I am curious as to why most everyone recommends the Model 7 and almost never suggests the Compact Classic for our younger hunters or for our wives. I feel that the Winchester is a far better choice, but I would like to see the error of my ways.

A few reasons. Not as accurate, more expensive, harder to find. You can argue with me on the first one but not the others.

Kent

Are you sure that they are less accurate? If so, how much on average? 1/4", 1/2" MOA? I doubt that the Model 7 is that much more accurate and even at 1/2" better, in a hunting situation it doesn't really matter that much.

I haven't had any trouble finding a Compact Classic. However, I'll admit that the Model 7 is easier to find.

Some things that a Model 7 doesn't have. 3 position safety, an excellent trigger without any questions on reliability, and CRF. Now before you get your hackles up about this not being dangerous game. It helps cut down on the mistakes of a young hunter. The CRF is somewhat like an automatic transmission compared to a standard. Less things for the hunter to deal with and can concentrate on muzzle safety. The bolt can also be disassembled with ease.

Longbob,

Lately Winchesters quality control seems to be the pits, the last couple of model 70's I've had the pleasure to own or shoot seem to hit the 2 or 3 minute wall pretty quick.

If you get a good one made on a wednsday go for it, otherwose buyer beware.

Bill

Two years ago I bought my wife a M70 Compact in 7mm-08, tuned the trigger and mounted a 4X Nikon . It shoots several loads into an inch or less at 100 yds but that darned 20" barrel kills the velocity. BUT reloads with Varget seem to go a bit faster than a few of the traditional powders I had tried. Great little rifle, accurate, light and well balanced. I just like winchesters though I do own a few Rem 700's as well. Really an either/or proposition if one doesn't count the purchase price into it.
The wife popped a cow with it at 150 yds and 160 Speers, worked great.
Frank N.

Longbob,

Basically a Chevy vs Ford issue. Lemons in both camps, depends on the workday like Bill stated. Good reasons to build a real rifle - a custom rifle. sure-shot

Hey Longbob, I've got a Safe full of M7s, but have no problem at all with the compact M70s. Perhaps I've used all kinds of rifles too long, to think one type is "inherently" better than another.

Same goes for the "Custom" rifles. If you get a Custom rifle and the Gunsmith has made some feature on it different than you expected, or built it with a defect of some sort, depending on the Gunsmith, you may be in for a long expensive road to recovery.

For the exact reasons you mentioned as strengths of the M70, "3 position safety, an excellent trigger without any questions on reliability, and CRF.", are some of the things I do like about Remingtons. Their fine 2-position Safety, the excellent and TOTALLY Safe trigger(fastest lock-time on a factory rifle) and push feed.

I've used the 3-position Safety and just don't see any benefit. In fact, it requires more hand movement to operate it than the Remington. Both not as convenient as the old Tang mounted Safety found on early Rugers, or Savage M99 Safetys.

There has been a fellow Testifying against the Remington Triggers for quite awhile now. He has perpetuated a false notion that the Remington Design is flawed(Follow the Money). Actually, it is one of the very best designs on the market. I can take any trigger out there and strategically place soem foreign matter in it, induce simulated wear or adjust it improperly and create a trigger which will be totally UN-SAFE. So, it is in our best interest to do a bit of "cleaning" occasionally on ALL triggers, make sure they are not abnormally worn and make sure they are adjusted properly.

I like the Push Feed because it is real easy to drop a cartridge into the rifle while testing new Loads at the Range and close the bolt without having to push the cartridge into the magazine. It is not a big deal to me at all though and I could use either system. Any design made(including CRF) can experience Feed-Failures, though at best they are extremely rare regardless of the design.

Now, that looks like I don't like Winchesters, but that would be wrong. I tried for a year to locate a 22" 223Rem Stainless and Synthetic M70 Featherweight. Couldn't locate one. Finally found a 20" 223Rem S&S M7 and got it. I couldn't be happier with it, if it had Jarrett stamped on it. And the same would probably have been true for the M70 if I could have found one.

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Good hunting and clean 1-shot kills, Hot Core

"I like the Push Feed because it is real easy to drop a cartridge into the rifle while testing new Loads at the Range and close the bolt without having to push the cartridge into the magazine."

I can do this with all of my Winchesters including the Classic Compact. What is the difference?

Not to try to start a bashing war here but the last M7 remington I got was a SS .260 that had the bore off center by a noticable from the outside of the barrel and you were lucky if it held 4 moa, as a matter of fact the two of the last three remington products I've gotten have had to go back to the factory for quality issues. Neither remington or winchester are immune from the current quality control problems.

Hey Longbob, Sounds like the fine folks at Winchester have changed the bolt slightly since the last time "I owned" a CRF Winchester. I've got access to one and I'll look it over real close in a week or so. Sounds like it will "snap over" the rim now. I do appreciate the input Thanks.

I've had a good many Post-`64 Winchester Push Feeds and liked all of them as far as accuracy and reliability. So, I've really no argumet with your choice at all. As long as you like it, that is all that matters.

BTW, I'd suspect the reason most folks recommend the M7 rifles is because they have one. That certainly doesn't mean the folks at Remington don't occasionally make one that is difficult to get shooting properly (see boltman's post). But, since all firearms are "man-made", occasionally you get a less than perfect example, regardless of who makes it.

And be sure to understand that in my first post, I certainly did not intend to "bash" the things you like in the M70. It is just that I don't like those things as well as you do.

I also prefer "Blind Magazines" but 90% of my rifles either have the hinged floor plate or a removable magazine. Will gladly admit that when you have a feed problem, it sure is easier to just get another removable magazine than have to wrestle with a fixed one.

WHo are you getting the Compact M70 for? What caliber? Do you Load your own, or use factory ammo. Lots of great Deer calibers out there right now.

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Good hunting and clean 1-shot kills, Hot Core

Hot Core,

It is for my 10 year old son in a 7-08. I don't reload. I think it is about perfect for him. We have put a 3x9 Vari-X II on it.

Hey Longbob, Sounds like an outstanding combination to me too. Should be great for the boy.

There is a lot of good factory ammo out there for the 7mm-08 now. What kind of groups are you getting and with which ammo?

Darn shame you don't load your own though. I've had some absolutely excellent performance with some tough, lighter weight bullets in my 7mm-08 than you will normally find in the factory offerings.

Remington offers a 120gr Hollow Point that I've not tried, but I remember one of the Gun Rag writers saying it was plenty of bullet for our small Southeastern Deer. Just put it slightly aft of the shoulder in the ribs and it apparently works similar to a Nosler B-Tip.

Good luck to you and your son.

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Good hunting and clean 1-shot kills, Hot Core

Longbob,
It seems that the M7 is easier to find (dealers seem to stock what the public wants to buy)than the Compact Classic, but I have found that the M7 is a little more expensive, but comes in more calibers. Hows all of that for a contridiction?
I bought my youngest son a M70 Ranger Youth, in .243 Win a few years ago. I have since re-barreled it to a 6.5-308 (uses military brass necked down to 6.5), and will re-barrel it to a 7-08, before we go to Africa in 2003.
From MY point of view, the M70 is easier to work with (re-barreling, etc)than the M7. BUT, this is because I have tinkered with the M70 for so long (35 plus years) and know its workings. A flat faced barrel is much easier to chamber than a recessed face barrel, and much easier that timing a barrel for the CRF system. By the way, I own both systems, and both systems have their strengths and weaknesses.
In todays world of CNC manufactured receivers, one is no more "precision" than another. Buy what happens to suit your fancy and go shooting / hunting.

Good hunting,
Dale (M70)

The Win 70 compact is a FAR superior firearm to the Rem Model 7. The absolute WORST firearm I ever owned was a stainless Model 7. It went back to Remington twice, and had everything but the barrel replaced and was still a POS. Remington at least refunded my money. The Winchester is WORTH the extra money as it has a vastly superior action and, most importantly, trigger and safety.

Brad Amundson