Oryx hunt.....(lots of pictures)

15 July 2010, 06:56

Crazyhorseconsulting

I just have one question here, what does the following have to do with ANY of the bsflag

that is being throw around about high fence hunting, or for that matter hunting of ANY kind:

quote:
Sorry, I didn't read the original post, determine the age, sex, and color of the author's skin to make my assessment

.

It is one thing to have a problem with high fence hunting, to me, it seems that someone has a problem with the hunters Age/Race/Sex.

The one with the problem, claims to want facts used in this discussion.

One thing that is a fact, that were it not for the efforts of concerned individuals in the private sector, for no matter what their motivation, a few species such as the Scimitar Horns, would nave been extinct, period for several years

This is one of those petty, mean spirited arguements that does no one any good.

It degrades and cheapens all of us that
like to hunt.

Throwing ANY racial/age or sexual discrimination into the discussion only shows the elitist attitude this person harbors toward his fellow hunters.

If we don't believe and act the same as he, we are not worthy of being called hunters.

Why not recognise this individual for what he is and what he stands for and just drop all conversations with him.

Congratulating a hunter upon a kill they are proud of, especially a legal one, whether we completely agree with the circumstances is one thing.

To state an opinion objecting to the way the hunt was done is another.

To bring the shooters age/race or sex into the fray is not only distasteful in the extreme, but is totally uncalled for. JMDO.

15 July 2010, 07:10

rcamuglia

quote:
To bring the shooters age/race or sex into the fray is not only distasteful in the extreme, but is totally uncalled for. JMDO.

You're totally off base and have not read or understood any of the posts....

go re-read them.

15 July 2010, 07:34

Geedubya

I've not visited this thread since the first page. I read the post shortly after it was made and did not respond at that time. My first thought was, wow, I bet ES gets blasted for this.
I was wondering how long it would take for someone to start bitching and moaning about shooting game behind a fence or in a pen. Would I do it, no. Would I call it hunting, probably not. But I sure have no problem with free enterprise, I wish Eland Slayer the best in his exploits, his youthful exuberance and zest for life. I applaud his passion for shooting and taking game. I hope it serves as a lifelong interest for him.
Best
GWB

15 July 2010, 07:42

Crazyhorseconsulting

quote:
Sorry, I didn't read the original post, determine the age, sex, and color of the author's skin to make my assessment

Did you or did you not make this statement?

Just answer that question, no other bsflag

, just that question.

Did you or did you not make the statement I quoted above?

15 July 2010, 08:15

scottfromdallas

Eland Hunter,

Nice pics. Thanks for sharing. I personally don't see one thing wrong with hunting on game ranches. I've never done it but I want a nice Fallow and don't think I'll make it to New Zealand or Europe to get one.

15 July 2010, 08:26

rcamuglia

Yes

If you go back and read as I have suggested, you will understand I was being facetious.

My point was that I don't care (unlike the posters supporting the author) what sex, age or skin color a person has who engages in this type of "hunt", it's rediculous in my opinion.

The posters supported the author because of his tender age and didn't want to tell it like it was to avoid hurting his feeeeeelings.

I don't qualify whether an act is good or bad by first checking those criteria then making a decision. The activity is either good or bad on it's own no matter who perpetrated it

15 July 2010, 08:33

scottfromdallas

quote:
Originally posted by rcamuglia:
Yes

If you go back and read as I have suggested, you will understand I was being facetious.

My point was that I don't care (unlike the posters supporting the author) what sex, age or skin color a person has who engages in this type of "hunt", it's rediculous in my opinion.

The posters supported the author because of his tender age and didn't want to tell it like it was to avoid hurting his feeeeeelings.

I don't qualify whether an act is good or bad by first checking those criteria then making a decision. The activity is either good or bad on it's own no matter who perpetrated it

You are entitled to your opinion and you are very opinionated. Seems like you are a little to obsessed with what anti hunters think.

I think I'll go take a headshot on some hogs this weekend and post on GW's thread.

15 July 2010, 08:38

Crazyhorseconsulting

No, you have a problem with the way the hunt was conducted and because, as you say, you did not get all the facts straight, you would probably have unloaded on a handicapped person just as readily.

Was what Eland Slayer did illegal?

Does he seem to be having a problem with it other than possibly his choice of shot placement?

I am not that big a fan of high fence hunts, but I am less a fan of people that can only sow sour grapes and then try to justify their actions.

Hunting means different things to different people, no problem.

It is when one person or one elitist group wants to force their desires onto everyone else.

Their diatribe does more to harm the image of sport hunting and sport hunters than anything else.

Especially when they are attacking something that is not only legal but is culturally accepted.

15 July 2010, 08:49

daniel77

I'm just a bit curious. Let's say that you plan for two years, accumulate points, and finally draw your tag for game animal Z in section X, which is several hundred thousand acres of very rough country. You pack carefully and drive 27 hours to get there for the opening morning of rifle season. You rent horses and a drop camp, and embark into the mountains that you've been studying for two years on a map, for a hunt that you've spent loads of hour obsessing over and planning. 400 yds from the truck, on your way 23 mile trek to the camp, you spot the mule deer buck of your dreams. He stands still, so you dismount, bring your rifle out of the scabbard, and BOOM, you have him down and ready to be caped and dressed within 15 minutes of leaving the truck. Have you been on a hunt, or does it not count because it was too easy?

15 July 2010, 09:01

rcamuglia

Do you understand English or do you need me to post it in some Commie language you may understand better?

Can you say:

FENCE

FARM-RAISED TARGETS

ABILITY TO ESCAPE REMOVED

UNCHALLENGING

SOMETHING TO BE EMBARRASSED ABOUT AND NOT PROUD OF

15 July 2010, 09:09

Crazyhorseconsulting

Can You Say Personal Choice!

Where the hell do you get off calling anyone a Commie simply because they do not believe the exact same way you do.

You have made your God Damn point abundantly clear, you don't like how the hunt took place nor do you have any use for anyone that thinks otherwise.

Give it a rest.

Also answer Daniels question, would you or would you not shoot the deer?

15 July 2010, 10:07

scottfromdallas

quote:
Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Can You Say Personal Choice!

Where the hell do you get off calling anyone a Commie simply because they do not believe the exact same way you do.

You have made your God Damn point abundantly clear, you don't like how the hunt took place nor do you have any use for anyone that thinks otherwise.

Give it a rest.

Also answer Daniels question, would you or would you not shoot the deer?

You'll never get through to him. With people like him, there is only one right opinion and that's his. Nothing you can say will ever change his mind.

15 July 2010, 11:03

Geedubya

Daniel,
funny you should post a description of such a hunt. In 2008 I booked an elk hunt out of Jardine Montana. Bought outfitter combo elk and mule deer tag. Two years before I had had an rem 700 sendero accurized and a muzzlebrake added at Hill Country rife just for such an occasioan. So by this time I'm out close to $7k. Go on the hunt. Wouldn't ya know it a heat wave hits Montana and this is a migration hunt. The last day of mule deer season it was 71 degrees F. Consequently no elk. During the first three days I had passed on three different bucks. They weren't bad, but nothing like you see on your favorite TV program. So I pass them up. Well once again its the last day of mule deer season and we're riding down Deckerd Flat, just across from Yellowstone Park. It just getting to be shooting light. We see deer about a half mile down on the flat and the guide says there is a buck with several does, lets take a closer look. We ride down on horses to get closer. Well it seems mule deer in this area must be used to horses cause we ride up to within 110 yds. of this group of deer. Now the guide works on tips. I had told him I would pay him xxx dollars if he put me on a elk bull and xxx dollars for a mule deer buck. I wasn't about to shoot this buck as he was a 2 x 2 and I had passed on three better bucks. The guide say hey my mother don't have any deer meat, you have a tag, why not bust him, we can have him for camp meat and I'll give some to my mom and grannnie. I agree. We’re discussing this, sitting on horses 110 yds or so away from this group of deer. Anyway I clamber down off the horse. I untie my pack, untie my shooting sticks. I take my rifle out of the scabbard. Next I mosy over to sit on a big rock. I set up my shooting sticks, take the bikini scope covers off. I lay my rifle across the shooting sticks, turn the scope down to 6 power. The buck is just standing there watching me. Next thing I know a doe walks in front of him, so now I can’t take a shot and have to wait for her to clear. Finally after what seems like 5 minutes or so she moves out of the way. I draw a bead on the buck and bust him behind the shoulder. Down he goes. Free range Montana mule deer buck taken fair chase. Closest I’ve ever come to feeling like I’d sinned with a rifle.
Say what you want, no self respecting Texas whitetail buck would ever let that happen.
I didn’t take an elk. After that I still had three days hunting left. I said to hell with it put away my rifle and cooked for the whole outfit for the rest of the time and had an absolute ball. In fact they liked my cooking so much they invited me to come back next year all expenses paid and cook for them when the went to their camp on the Hellroarin’ River.
Best
GWB

15 July 2010, 16:05

rcamuglia

Sorry for the tone of my last post

the head shot pic thread made me so mad it spilled over to here!

15 July 2010, 16:25

D99

High fence or not, wild or domestic, meat is meat.

God put all cloven hoofed animals on this planet for us to eat. Beyond that we are killing ourselves arguing about bullshit only the antis care about.

Lets bring the fight to the antis. And quit bitching about what is essentially meat on the table, and horns on the wall.

15 July 2010, 16:58

perry

quote:
Originally posted by rcamuglia:
I've communicated in a PM to him that I meant not to hurt his feelings or diminish his experience or his family's thought of the gift on such a special occasion before you chimed in.

I understand the purpose of everone's posts.

I'm passionate about this type of "hunt" and the way animals are "hunted" in other areas of the country to which are foreign to me. I've never "hunted" that way. I would have to classify it as deer "shooting" as there really is no hunting involved. Put out a feeder or plant a food plot then shoot the animals you've raised from a house on stilts while you have the latest camo pattern on....utterly rediculous to call this activity "hunting".

I've actually heard guys who "hunt" like this say how hard they "hunted" during the season to bag something. They wouldn't last to noon on any hunt I've been on.

And to compare trapping coyotes to spotting one at over a mile, stalking as close as possible, ranging him, dialing the data you've worked hard to develop into your scope, chambering a round that you developed, reading the wind, making a good trigger squeeze, then watching 4 legs in the air at 934 yards, is quite a stretch!

It was real hunting and a real shot that I may not even ever have the opportunity to attempt again. I'm glad I got out of bed that morning!

No one cares about your "passion". You shit in someone else's post about a gift, fine trophy and family experience.
Your just plane rude and think your "passion" justifies it. Start your own damn post. You have no manners.

Perry

15 July 2010, 17:00

perry

Congrats ES!
Great to see your folks joining you on this deal. Don't feel bad about the way it went down...live and learn. Lessons; expanding bullets and aim for the shoulder on antelope.

Perry

15 July 2010, 18:03

kudu56

quote:
I'm just a bit curious. Let's say that you plan for two years, accumulate points, and finally draw your tag for game animal Z in section X, which is several hundred thousand acres of very rough country. You pack carefully and drive 27 hours to get there for the opening morning of rifle season. You rent horses and a drop camp, and embark into the mountains that you've been studying for two years on a map, for a hunt that you've spent loads of hour obsessing over and planning. 400 yds from the truck, on your way 23 mile trek to the camp, you spot the mule deer buck of your dreams. He stands still, so you dismount, bring your rifle out of the scabbard, and BOOM, you have him down and ready to be caped and dressed within 15 minutes of leaving the truck. Have you been on a hunt, or does it not count because it was too easy?

I have seen that happen almost exactly, both with deer and bighorn sheep here in Wy., and a mountain goat in B.C.

15 July 2010, 18:05

Whitworth

quote:
Originally posted by perry:
Congrats ES!
Great to see your folks joining you on this deal. Don't feel bad about the way it went down...live and learn. Lessons; expanding bullets and aim for the shoulder on antelope.

Perry

Nothing wrong with his bullet choice -- he needed to aim farther forward. That said, congratulations once again! And congratulations for graduating!

15 July 2010, 18:39

15 July 2010, 19:43

quote:
Originally posted by Whitworth:

Nothing wrong with his bullet choice -- he needed to aim farther forward.

I would have thought the bullet placement was perfect.

15 July 2010, 20:29

rcamuglia

quote:
Originally posted by daniel77:
I'm just a bit curious. Let's say that you plan for two years, accumulate points, and finally draw your tag for game animal Z in section X, which is several hundred thousand acres of very rough country. You pack carefully and drive 27 hours to get there for the opening morning of rifle season. You rent horses and a drop camp, and embark into the mountains that you've been studying for two years on a map, for a hunt that you've spent loads of hour obsessing over and planning. 400 yds from the truck, on your way 23 mile trek to the camp, you spot the mule deer buck of your dreams. He stands still, so you dismount, bring your rifle out of the scabbard, and BOOM, you have him down and ready to be caped and dressed within 15 minutes of leaving the truck. Have you been on a hunt, or does it not count because it was too easy?

The reason for my flippant post was frustration that you didn't already know the answer to this question.

The answer is absolutely.

The hunt you describe satisfies all of the criteria of a fair chase hunt including the most important....luck. Ease of getting the game has little to do with it. The animal was there by its own freewill, you were at the right place at the right time etc...

I guess I didn't do a good enough job getting my point across. After some thought and good sleep, I think I've come up with an anology that is perfect.

Although I have no experience with either, I believe that patronizing a Canned Big Game hunt is perfectly analogous to patronizing a [B]Whore House.[/B]

Let's examine the similarities of the quarry:

1. Both are there for easy taking...no hunting is necessary
2. Neither can escape...there's no fair chase
3. Both quarry have plenty of variety (see posted pics) many are of trophy status
4. Bagging one is guaranteed....luck is taken out of the equation
5. The quarry is enjoyed by both customers
6. The owner of the Ranch profits by selling the quarry
7. Some are endangered and hard to find in the wild
8. Quarry can be mounted after it is bagged or visa versa

Let's now examine the similarities of the customer; we'll call him "John" in this example for simplicity's sake:

1. John is willing to pay for the experience for a variety of reasons
2. John is probably unable to bag the wild version of the quarry for some reason in a fair chase situation
3. No skill is required of John to bag his quarry
4. John uses "personal choice" as justification of his purchase
5. After John bags his quarry, he may decide to take another
6. John is the type of person who patronizes the business because of some deep psychological shortcomings
7. If John is happy with the experience, he leaves with pride and a smile
8. John has his choice of quarry; some have larger racks, thus a better scoring trophy
9. John may take home a "souvenir" from his hunt

Please feel free to add any as I'm sure the similarities I've listed are incomplete.

"Thank you, thank you very much! Don't forget to tip your waitresses and bartenders! I'll be here all week....Try the veal!"

15 July 2010, 20:44

rcamuglia

Oh, and perry?

15 July 2010, 21:53

D99

Most species of antelope (all?) have their vitals between their shoulders and a behind the shoulder shot is only a lung shot.

15 July 2010, 22:04

Crazyhorseconsulting

quote:
Let's examine the similarities of the quarry:

1. Both are there for easy taking...no hunting is necessary
2. Neither can escape...there's no fair chase
3. Both quarry have plenty of variety (see posted pics) many are of trophy status
4. Bagging one is guaranteed....luck is taken out of the equation
5. The quarry is enjoyed by both customers
6. The owner of the Ranch profits by selling the quarry
7. Some are endangered and hard to find in the wild
8. Quarry can be mounted after it is bagged or visa versa

Okay, lets look at the dis-similarities.

1. Mom and Dad ain't gonna pay to have the whore hung on the wall, or at least the parts there of that were the actual trophy.

Addendum, your wife won't either.

rcamigula, the problem and you seem to have lost sight of this, is that not all of us defending Eland Slayer are doing so because we like high fence hunts.

As others have stated, this yound man did something that he was perfectly comfortable doing, had wanted to do for a long time, and among many people is a totally acceptable act and is perfectly legal.

If prostitution was legalised and actively controlled by the goverment, either state or federal, it would effectively cut down on an activity that is a major problem all across America.

Do I or would I want to go visit a whore house, no, but that is MY CHOICE.

But I have no right to prevent or bitch if others do.

Same with hunting.

I don't hunt on high fence very often, again that is my choice.

I do not ask anyone else to share that view.

While you are on such a soap box, give your thoughts on hunting from a blind watching a timed feeder or for that matter the use of dogs to hunt anything?

15 July 2010, 22:20

rcamuglia

quote:
While you are on such a soap box, give your thoughts on hunting from a blind watching a timed feeder ......?

If you were thorough enough to have followed this thread and read all the posts, you would already know the answer to that question as well.

Get with the program.

15 July 2010, 22:57

Crazyhorseconsulting

Why don't you just man up and answer the question instead of hiding behind all the minutea that has been posted earlier.

Is there something wrong with just openly saying what you think, even if it is for the second or third time?

Why don't you get with a program?

What type of hunting do you NOT have a problem with?

16 July 2010, 00:39

rcamuglia

quote:
Originally posted by rcamuglia:
Even worse!

Shooting an endangered Oryx inside a high fenced ranch!

I don't care if it was raised for that purpose. It's amazing what some people consider "hunting".

Enough of the sitting in boxes on stilts overlooking feeders, and in high fenced areas to boot, killing giants for the record book and actually calling it "hunting".

Hunting is getting a tag, scouting an area, then during the alloted season trying to find the animals with a vehicle or on foot.

Pitiful.

I did the work that you high fence hunters are too lazy to do....

16 July 2010, 00:40

rcamuglia

quote:
Originally posted by rcamuglia:
quote:
Originally posted by daniel77:
I'm just a bit curious. Let's say that you plan for two years, accumulate points, and finally draw your tag for game animal Z in section X, which is several hundred thousand acres of very rough country. You pack carefully and drive 27 hours to get there for the opening morning of rifle season. You rent horses and a drop camp, and embark into the mountains that you've been studying for two years on a map, for a hunt that you've spent loads of hour obsessing over and planning. 400 yds from the truck, on your way 23 mile trek to the camp, you spot the mule deer buck of your dreams. He stands still, so you dismount, bring your rifle out of the scabbard, and BOOM, you have him down and ready to be caped and dressed within 15 minutes of leaving the truck. Have you been on a hunt, or does it not count because it was too easy?

The reason for my flippant post was frustration that you didn't already know the answer to this question.

The answer is absolutely.

The hunt you describe satisfies all of the criteria of a fair chase hunt including the most important....luck. Ease of getting the game has little to do with it. The animal was there by its own freewill, you were at the right place at the right time etc...

I guess I didn't do a good enough job getting my point across. After some thought and good sleep, I think I've come up with an anology that is perfect.

Although I have no experience with either, I believe that patronizing a Canned Big Game hunt is perfectly analogous to patronizing a [B]Whore House.[/B]

Let's examine the similarities of the quarry:

1. Both are there for easy taking...no hunting is necessary
2. Neither can escape...there's no fair chase
3. Both quarry have plenty of variety (see posted pics) many are of trophy status
4. Bagging one is guaranteed....luck is taken out of the equation
5. The quarry is enjoyed by both customers
6. The owner of the Ranch profits by selling the quarry
7. Some are endangered and hard to find in the wild
8. Quarry can be mounted after it is bagged or visa versa

Let's now examine the similarities of the customer; we'll call him "John" in this example for simplicity's sake:

1. John is willing to pay for the experience for a variety of reasons
2. John is probably unable to bag the wild version of the quarry for some reason in a fair chase situation
3. No skill is required of John to bag his quarry
4. John uses "personal choice" as justification of his purchase
5. After John bags his quarry, he may decide to take another
6. John is the type of person who patronizes the business because of some deep psychological shortcomings
7. If John is happy with the experience, he leaves with pride and a smile
8. John has his choice of quarry; some have larger racks, thus a better scoring trophy
9. John may take home a "souvenir" from his hunt

Please feel free to add any as I'm sure the similarities I've listed are incomplete.

"Thank you, thank you very much! Don't forget to tip your waitresses and bartenders! I'll be here all week....Try the veal!"