Does the .308 Win suck or What?

23 April 2002, 16:18

Pecos41

This whole thread has got to be a joke, GSF. Friend, if you can't stop a rabbit in his tracks with a .308.........you ain't even hitting it! The last rabbit I shot with my .308 would have needed a vacuum cleaner to pick it up. You need to go back to Marksmenship 101 and learn to shoot. You're telling us you can't drop an animal in his tracks with a .308 when most kids in America have done it with a .22 Short? Don't make me laugh.

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A well placed bullet is worth 1,000 ft/lbs of energy.

24 April 2002, 02:35

Major Caliber

quote:
Originally posted by Pecos45:
This whole thread has got to be a joke, GSF. Friend, if you can't stop a rabbit in his tracks with a .308.........you ain't even hitting it! The last rabbit I shot with my .308 would have needed a vacuum cleaner to pick it up. You need to go back to Marksmenship 101 and learn to shoot. You're telling us you can't drop an animal in his tracks with a .308 when most kids in America have done it with a .22 Short? Don't make me laugh.

It was a FMJ, and I did recover the rabbit. It was a 100yd shot offhand!

24 April 2002, 02:43

<T/Jazz>

I have no love for the .308, just because it has been used by the our military for many years and around other world countries to boot. I might add is was the main stay for the best damn fighting rifle ever made, my opinion of course...........M-14 for those who have forgot are never knew.

I perfer the 30-06 for most things, but when it comes to swamp rabbits down South, I cotton up to the likes of the 300 Winchester magnum. It does a grand job on those buck swampers! I must admit you have to hit the target first if your looking for rabbit stew at supper time.

24 April 2002, 04:38

Pecos41

quote:
Originally posted by GSF1200:
It was a FMJ, and I did recover the rabbit. It was a 100yd shot offhand!

OK, GSF, thanks for the additional input. I think you just solved your own mystery. Proper bullet, my friend. Proper bullet! The FMJ was NEVER designed as a "drop um in their tracks" bullet! The last rabbit I shot with .308 was loaded with 150 gr SP and it blew the rabbit to pieces. These are the two extremes between your rabbit and mine.

We can get lousy results and make ANY gun unsuitable for the task by using the wrong bullet. And I know you're smart enough to know this. Perhaps all of us are guilty of damning a rifle when the problem was really we (you or I) didn't have our act together properly.

The facts are the .308 is an excellent and extremely versatile rifle, one that distinguished itself in the field, in battle and on the target range. Very few rifles can claim all these titles or match its overall performance.

None of the above may alter the fact you don't like .308s....and this is cool. I hate everything 6mm. Both our prejudices are just that. Everyone has their preferences in just about everything. This is what makes the world go around.

But I don't think the problem is with the .308 and never will be. Some people, me included, just don't shoot well with rifles we don't like! If you don't like the .308, this sounds like a grand reason for you to trade it for something that does turn you on!
And we all constantly look for reasons to get a new gun, don't we?

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A well placed bullet is worth 1,000 ft/lbs of energy.

24 April 2002, 06:49

<Mike Dettorre>

GSF,

W ould really like to see the load data or refernce material. I am considering a 7mm Rem Mag.

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MED

The sole purpose of a rifle is to please its owner

24 April 2002, 11:09

Atkinson

What I find amazing is that some of you have to drop your deer on the spot or it will go 25 yards and never be found!!! Horsehocky!!

You probably should take up golf or take some tracking lessons...A deer shot with a 180 gr. Silvertip or power point at 2600 will leave a very desirable blood trail....surly you can follow a blood trail..Yes, I have hunted there and even in worse places such as the Texas sand country where the ground sucks up blood like a sponge, but they can be tracked.

I have never seen any caliber that consistantly drops animals in their tracks everytime and I have probably hunted as much as anyone I know....

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

25 April 2002, 15:46

<Mike Dettorre>

Does anybody know of manual data that shows the following velocities

a 7mm rem mag with an MV of

140's at 3400fps
160's 3200fps
175's at 3000fps.

GSF indicated these were in manuals but he may have gone on holiday. I am very interested in these or a 270 win at 3100 fps for a 150.

Thanks,

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MED

The sole purpose of a rifle is to please its owner

26 April 2002, 06:55

Paul B

Ray. I must respectfully disagree with you. In hunting the rain forest areas of Northern California, the rain will wash out a blood trail and what few tracks there are in just a minute or two.
I will admit though, that back then in my late teens and early 20's that I wasn't the most experienced tracker in the world, but still, if that deer did go much more than 25 yards, it was exremely difficult, and sometimes impossible to find him.
Paul B.

26 April 2002, 14:19

<Sniper06>

Come on folks, we all know the .308 with a good bullet and properly placed shot will drop anything on this continent. A long time ago, a man named D.W.M. Bell (think I got that right) killed ALL the large and dangerous game critters in Africa with a 7mm Mauser, including scores of elephant, rhino and cape buffalo. In those days the 7X57 was weak compared to the newer 7X57 loads. And, taking bullet weight, diameter and power into consideration, the old 7X57 loads were a far cry from the modern .308 loads. Have our modern-day wabbits become tougher than the old-time cape buffs???? NOT
Man, I have personally dropped 150# deer with a .22 LR in my younger days when I didn't know it was illegal.
Sorry to have kept this ridiculous thread going.

28 April 2002, 03:21

Major Caliber

For the 270win the Accurate #2 manual has a load for 58gr's of AA-3100 and a 150gr going 3147fps from a 22". My gun must be slow, because it only gets 3109fps from a 24" with a 150gr Nosler. This is the most accurate load in my gun, with 3 shots under a 1/2" at 100yds.

For some 7mm Rem mag loads look here.

http://www.hotboards.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=7mm

How about that 3470fps from a 140gr in a 24" barrel?

[This message has been edited by GSF1200 (edited 04-27-2002).]

28 April 2002, 05:13

Atkinson

Now Sniper I agree with about everything you said and as a matter of fact it was Bell or one of the famous that said in his later years that he suspected the .308 was the perfect Elephant rifle with a solid.....

What I don't agree with is that you didn't know it was illegal to shoot deer in Texas with a 22 L.R. I was also raised in Texas and you and I both knew it was illegal, just didn't give a damn, in those days. I seriously doubt to this day if anyone has been filed on in Texas for using a 22 L.R. during the legal season.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

29 April 2002, 07:56

D Humbarger

GSF dats why I use 308 incendwewies to shoot Wabbits! I can easily see de blazin & smokin fur ball as it wuns away & twies to hid but when I twack it down its awready cooked! yum yum!

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Doug Humbarger
NRA Life member

[This message has been edited by Bear Claw (edited 04-28-2002).]

29 April 2002, 16:46

Buzz

I'd say "or what"

30 April 2002, 17:48

<Mike Dettorre>

GSF,

I gues we miss communicated...your post to me indicated that the loads for the 7 mags were out of a manual. The link you gave is other handloaders personal data. I don't consider that reliable info or even safe.

3470 fps for a 140 grn out 7 mag is 225 + fps faster than the hottest manual based load I can find.

Do you have any manual references for the specs u quoted on the 7 mag.

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MED

The sole purpose of a rifle is to please its owner

[This message has been edited by Mike Dettorre (edited 04-30-2002).]

01 May 2002, 07:33

<Moosedog>

Paul B
If you have problems to follow the blod trail ,why dont you use a tracking dog? Or is it not common to use tracking dogs in the USA?
M.D.

12 May 2002, 15:06

Major Caliber

I have a handloader article in my hand right now, with pressure tested 7mm rem mag loads in 162gr 3200fps at 51,000cup, that's under the Saami limit the load was 84.5grs of H-870 with a CCI-250 primer. Other data I have shows 3200fps with only 82 grs from a 26" barrel.

The Nosler #3 manual shows 3340fps from a 140gr with 67.5gr of RL-22, and that is with a 23" barrel. They show 2970fps from a 175gr with 62.5gr of RL-22, again with a 23" barrel.

[This message has been edited by GSF1200 (edited 05-12-2002).]

12 May 2002, 16:01

Major Caliber

Hornady #2 shows a 139gr at 3400fps with 71.4grs of 4831, and that's with a 24" barrel.

13 May 2002, 16:10

Jacobite

Well I just started useing the .308 last year. It is my light duty woods gun. My main rifle is a .300 Win. Mag. Drop them in their tracks is nice but just don't always happen no matter what the gun. I have found with my .300 Loaded with 165 grain Nosler ballistic tips the father the shot the more impressive the kill. I believe this to be the deer shot at longer range are more relaxed and just fall over when hit that hard. The only deer that have run were deer that were shot close to me under 100 yards. These were deer that saw me and were alert when I pulled the trigger. Damage to all the deer I have killed had about the same damage. The .300 loaded with ballistic tips really explodes the insides of a white tail. Still as has been stated alot can happen in 4-8 seconds before the brain knows it is dead. I expect fine performance from my .308 Once I come up with the right bullet/ load for the rifle.

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Don Nelson
Sw. PA.