to ask the question. No blood for the first 15-20 yards is pretty common. Very sparse blood in the first 15-20 yards is also pretty common. Beyond 20 yards, the blood is quite typically much heavier with a decent hit.
 
Posts: 866 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: 25 January 2008Reply With Quote
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Picture of boarkiller
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Angles gentlemen , angles


" Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins.
When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar.
Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan
PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move...

Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies...
Only fools hope to live forever
“ Hávamál”
 
Posts: 12214 | Location: In mountains behind my house hunting or drinking beer in Blacksmith Brewery in Stevensville MT | Registered: 27 December 2012Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
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I am not a bowhunter. The question is related to rifles.

It's also not about who is trying hard enough or not.

It's more about the how common is the occurrence of...

"I swear I hit it but there is no blood trail, I am sure it went
this way but no blood trail...then holy sh*t there it is dead"


Mike



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 100 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 9386 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of Beretta682E
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
I am not a bowhunter. The question is related to rifles.

It's also not about who is trying hard enough or not.

It's more about the how common is the occurrence of...

"I swear I hit it but there is no blood trail, I am sure it went
this way but no blood trail...then holy sh*t there it is dead"


Every time i shoot a South Carolina deer with a Barnes tsx. Dead in 100 paces - never any blood.

Mike


Every man has a right to his opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.

Bernard Baruch
 
Posts: 11865 | Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida | Registered: 22 July 2010Reply With Quote
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Picture of Aspen Hill Adventures
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Has happened to me with coyotes. Shot'um and no blood trail but found the rotting body a few days later in heavy brush. Scent tracked...

This past deer season I had virtually no blood trail on a buck I shot. I was sure I hit him but not even a hair laid there. He ran straight down one of the hills and ended up in my pond.


~Ann



 
Posts: 16193 | Location: The LOST Nation | Registered: 27 March 2001Reply With Quote
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I consider it a bullet failure if I shoot something and there isn't 2 holes in it.

it's happened a time or two, and yeah the animal was dead, weird twists and turns do happen from time to time.
but I don't have to like it.
 
Posts: 3970 | Location: soda springs,id | Registered: 02 April 2008Reply With Quote
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Picture of boarkiller
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No matter what, as a hunter you have to make an effort to look beyond your belief you missed
So many variables


" Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins.
When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar.
Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan
PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move...

Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies...
Only fools hope to live forever
“ Hávamál”
 
Posts: 12214 | Location: In mountains behind my house hunting or drinking beer in Blacksmith Brewery in Stevensville MT | Registered: 27 December 2012Reply With Quote
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Often the blood is not on the ground, but up on vegitation, something I notice some overlook. I have also seen lots of blood at the site of impact, then no blood for quite a ways particulary in open country. A lot of blood can run dow the side of an elk before it hits the ground. fortunetly in the desert you can see where they go Smiler
 
Posts: 850 | Location: oregon | Registered: 20 February 2009Reply With Quote
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Bears are notorious for not bleeding. The heavy hair and fat layer can plug up a hole very well. I can usually just follow them straight up to the death bellow, but have had numerous instances where the blood trail never started for 20-30 yards.
Shot a little Whitetail buck once that luckily I saw the steam blowing out on impact (southern Alberta; -20 temp) otherwise I would have thought I had missed it entirely. Never found a spec of blood, but I was sure I had hit it. Took half an hour to keep beating around the bush, only to find it piled up in a slight depression 50 yards from where it had been hit.
 
Posts: 159 | Location: Brooks, Alberta, Canada | Registered: 17 March 2013Reply With Quote
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Picture of Colorado Bob
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It happens a lot. I've seen it with elk, deer, black bear & even the grizzly I shoot in AK. No blood, no sign of a hit & then there is a dead critter less than 100 yards away.
 
Posts: 534 | Location: Colorado | Registered: 09 June 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by jimmy j:
Bears are notorious for not bleeding. The heavy hair and fat layer can plug up a hole very well. I can usually just follow them straight up to the death bellow, but have had numerous instances where the blood trail never started for 20-30 yards.
Shot a little Whitetail buck once that luckily I saw the steam blowing out on impact (southern Alberta; -20 temp) otherwise I would have thought I had missed it entirely. Never found a spec of blood, but I was sure I had hit it. Took half an hour to keep beating around the bush, only to find it piled up in a slight depression 50 yards from where it had been hit.


I shot a black bear in MN one year. Knew I hit him; heard the death bellow. He came in late afternoon, so I had plenty of time to search. My hunting bud joined me. No blood whatsoever. I returned the next day and started sectioning. Must have seen 100 bears that turned out to be black stumps. Finally almost stepped on him. He was maybe 150 yards from where I shot him.


Don't Ever Book a Hunt with Jeff Blair
http://forums.accuratereloadin...821061151#2821061151

 
Posts: 7406 | Location: Arizona and off grid in CO | Registered: 28 July 2004Reply With Quote
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Mike,

I think it happens often but doesn't always get noticed if you hunt open country and see the animals go down. I do think you get less blood trails with TSX type bullet than more conventional bullets as a rule but not always. I remember shooting a nyala in Mozambique that had no clue we were there. He was maybe 75 yards away. I shot him through the lungs with a 300 TSX going at about 2750 from my 375 WBY. He jumped straight up in the air and ran into the bush about 100 yards away. Two trackers, a PH and myself could find no blood at all until we reached the edge of the bush and found him stone dead. So with an obvious lethal through and through why was he not blowing blood out the wounds or from his mouth and nose as he ran?

Mark


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Posts: 12068 | Location: LAS VEGAS, NV USA | Registered: 04 August 2002Reply With Quote
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With a rifle, It's super common.

I read about the poor guy who couldn't find a blood trail, therefor he feel he didn't have the right gun/bullet/caliber/cartridge and just shake my head!

Way more times than not, there's little or no blood to trail but I seem to always find 'em dead in short order.

You don't want us to get into the ethics or the putting in of the work so I won't...too much. I will say, please don't look for blood and then, in it's absence, declare a clean miss without looking, looking and more looking!

Zeke
 
Posts: 1574 | Registered: 27 October 2011Reply With Quote
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Picture of crshelton
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60+ years of hunting - who is counting - not me

Most shots are DRT or down for the count within eyesight; no tracking at all.
Since I began shooting my .405, only one animal has not gone down for the count immediately, That was a Cape Buffalo and when my second shot broke its pelvis, it was all over Irene.

Sorry to be of so little help.


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Posts: 1917 | Location: Republic of Texas | Registered: 25 May 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Lamar:
I consider it a bullet failure if I shoot something and there isn't 2 holes in it.

it's happened a time or two, and yeah the animal was dead, weird twists and turns do happen from time to time.
but I don't have to like it.


Why?

I have shot hundreds of game animals where the bullet did not exit.

They all died.


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Posts: 55977 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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Picture of miles58
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
I am not a bowhunter. The question is related to rifles.

It's also not about who is trying hard enough or not.

It's more about the how common is the occurrence of...

"I swear I hit it but there is no blood trail, I am sure it went
this way but no blood trail...then holy sh*t there it is dead"


With a rifle it has been much less common in my experience than with a bow. I think the last one I shot with a rifle that did not bleed was one that I shot through the shoulders and the heart was loose in the chest. I was hunting in an aspen cutting thick enough you could clap your hands to your sides and tip over and you wouldn't hit the ground. I spent over an hour on my hands and knees looking for any blood. Found the deer by grid search after dark with a flashlight. Went back the next morning and back trailed it. Found just a couple pin prick drops within feet of where it went down and nothing else.

In my opinion, Heart shot deer, whether with a bow or with a rifle are more likely not to put blood on the ground and I have seen nothing to persuade me that bullet type or broadhead type, one hole or two holes makes a predictable one way or the other blood trail or lack thereof. Nor do I see anything that is a predictor of how far they go other than CNS shots. After 60+ years of doing this After the shot I just go get them prepared to be at it for a long time with everything I might need for the worst case. Most of the time it's short and easy.
 
Posts: 866 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: 25 January 2008Reply With Quote
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I’ve seen it often, but wouldn’t call it common. Maybe 5%.

If you have shot enough, you will see almost anything happen.

I’m not the worlds best tracker, but usually you can find some sign, especially with bigger than a .22, and with an exit. I like exits as they make tracking easier, but it’s placement and adequate penetration that kills.

If you make the right choices, an exit will happen more often than not- that helps tracking.

Worst for no blood trail is a .22 with monometal expanding bullets. They kill, but too many dufuses it the woods don’t look long enough around here. The week after deer season is an olfactory experience.
 
Posts: 6700 | Location: Minnesota USA | Registered: 15 June 2007Reply With Quote
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Saeed I hunt quite a bit with lower velocity Cast bullets.
I count on them giving me straight line penetration and internal disruption.
but that second skin stretching hole is the one that does most of the damage.

after coming to use that type of bullet I become accustomed to having that type of performance.
so now I demand it from my cup and core home swaged bullets and go to the trouble of adjusting the core strength, and core retention modifications, along with the appropriate velocities to make it happen nearly every time.

of course you see stuff happen like a bullet hit a bone and angle along it instead of penetrating it and continuing on from time to time.
in that case with a C&C bullet your lucky to keep the bullet in one piece, and the extra efforts [shrug] are generally what makes that happen.
 
Posts: 3970 | Location: soda springs,id | Registered: 02 April 2008Reply With Quote
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Shoot ten of the same animal, same size, weight, distance, angle and there is better than a good chance you get ten different reactions.
The first Elk I shot was with a 250gr Hornady RN out of a 338 WM, 75 yards or so on the point of the shoulder, jumped and ran across a snowy field 150yrds to a wood line. I followed the tracks across the snow with no blood in sight knowing it was a good shot but slowly losing confidence. When I got to the wood line there it was piled up with the bullet hole where I put it, no exit but a chest cavity full blood and pink froth.
Question did the Bullet do what it was suppose to do.... Yes, efficiently killed a large animal ...
Did the Bullet do what I wanted it to do?? After that experience the answer was No, I now wanted a hole on both sides of the animal thinking a Blood Trail...
Years later and many animals later still looking for that perfect bullet that will give a perfect blood trail every time.
 
Posts: 1466 | Location: Vermont | Registered: 27 March 2006Reply With Quote
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Picture of boarkiller
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Perfect bullet is few Coors silver bullet beers after which all the women are most beautiful and you always take home two...at least that what it seems...


" Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins.
When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar.
Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan
PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move...

Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies...
Only fools hope to live forever
“ Hávamál”
 
Posts: 12214 | Location: In mountains behind my house hunting or drinking beer in Blacksmith Brewery in Stevensville MT | Registered: 27 December 2012Reply With Quote
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I hardly ever see or find blood trails from game I hunt here in NZ.
Just this last week I shot 3 Red Deer - without a blood trail from any. I was shooting Barnes TTSX 180 gn.
My son hunted with me. He also shot 3 Red Deer - with Hornady SST 130 gn. Not a single blood trail from any of his deer either.


Hunting.... it's not everything, it's the only thing.
 
Posts: 1174 | Location: New Zealand's North Island | Registered: 13 November 2014Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by 30.06king:
I hardly ever see or find blood trails from game I hunt here in NZ.
Just this last week I shot 3 Red Deer - without a blood trail from any. I was shooting Barnes TTSX 180 gn.
My son hunted with me. He also shot 3 Red Deer - with Hornady SST 130 gn. Not a single blood trail from any of his deer either.


Are you shooting them in open terrain when one doesn't have to track them.

Are you using a blood tracking dog.
 
Posts: 16942 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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Picture of samir
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Has happened to me 5 times, all with 85 barnes x bulles out of a .243. All heart and lung shots without one drop of blood.


DRSS
Searcy 470 NE
 
Posts: 1317 | Location: San Diego | Registered: 02 July 2005Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by p dog shooter:
quote:
Originally posted by 30.06king:
I hardly ever see or find blood trails from game I hunt here in NZ.
Just this last week I shot 3 Red Deer - without a blood trail from any. I was shooting Barnes TTSX 180 gn.
My son hunted with me. He also shot 3 Red Deer - with Hornady SST 130 gn. Not a single blood trail from any of his deer either.




Are you shooting them in open terrain when one doesn't have to track them.

P Dog
We shot these deer in a mix of open and thick, scrubby terrain. A couple of deer were DRT, the rest did not go far at all. We do not use dogs. Even if losing sight of deer after the shot we usually find them, even if they have moved further than we think.

Are you using a blood tracking dog.


Hunting.... it's not everything, it's the only thing.
 
Posts: 1174 | Location: New Zealand's North Island | Registered: 13 November 2014Reply With Quote
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Picture of miles58
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Is there any reason you might know of that they wouldn't be making a blood trail?
 
Posts: 866 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: 25 January 2008Reply With Quote
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High double lung shots with "premium bullets" on whitetails in the southern swamp we hunt commonly result in the deer rocketing off into hell's half acre of a thicket 50 yards or so before the first blood hits the ground with the deer usually dead in no more that 100 yards. A careful search is paramount before writing a shot off as a miss, and a good tracking dog is invaluable. When there's a lot of water in the sloughs, we encourage shots to the neck or, even better, on the point of the shoulder. DRT or nearly so cuts out a lot of bushwhacking and drama. An animal can cover a lot of ground while the chest cavity fills up to the entry and exit holes, and not every lung shot deer has a major bronchus and central pulmonary vessel disrupted which causes blood to spray from the nose and mouth.


___________________________
 
Posts: 42 | Registered: 10 September 2018Reply With Quote
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Picture of Outdoor Writer
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quote:
Originally posted by miles58:
Is there any reason you might know of that they wouldn't be making a blood trail?


Yup. DRT.



Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer"
https://www.forumsamerica.com/tonymandile
 
Posts: 3185 | Location: Glendale, AZ | Registered: 28 July 2003Reply With Quote
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