The Accurate Reloading Forums
Rifle to replace Remington JUNK ?
11 September 2003, 19:57
Jim the PlumberRifle to replace Remington JUNK ?
After fighting with the junk Remington is putting out, I am at my wits end. I have been dealing with the very poor workmanship from Remington to the point of giving up. This is a short list of problems I personally have had with "new" off the shelf Remington rifles: 1- with a bad extractor, 1- with a bad chamber, 1- with a bad bolt stop, 1-with misalined scope mount screw holes, 1- with the bolt handle installed 10 degrees off, another one with the scope mount screws misalined. You would think for $600-$700 there might be a bit better quality control.Being in the retail business I am sure if I put out such shit for product I would be out of business!
Any ideas on a quality off the shelf left hand compatible rifle in 338 Win mag or equvilant? Bolt is prefered but would look at a semi auto, single shot or..... Thanks in advance, Jim the Plumber
12 September 2003, 09:52
YukonerI have had a few of the problems you have mentioned with Remington as well.
I prefer Winchester M70's. Winchester has their woes too. A few minor problems that I can live with.
Maby I am wrong, but for low end rifles, I think Ruger has the best Quality. On this forum, we will soon find out.
Daryl
11 September 2003, 23:02
savage49494Jim,
quote:
Any ideas on a quality off the shelf left hand compatible rifle in 338 Win mag or equvilant? Bolt is prefered but would look at a semi auto, single shot or..... Thanks in advance, Jim the Plumber
I have used a Savage stainless in .338 since they first came out and I have had several other Savage products over the years, all with the same result, complete reliability. Granted not the prettiest gun around but they will do what they were designed to do. The two I've used the most in recent years is the one I just mentioned and a Savage Sierra in 7mm-08. Haven't had a lick of problems with either one.
If you like semi autos, check out the Browning site. They have a BAR in a synthetic model in .338. I hadn't thought about a semi auto myself but after seeing that one I'm taking a good long look at it.
11 September 2003, 23:30
p dog shooterI think rugers are the best deal in the market now. I have seen stainless mkII's in 338 shot under a in with Rem factory. As with any mass produce item. there is always a chance for a lemon
12 September 2003, 00:34
tom holland[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jim the Plumber: I think you take a chance on any rifle. I bought one of those new Win fwt in 300wsm and to make a long story short ,I'm rebarreling the rifle. I think a guy might be pretty safe getting a Sako. Well good luck. Tom
12 September 2003, 00:50
triggerMy son just got a Browning A-Bolt II left hand stainless stalker in 7 Rem Mag (no -boss). Only thing I did was to change the trigger pull spring with a Timeny($13) and it shoots under 1" with WW factory loads. Shoots under .5 with handloads. Best out of the box rifle I have seen.
A very close second is the A-Bolt II , right handed,synthetic stalker in 7mm-08 (no-boss)that my younger son has.
Both purchased new in the last 18 months.
I am am Mauser, Remington, Ruger man from day one.
Tried to get my sons to take a Remington/Ruger. We looked at them all. I think they made a good choice.
12 September 2003, 01:00
JDA couple of years ago, our local SCI Chapter needed a rifle for our fund raiser. I settled on Tikka because it was the only reasonably priced rifle off the shelf that was not junk.
12 September 2003, 01:20
JeffPFor present production Out of the box,mount a scope and shoot...
Sako.
12 September 2003, 01:53
875xI dont think you will go wrong with a Ruger. They are great guns and the price is right. You may have to have the trigger worked on but that is the price we pay for lawsuits still even with that you will have one at a good price.
12 September 2003, 02:24
Orion 1Buy a Tikka or Sako and never look back.
12 September 2003, 03:16
Leif WoldI would go with the Tikka. I bought a .338 whitetail hunter last spring. Wood & blue for $825.00. I don't like the cheap plastic box magazine, it also isn't aligned in the action perfectly, but that is all. It's a no frills rifle but it has tasteful lines, a good trigger and a smooth bolt. The Beretta customer service and factory support is excellent.
I also bought a Ruger M77 for my son this summer. Ruger quality is also good. I think the finish on the metal is better on the Ruger than the Tikka.
12 September 2003, 03:22
bowhuntrrlBrowning A-Bolt in .338!!!! The first load I threw together in my .338 shot .75" MOA. I ended my load developement right there. I've taken several elk with it. I love the 60 degree bolt lift and the location of the safety on the rear tang. The 2 A-Bolts I've had have been flawless.I will never sell my .338 A-Bolt. Mine is a composite stalker model, no shine anywhere.
bowhuntr
12 September 2003, 04:41
GeorgeSJim,
Look for a used LH Sako A V. I have one in .338 and it is superb!
Sako hasn't yet offered a LH Model 75 in the U.S.
Forget Remington! I haven't bought one in years.
George
12 September 2003, 06:55
mike338Jim, I have a Browning stainless stalker A-bolt in .338. I have never had any problems with it, took a bunch of game in Africa with it. It shoots quite well, under an inch at 100 yards with factory ammo. What else can I say.
12 September 2003, 07:39
E OM-70
M-77
CZ
12 September 2003, 07:40
GeorgeSquote:
Originally posted by E O:
M-70
M-77
CZ
CZ doesn't offer a left-hand rifle. Jim was asking for left-hand rifles.
George
12 September 2003, 07:58
Big SkyAnother vote for Sako and Tikka.
12 September 2003, 08:10
JLKIf I was to buy a new rifle today, based on prior experience, it would be a Tikka. Slick bolt and adjustable trigger.
12 September 2003, 08:30
DeerdogsTikka, Sako or Heym. I have had at least one of each. I rate the Heym very highly.
Regards
12 September 2003, 08:51
Lawdog_GaryJim the Plumber,
Go with the Ruger. Even if you had a problem, which isn't likely, they have one of the best customer service departments in the firearms industry(next to Weatherby that is). If you don't like the trigger on the Ruger(a number of people do(my son is one)) then Timney makes a replacement adjustable trigger you can install yourself. Also you'll be buying American with a Ruger. Lawdog
12 September 2003, 09:41
IanFAnother Brit with the same old lines...........Sako, Tikka !!
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Ian
12 September 2003, 11:02
rickt300All of these problems posted by the author of the thread are obvious to a simple inspection of the rifle before purchasing. Sounds like he didn't even open any of the boxes before taking the rifle home, sounds pretty suspicious to me. If indeed he was so unhappy with his purchase why did he keep buying Remingtons? I have owned several Remington 700's and have gotten excellent accuracy along with adequate workmanship even with the last one I bought a Synthetic 700 ADL in 223. Factory ammo gets me groups of 3/4ths of an inch and reloads are better, no function problems whatever.
12 September 2003, 11:43
<9.3x62>I like 700 actions quite a bit, and have always had good luck with them. That being said, I refuse to own anything they've made within the last 8-10 years or so, all mine are older. Too many stories such as your own.
I have actually grown quite fond taking older used actions and rebarreling them. Perhaps my favorite actions for this purpose are 721 and 722 actions, but there are many other good choice floating around. You can practically buy a 721 or 722 and have a quality after market barrel put on for less than the price of a new rifle. People complain about their extractors, though I've never had any trouble with my own (which includes over a dozen). I like their bottom metal set-up too, nice steel flooplate/triggerguard that won't shatter on a rock or in the extreme cold.
12 September 2003, 12:20
sakofanquote:
Originally posted by JeffP:
For present production Out of the box,mount a scope and shoot...
Sako.
Amen..and Sako has come out with a lefty this year...But, Alas, its not stainless LOL..sakofan..
12 September 2003, 12:35
Dr. LouSako or Tikka
12 September 2003, 16:01
Paul BarnardJust out of curiosity which Remington models are you paying 6-7 hundred for and which specific models did you have problems with?
You know I've done a turnabout in the past few years. I used to be die hard Ruger, now I find myself gravitating away from them. Reasons? Mini-14 5 inch groups at 100 yards. POI shift of 4-5 inches with a high cap magazine. 10/22 magazines jamming with greater frequency. 10/22 magnum with extractor problems. Sent it back and got a brand new rifle with the same problem and a trigger that seems to have a variable breaking point between 8-12 pounds. Ruger 6MM, honest 3 inch gun with factory loads and good handloads. Ruger 77/44, 4 inch gun with most of what I feed it. I love the look and feel of Rugers and they have a lot of calibers other manufacturers have neglected. I guess I lost my confidence in them. I have gravitated toward Remington because of several positive experiences with their products. I didn't intend to turn this into a bashing session. These were real and specific comments I made. Though I try to buy American, Savage and Tikka are starting to look pretty good.
Paul
12 September 2003, 16:25
bowmanJust got a Browning BAR in 300 WSM. Shitty trigger and all, it shoots 1 in. at 100 yds with Win 150 gr Supremes. Recoil is not too bad. Much like an 06. After the trigger job, I'll see if the groups get better.
Fit and finish is excellent!
12 September 2003, 16:27
bellhenderJust started to use my new Ruger #1 Stainless in 300 winchester. If your left handed and can afford a 10 dollar cartridge sleeve for the stock, The #1 is as fast as any bolt rifle but a lot nicer
12 September 2003, 19:20
papaschmudPaul:
My 77/44 liked the 270 grain Speer Gold Dot factory load. The other thing that I noticed with my rifle was that there was a very minimal bell effect on the muzzle end of the barrel. As you may know, this is a disaster in terms of accuracy.
Your rifle will most likely shoot much better regardless of load if you have a competent gunsmith cut the end of the barrel back till it is flush with the front of the front sight. Have him then install a slightly dished or step crown, and you will have eliminated that bell that tends to happen to button or hammer forged barrels when they are turned down from their original dimensions. If you will have that done along with correcting the bedding, my guess is that the rifle will shoot around 1 - 1 1/2" at 100.
Gabe
13 September 2003, 08:17
<Gunnut45/454>Jim the Plumber
Jim save your money and buy a Savage-for $325-400, you get a rifle that shoots 1 MOA out of the box a scope and sling in just about any caliber you'd want!
![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif)
13 September 2003, 10:54
Hold 'emTIKKA!!!! Great action, adjustable trigger, doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Got a model 625, NIB for under $500.00 tax and all. Cant beat that with a stick, IMHO.
13 September 2003, 11:35
Paul BarnardGabe:
Thanks for the response. I'd have never considered that as contributory to poor accuracy. My neck of the woods is notoriously devoid of anything that resembles a competent gunsmith, so I wouldn't know where to begin exploring my options. Heck, I bought the gun to be a bang around short range woods rifle for close up deer and hog work. It's up to that task. I handload exclusively. I'm just scratching the surface of the possible combinations of powders and bullets, so I'm far from giving up. I had hoped for a little better out of the box accuracy, but I really like how handy and rugged (stainless/synthetic) the gun is. One of my two magazines hangs up too. I'll hang on to it for a while.
Paul
[ 09-13-2003, 02:35: Message edited by: Paul Barnard ]15 September 2003, 03:46
JABI've had good luck with Remingtons. My experience is somewhat limited: 3 Remingtons, 2 Winchesters, and 1 Ruger...all bolt actions. The 3 Remingtons were better than all the rest. I've seen some bad Remingtons, but I've seen just as many bad Winchesters and Rugers...no experience with the other brands mentioned.
The last rifle I bought was a Remington 700 ADL in 308. Other than a lousy finish (all their blue guns seem to have a lousy finish nowadays) it is great. Shoots under an inch with some bullets and accepable with all the other I've tried. I put a new High Tech stock on it and had it coated...now it's my light weight weather resistant mountain rifle. Oh, yea...I did pay $50 buck for a new firing pin and got rid of the j-lock. Still under $1,000 for a light weight gun with a custom stock and custom finish. I could have done the same thing with a Winchester, but I would have initially paid more for the gun and I considered my chance of good accuracy less (without gunsmithing work...I know they can be made accurate).
Just my 2 cents.
15 September 2003, 04:23
vapodogI'm saddened by all the bad press Remington has been getting....however it's so loud and long I'm believing it's been earned. A good friend of mine was an engineer for Remington and he's confiirmed the horror stories I'm reading.
I've had just horrible luck with Ruger, Savage, and Weatherby rifles that I won't ever consider them for future purchases.
Jim, I suggest you look at Sako or the A-bolt.
15 September 2003, 04:43
<Savage 99>I too am saddened by reports of any rifle not being at least adequate. The first decent shooting centerfire that I started with was an early Remington 722. That was the heyday of modern rifle accuracy as Sierra bullets were first available.
I considered another 40X to use for long range target shooting. They used to be just as good a shooter as anything but now they seem snake bit.
Dupont no longer owns them and they have that suit to resolve. Not a bright future.
15 September 2003, 05:58
B17GJim P:
I have to second all the guys who say Tikka, CZ or Sako. You don't hear complaints about them very often at all.
The other thing I have to second tho, if 338 Mag is your cup of tea, is the Browning A Bolt.
I have one, and since I rebarreled something to a 338/06, don't use it much any more, because the 338/06 is so good with less recoil.
However I have not gotten rid of the Browning for one simple rule. It is against my religion to get rid of an accurate rifle, whether I need that caliber or not.
From Day one, that 338 A Bolt has put most varmint rifles to shame with anything down the barrel.
Nice thing about a Garbage Remington tho, almost any gunsmith will give you a decent price for the action, as they can make it into something for someone else. Gsmiths, just seem to love those Remington actions. I don't knock a Remington, but In most instances ,I have bought other products over theirs. However I love that they came out with the 260 Remington cartridge. Got to love them for that.
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15 September 2003, 07:38
<JOHAN>Jim the Plumber
I made this tip to an relative of mine n USA who is lefty shooter.
Prowl the used rack, you can find a nice Tikka m 65 or sako in 338 for peanuts if your lucky since some guys won't buy because it isn't made in USA or don't know about the model or brand. I have seen some European made rifles that been standing in gun stores collecting dust in USA.
Most guns made in USA by the large factorys are junk and expensive fixer upps. I will not buy a Remmy, Winchester, Savage or Ruger again untill they straightend out their quality. I would be willing to pay three or four times todays price to get a solid product.
Does anyone know how much a win pre 64 did cost in begining? I would be fun to know
/ JOHAN
[ 09-14-2003, 22:43: Message edited by: JOHAN ]15 September 2003, 07:46
AggieDogWell, I have recent Remington purchases also, and I dont have any of those problems. I am of the school of thought that any production rifle could come up with an issue or two, that's the difference between a production rifle, and custom rifle. Having said that, I do suspect Remington's loss of ownership by "Dupont" in the early 90's may have hurt them some.
15 September 2003, 13:07
.358If you want a remington, buy a used one made before 1985 (not sure if they made a left handed bolt then) other wise the Savage and Browning A bolt seem to be a very good choice.
17 September 2003, 06:06
verhoositzA buddy just bought a Tikka Dlx Grd 30/06 based on my experiences with a Std Grd wood/blue WTHunter in 270 over the last 3 years. He is a better shot than I am since my Blood Pressure is off the charts now- I used to beat his butt silly and I never let him forget it! but he was pleasantly surprised when his first 5 shots went in one ragged hole using Fed Prem GameKings at 100 yards...sez "thats good 'nuff for me" and sacked it up went home. Don't know anything about the new T3's but the WTHunters WILL SHOOT STRAIGHT!
Ron