Last week I fell and droppped my favorite rifle. I couldn’t hear anything rattle in the scope, a Leupold 4x, but this week a 3-shot group was 3†right and 4" below the old zero. On a hunt I could have rezeroed and kept going, but what if the scope had died? I have backup irons, but the front sight blade broke where the post joins the base when I dropped it. Had I killed my scope too, my hunt would have been over.

Clearly I need to: A) Quit dropping my rifle, B) Have a pre-zeroed scope in rings, and C) get tougher iron sights.

If I hunted in open country I could reduce the falling, but everything here is steep, wet and slippery, and I’m so clumsy that I had the rear sight welded to my 1911’s slide. I’ve got a backup scope in rings, so I need opinions and ideas on ultra-rugged iron sights.

The front sight was an Ashley. This is not the first Ashley that has failed me completely, so I may be done with them. But would a conventional sight/ramp combo have weathered the same blow? Or should I consider a military-type hooded/winged front sight, such as that of the M-1, M-14 or G-3? At the risk of stating the obvious, I think things that work are far more beautiful than things that don’t.

I’m also considering Jeff Cooper’s idea of putting the front sight just aft of the forend tip, like on the Steyr Scout. My custom Scout had the front sight blade in the dovetail where the open rear sight had been, and I could hit at surprisingly long range with a peep sight and only about 14†of sight radius.

What are your thoughts?


Okie John

What rifle is this on?

Jim Brockman makes a HD post front sight w/ protective wings. The post is elevation adjustable and he mounts this rig on a band for bolt guns.

Recknagel sold by NECG makes durable sights that take a fairly hard blow w/ the hood in place. I was washed down a rain swolen mountain stream and went down a drop. I banged mine pretty hard on this fall and it held up fine.

Williams streamline base/dovetailed sight and hood are fairly tuff. This is the sight on the factory M70 Safari Express. I prefer the NECG though.

When I travel to hunt, I always have a back-up scope. Pre-sighted on the rifle with its own rings and all. A simple switch out. It doesn't hurt to swap the scopes back and forth a couple of times before your leave the house to make sure the zero stays put when you change them out. A set of ugly but functional weaver rings seem to hold zero the best when removed and replaced.

Get yourself a quick-release (or even basic weaver-style) ring/base set up and zero a spare scope. Whenever I fly to a hunt, I simply zero my spare scope to the rifle I'm using and then throw it in my pack.

I usually use an old pre-monrach 1.5-4.5x Nikon (gloss, with rings marks from one end to the other) as my spare. It works, and is LIGHT and COMPACT. Even if my primary scope is a 2-7x or a 2.5-8x, I'll still take the old nikon just because of its size. A K-2.5 weaver or 2.5 Leupold compact would be even lighter and smaller, but that Nikon fits the bill just fine for me...

Also, if while hiking your scope takes a good hit, and you are concerned about its zero, having a spare scope allows you to simply swap it out for the rest of the day, or at least until you get to a time and place where you can comfortably verify the zero of your primary scope...

Irons are nice, and most of my heavy-games rifles have good quality (NECG) irons, they are generally a poor substitute for a scope when hunting non-dangerous game in open country. Moreover, they can also be damaged if you take a spill with your rifle. Thus, the "back-up" scope (in place of irons) system has been my choice for non-dangerous game hunting.

Just make sure your bases are tight and lock-tited...

Gary, the rifle is a pre-64 M-70 FWT. I'll check out Brockman's website again.

9.3x62, I agree with you about the utility of iron vs. glass sights, and I know that I shoot a scoped bolt action better than anything. You may be right about not having irons on light rifles. But I also grew up with them, and I think hunting with a rifle without iron sights is like a man wearing bedroom slippers with a business suit -- it just looks like someone forgot something important.


Okie John

Jeff Cooper's concept for a rugged front sight that doesn't need protective ears hasn't been picked up by anyone commercially, and was designed primarily to work with a ghost ring rear sight. It starts with a ramped base, and the post-style blade is integral with the base. The blade is only as high as it is wide (roughly 2mm) and is thus protected by the shoulders of the base, which is much wider. The rear face of the blade continues the angle of the ramped base and that entire face is grooved horizontally to reduce glare. A fine blaze orange line runs up the middle of the entire rear face of the base and blade for precision aiming, while the entire blade serves as a heavy, fast sight for quick, close shooting. As a backup system it works well.

quote:

I think hunting with a rifle without iron sights is like a man wearing bedroom slippers with a business suit -- it just looks like someone forgot something important.

I certainly know what you mean, and I confess that the "look" of my heavier rifles complete with their NECG irons (banded front) and Talley barrel bands make for a very appealing look. But, I've also come to appreciate the "sleek" clean lines of a sightless barrel for lighter rifles. All about personal preference...

You should have a spare gun at camp.. A good sidearm is sometimes usefull as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:
You should have a spare gun at camp.. A good sidearm is sometimes usefull as well.

A spare gun.....what a novel idea.....about 100 years old I think.

quote:

Originally posted by Slingster:
Jeff Cooper's concept for a rugged front sight that doesn't need protective ears hasn't been picked up by anyone commercially...

I know he had this type of sight on Baby, and I'd take one in a heartbeat. Any idea where I can get one?


Okie John

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:
You should have a spare gun at camp.. A good sidearm is sometimes usefull as well.

Nearly all public hunting in western Washington is on tree farms. Logging roads are everywhere, so there's always a chance that meth heads or wetbacks will steal our gear. When I worry about sleeping bags and tents, there's no way I'm leaving a firearm adrift. When I hunt in Hawaii, having a spare in the field is illegal, and all game violations are felonies, so that's out.

I've killed deer with handguns, but if a few ounces of sights or a pound of backup scope can keep me in the game, I can't justify four pounds of handgun, a pound of leather, a pound of ammo, plus the bulk of a big revolver and the hassle of two types of ammo. A handgun's only advantage over a rifle is that it's not as big. After that, it has only disadvantages.


Okie John