I prefer the 7mm Rem Mag with 175 gr. Nosler partitions, as it has worked for me very well on all kinds of animals.
The .30-06, however will work just as well, and with the 220 gr. bullet, is probably a much better bushveldt cartridge (within 200 yards or so), as it will penetrate all day long, and damage a minimum of meat.
I would say to use whichever one you can shoot better. For me that happens to be the 7mm.
Joel Slate
Slate & Associates, LLC
www.slatesafaris.com
7mm Rem Mag Page www.slatesafaris.com/7mm.htm
[This message has been edited by stubblejumper (edited 04-04-2002).]
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From my cold, dead hands!
Thanks Chuck!
This year I am taking the 30-06 with 180 gr bullets just to see if there is any difference.
I'll report my findings when I get back.
I realy doubt there will be much difference.
I have had good success with bullet weights in the 150 to 165gr range. The only difference I have seen is the 06 leaves a larger entrance hole...and perhaps the 06 has slightly more recoil.
IMHO, both calibers are tit for tat.
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boman
JMHO,
JohnTheGreek
After 350 yrds both rounds start dropping like stones. You have to use a much bigger case, with a lot more powder, behind the same size bullet, to get anything more. And in the real world how much more are you going to get, and how much are you going to use it ?
The 7mm Mag hit the market when an awful lot of Americans had an awful lot of money, and started haveing an awful lot of tiem to chase big game. And with all of those conditions you certainly couldnt do it with a cartridge that had been around for 50+ years. You had to have something new and shiney to fondle, with brand new velocity charts haveing meaningless numbers printed on them.
I think the 7mm mag diverted to many hunters from a "real" 7mm classic, the 7mm-08. Of course the 7x57 is , and always has been, a fabulous round.
The 7mm Mag was the first of the "corporate flim-flams" visited on by the new Corporate gun combine. Personaly I'll stick to my .270s and .30's, and if I want a meaningful move up it would be to a .33 or .35.
No offence intended to any 7mm mag owners......J
[This message has been edited by alekojjensen (edited 04-06-2002).]
Maybe you can post your loading secrets then, because I can get 3,000 fps in my '06 with a 150grn SPBT, 2900 fps with a 165 grn SPBT, and over 2800fps with a 180 grn pill.Plus I have the luxury of being able to load up to 220 grn bullets, and at meaningful velocitys.
Now pray do tell me what wonderous extra performance you can get from a 7mm Rem Mag ? Forget the SD crap cause I only need to shoot thru one animal at a time and can do it quite nicely with my '06 at any distance you can hit with a 7mm Rem Mag with..............J
Here are your speeds JHOOK, here is how I match a big 7 to them. I'll use like B.C's (being as you don't think much of S.D's) and sight all loads(all bullets are Noz BT's) in at 100 and am interested in drop at 600. If I had a wind chart I'd add that with but this will have to do for now.
*30cal/150/B.C. of .435 @ 3000fps -minus 77.6" at 600
*7/125/B.C. of .417 @ 3600fps minus 51.4" at 600
difference of 26.2"
*30 cal/165/B.C. of .475 @ 2900 minus 80.8" at 600
*7/140/B.C. of .485 @ 3300 minus 59.1" at 600
difference of 21.7"
*30 ca/180/B.C. of .507 @ 2800 minus 85.3" at 600
*7/150/B.C. of .493 @ 3200 minus 63.2" at 600
difference of 22.1"
Let's see at 600 yards with the bullets and speeds you listed we have the following differences in drop
26.2"
21.7"
22.1"
I'm not sure, but what the heck was it we are arguing about again?
Let's now go to the wind-oh forget it that's enough for now.
"GET TO THE HILL"
Dog
Oh yeah one other thing I don't see much reason to use the 220 Noz Pt in the 06 but I think it would be fun, for giggles I will compare it with the heaviest PT Nozler has to offer. (and I would love to have a short tubed 06 with a peep and load it with 220's for bear protection.
Here are my thoughts on the comparison anyway-just for fun on a Friday night.
30 cal/220 energy at the muzzle = 3302
drop at 300 =17.3"
7/175 energy at the muzzle=3497
drop at 300 = 10.8"
so the 7 has 200 pounds more energy at the muzzle
and the 7 has what 6.5" less drop at 300
good night night gents-sleep tight
How about .280 Ackley? Get both...
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Davis Chase
You probably hunt different than I do so I can understand your point. Personally I feel taht there are a lot of rounds that are a like too 300 and a bit more. It's after that that things start to change.
Just my thoughts on a great Saturday morn.
"GET TO THE HILL"
Dog
[This message has been edited by Mark R Dobrenski (edited 04-06-2002).]
"GET TO THE HILL"
Dog
Then you say youd rather "shoot long" with a 7mm/125 then a .30/150 cause of why ? or 7mm/140 over a .30/165 ?, or 7mm/150 over a .30/180 ? Did you really say that "because the 7mm only drops 63.2" at 600 yrds" ?
I mean I live in reality bro, and I dont much care what a round does past 350, or at most 400yrds. And 350+ would be a "perfect calm".
Like I said, "brand new velocity charts with meaningless numbers printed on them". I just wonder how many "3-legged Elk" would have 4 legs if nobody hunted with the 7mm Rem Mag, or the 300 Weatherby.
No insult intended to any owner of either......................J
In the field I cannot tell any difference in ease of hitting at long range and/or killing power..I have used them both and we could toss the 270 in that crowd along with a bunch of others..
Mostly it makes for stimulating conversation around the evening campfire and some heated arguments, but after 60 years it has gotten a little boring...but I would never deprive you of these moments as they are part of the game.
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Ray Atkinson
Just my thoughts on hi-tech matters.
"GET TO THE HILL"
Dog
and by the way Ray I do agree with your thoughts on the 270-here are my speeds out of my 270 (you'd like it Ray it is a lil G33/40 with a Lilja tube on it in a nice piece of African walnut)
130 Noz Bt=3300
135 MK=3300
150 Noz or Sierra=3100
In terms of hitting at long range however I see life a bit different. Imagaine that 2 people with different opinions. (grins)
I do a lot of shooting at long range (to me long range starts at 400 and goes on out).
I've noticed a considerable difference in hitting a chuck at 500 ot 600 when using a 06 say versus a big 7. The same goes for big game. Just MY thoughts. Now bring out the Zamboni and start up the BBQ'er
[This message has been edited by Mark R Dobrenski (edited 04-07-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Mark R Dobrenski (edited 04-07-2002).]
About the 7/175 versus the 30/220,it all depends on what the purpose of the load was. If I was to be using one for close range protection I would not be using a 7 or a 30/06 with a 220. I'd be using my 340, my 375 Wby or perhaps my 416 Taylor. My main thought here was to say that the 7 load has more energy both near and far. And add to that the 7 load will shoot much flatter than the 30/220. Now for more "hi-tech".
30/220 @ 2500 drops 39.7 at 400 and has 1411 for energy
7/175 @ 3000 drops 29 @ 400 and has 2067 for energy (and by the way I am not kidding!!!)
As for my diatribe of hi-tech on bullet comparison. I just used bullets of the two caliber's and tried to match them up as close as I could using BC's-would of used SD's but you appear to have zero use for em.
I went through this arduous excerise in hi-tech because of your post reply "maybe you can post your loading secrets then, and so on and so on. "now pray do tell me what wonderous extra performance you can get from a 7mm rem mag???.
So that my man is what I did, if we had a windage chart things would prove even more in favor of the big 7's. To me windage is much more of a foe than drop.
You also said "at any distance"-being as I do a lot of long range shooting and am darn good at it (modest as well I know). So that is what I did I worked it out for both rounds to 600.
Then you tell me to get a reality check basically,one of us perhaps needs one but I am not so sure it is me. But then again as Dale Carnegie said, "you never win an argument".
This was in regards to how you don't care about what a round does past 350. Obviously you don't care about past 350-I do! Too me to 350 is a chip shot. What matters to me is how a round performs after 350 not to. To me you can put a truck load of rounds into the to 350 class. To me it's after 350 is where I began to look at how a round performs.
As to your inference to "3-legged elk" I'll put my shooting buddies up against most any in the world when it comes to shooting at range. If there are any 3 legged critters running around it isn't because of us. If, and when, we take a shot at long range it tis a calculated affair and generally it's one shot and lights out.
The three legged elk I see running around are not because of long range practiced snipers. It is generally because someone lost their discipline and took a shot they were unable to do so effectively. Caliber being not a big part of this equation so forget the part about the 7 Rem and 300 Wby. But I am here to tell you my man that there is not a bunch of tri-pod elk running around cause of us long rangers.
Well we are way off target as to the original question. I would suppose we have not changed the world one darn bit. Given each other something to chew on though. As Ray would say something to do when we can't be by the fire.
Hope your enjoying your time on top of a mtn in Tibet. Are you climbing?
If you ever get to "Big Sky Country" give me a call and we can go and shoot some chucks at range. You bring your 06 and I'll bring my 7. Then we can cuss and discuss the merits and downfalls of each while we are out there on the hill.
Have a super weekend
"GET TO THE HILL"
Dog
Just my opinions as I like Bobby Knight don't hesitate to share mine-ork ork ork
You've "piqued" my curiosity as you post from "Tibet", a country near and dear to my heart, though the closest I've been is Nepal. Is that some sort of obscure "statement" I don't understand, or the truth?
Best Regards,
Brad
My answer to this debate is actually quite simple.
1.) Ask yourself which one you shoot better
2.) Use that rifle
3.) Stalk as close as possible
4.) Use the appropriate bullet for the game hunted.
5.) Place the bullet on target
6.) Properly field dress the animal
7.) Crack open a cold one and tell your hunting buddies why your rifle is so much better than the one they use.
Joel Slate
Slate & Associates, LLC
www.slatesafaris.com
7mm Rem Mag Page www.slatesafaris.com/7mm.htm
Thats just silly, and I dont care if you post 7mm-STW numbers on a piece of paper taped to your cheekpad, its still silly.
And I dont give a damn what you can do at a range, which is wind protected, stepped off, with flags waveing. Mark post what you want, with Brad , or Bill, or Tom, or Dave, backing you up. You can be anyone you want on this thing, go for it. But you and your 7mm-wonderkind will cripple more game with your 600 yrd horseshit then I ever will with my 350 yrd chipshots.
After talking to you I now know why there are so many 3-legged Antelope as well. I can make 100 out of a 100 chipshots as well, thats why I take them. I dont doubt that your a better shot them me Mark, but the 7mm-Mag is still NOT any better then the 3006 as a hunting cartridge.
Hopefully I'll be in the Great State of Montana next Oct. "unfortunately after a week I'll have to leave it". I'll be the guy that has so much respect for the deer and 'lopes I'll actually crawl to within 300 yrds of them to shoot. AND , just like a campfire, I'll leave the place in better condition then when I found it............Hey.............Mark, you dont work at a Taxidermist in the 700 series do you ? I forget the town, but last time we ere there the kid we met started boasting about all his long shots on critters with his 7mm-Mag. When he told us he killed a deer at 1,000 yrds we all just looked at each other and laughed.
Ive heard more storys like that from the 7-rem-mag then any other hunting cartridge. OK Mark, you want to be asked, you, or your spokesman Brad, tell us about all your long shots on BigGame. "Chucks" arent big game.
And dont foget to include the cripples..................J
You've really got your panties in a wad, don't you?
Ever hear of civil dialogue?
No, I thought not.
Folks that don't have the skills,tools or knowledge,are screaming at those that do. They weigh their limited abilities,against an unknown quantity. That is risky business,though it often provides great entertainment.
You Boys shoot what you like. Make mine the 7mmRem and the 140XLC(3300fps,out of a 24" tube). Despite the screaming,the '06 can't bring anything to the Ball,that will run with it.
If I'm needing to toss 220grs of lead,to seal the deal,it sure as shit won't be out of an '06,at 2400fps.
In my estimation the 7mmRem combines many useful traits,in a friendly package. It is of enough capacity,that it will realize very nice velocities. Though of not such extreme capacity,that it mandates the use of exceptionally long barrels. The recoil is very controllable for most and I've yet to own or shoot one,that wasn't capable of very fine accuracy(in fairness,I'm not inferring the '06 isn't accurate). It propels some very nice BC's,of outstanding composition,at goodly speeds. They allow trajectories the '06 can't dream about,nice wind drift values,reduced time of flight,all while retaining energy(speed).
So if shooting an accurate,flat shooting,hard hitting,handy rifle,of modest recoil,does not appeal to you,by all means scoff the Magnificent 7.
To further sweeten the deal,it is extremely capable with the 120gr V-Max(3500fps+ out of a 24" tube) for off season practice and fun. Doubly so,because I favor the 120X for a lot of stuff. Their BC's are very similar,for Gents who weigh such things,in their practice sessions. That is criteria I evaluate.
The '06 is a nice cartridge,though not the Mythical Beast many equate it. She simply hasn't the capacity,to run with the Big Dogs.
Largely the reason,why the '06's sit stagnant in my closets. I love Big 30's,but the 30-06 isn't one..............
Stick to being a cheerleader Brad, your better at it <wink>.......J
It takes a lot of courage to call someone a coward on an Internet, about as much as to brag about all your "long shots" on big game. Boy, I get a kick out of guys like you. Im going back to talking about guns and hunting............J
I hate like hell haveing you agree with me too, please dont do it again. I didnt want to get into anything personal here, it was a discussion about cartridges and calibers. Yes, I just went back and checked all the posts "thinking it was my own hardheadedness that got things ugly".
Your right, it was Brad. I hate agreeing with you too, but your right. "Brad kindly please stop kissing Marks ass" ; "He was doing very well on his own". Actually Mark seemed an OK guy, except for his blathering about rock chucks "what in hell does that have to do with the 7mm-Mag and the '06 for big game"?.And can someone please tell me who Kirk Kelso is ?..............JHOOK "because I frigging feel like it!"