The Accurate Reloading Forums
Re: Rifled shotgun and sabot slugs
07 April 2004, 13:44
MikelravyRe: Rifled shotgun and sabot slugs
Mark
I know bolt guns are definitely the way to go. However I have a Mossberg with a rifled barrel already and was hoping it would be ok. If not I will trade it for a bolt gun, probably another Mossberg. In particular I was interested in how the various slugs perform on game. I have had unsatisfactory results with Foster type slugs.
08 April 2004, 04:28
Grizzly AlbertI've seen rifled chokes that replace the screw-in chokes that are standard now in many brands. You buy a screw in choke, a "no drill" scope mount, and (presto!) your shotgun is a slug gun. Seems too good to be true. Anybody have any experiance with these? Kind of slug used?
08 April 2004, 06:11
SkibumI use a rifled choke tube on my 870 Turkey gun. With a Leupold 1x4 shotgun scope on an Aimpoint sadlle mount, and 2 3/4" Lightfield slugs I get 3" groups at 100 yards. Effectiveness on game is like any other gun. Hit them in the vitals and they die. A big hole in the muzzle and heavy recoil won't kill a deer. Shot placement will.
Jeff
Mike,
Then try copper solids would be my suggestion. One thing really bad for accuracy is to shoot out of a hot barrel, as that softens up the sabot and you'll get flyers. So when you are grouping only shoot twice then let the gun cool.
Mark
08 April 2004, 07:17
Mad DogI have a Rem. 870 sp 12Ga. that is about 13-14 years old. It has a screw in rifled choke tube, This particular gun came out before their fully rifled barrels. Initially, I tried 8-10 brands of slugs thru it[this was about 1990, before a lot of the new slugs were out on the market]. The load that was the most accurate was the old winchester 1 oz. foster slug. When I do my part, it will do 3 shots touching at 50 yds., off the bench. I have killed over 35 whitetails with this gun[it has a 1.5-5x simmons on board]. Last summer, just for giggles, I tried a 5 pack of the winchester nosler part. gold rounds, thru it. The accuracy was as good, but no better than the foster slug. If I was going to hunt black bear, or big hogs with it, I'd use the partitions, but for whitetails, I'll just stick with the fosters. $2.99 vs. $12.99 per 5 pak, is a big difference. The partitions, have a flatter trajectory, and better down range performance, but my longest deer kill, has been 130 yds. Oh yeah, which slug to use? The one that is the most accurate in YOUR gun
Mad Dog
08 April 2004, 07:27
eshellQuote:
. . . . My Hasting's Paradox barrel recommends Federal or Winchester Supreme. It's too new; haven't tried them yet. . . . .
I've shot the Federal Premium loads that use the 325 grain Barnes "Expander" bullets in my Rem 870 Paradox barrel; #P152 XS. Recoil is surprisingly light and they shoot extremely well, groups running about 3-4" at 100 yards from my scoped gun. Expansion is typical Barnes.
http://www.federalpremium.com/ammo30/slug_results.aspx
08 April 2004, 07:38
eshellQuote:
. . . The load that was the most accurate was the old winchester 1 oz. foster slug. . . .
Amazingly, my shotgun used to shoot these same cheap slugs great, too. I used them for years with very good success, and they were indeed the very best value to boot, at $3/5 pack.
Not too long ago, maybe five years back, I was running low and restocked my old Win slugs. Checking zero, I was disappointed to find them now shooting 12" "groups" at 50 yards. Examination revealed major QC problems. Cocked, off center slugs, irregular roll crimps, some slugs seated tight, some rattle around, mashed skirts, etc.. In short, a fine product has gone to hell, so if you still have older ammo, make the most of it.
I was told Winchester only made the old style Foster slug loads up for the few diehards that still deer hunt with smoothbores, doubles, etc.. Since "everyone" is so infatuated with the high-tech offerings, the R&D / QC dollars are spent there. 
08 April 2004, 13:38
<Guest>Mikelravy
May I suggest checking out a combo that I have been extremely happy with when hunting with slugs, although you will have to search the used market if you want one, or perhaps have a custom builder make one up for you.
What I use is a Browning A-Bolt that was specifically made for Sabot Slugs. It has a rather nice wood stock, a 20 inch rifled barrel, and a magazine that will hold 3 inch shells.
I put a 2 3/4 power scope on it (although it came with regular sights as well) and use Winchester Supreme 3 inch sabots in it. I have made shots at deer out to 80 measured yards with that gun with absolutely no problems whatsoever. Usually it seems as though the deer just loses its legs because they usually go straight down with one shot.
Blue
09 April 2004, 03:44
MikelravyThanks for the info guys. I hope to start trying to get a load for my existing gun this weekend. If not satisfied will be shopping for new one. My old smoothbore just doesn't cut it.
09 April 2004, 16:21
rickt300"Diehards that still use smmothbores?" Let me tell you mugwhumpus that more smoothbores are used every year with foster type slugs to take more deer than all the rest in the last five years. Those same Winchester foster type slugs easily print 3 inch groups from my cylinder bored shotgun at 75 yards as long as I keep the barrel clean. In fact I never saw the need for any more accuracy or knockdown and where I will use a shotgun 100 yards is beanfield shooting. I don't think you got any bad slugs I think you just had a bad day at the range or you need to clean that rusty gun of yours.
Lightfields seem to fly well out of many different rifled slugguns, I would try those, and Federals with the Barnes. One of the big hurdles is that shotgun trigger. The best factory bolt gun I have used has been the Savage, they shoot well, Like 2" at 100. feeding can be iffy. I dont think the Browning is available, except in the used market.
HBH
10 April 2004, 04:36
erictSee the expansion you get from the 'copper solids' on the post below. Accuracy with my TCR/87 slug barrel w/4x Leupold in 3" 12-ga. with the copper solids is 1"/100 yds. consistently.:
http://www.accuratereloading.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB2&Number=522699&Forum=10 April 2004, 09:15
Don_GI shoot a cheap NEF Tracker Pardner II. Which is a 10 gauge single-barrel blank drilled and rifled for 12 gauge 3" magnums.
The result is an 11 lb monstrosity that prints cloverleafs at 50 yards, 1.5 inches at 100 yards.
Topped with a cheap (but so far surprisingly serviceable) Simmons fixed 4 power shotgun scope, it has killed every deer I've shot at.
I think the shotgun was $100 at Wal-Mart, and the scope was in the $30 range. Both were on sale after season closed one year.
I use Rem Copper Solids, as they were the first shell I tried and worked well. They are expensive but I usually shoot this gun less than 5 times a year. Three shots at 100 yards - "yep, still zeroed". Then two does on the ground.
10 April 2004, 17:53
FordfreakAnother vote for Federal Premiums with the Barnes Expander.
I get under 3" groups at 100 yards in my 870sp with the fully rifled cantilever barrel and 3-9 power simons scope.
Performance on deer size game is quite impressive, with most shots resulting in quick kills and heavy blood trails.
Fordfreak
Quote:
"Diehards that still use smmothbores?" Let me tell you mugwhumpus that more smoothbores are used every year with foster type slugs to take more deer than all the rest in the last five years. Those same Winchester foster type slugs easily print 3 inch groups from my cylinder bored shotgun at 75 yards as long as I keep the barrel clean. In fact I never saw the need for any more accuracy or knockdown and where I will use a shotgun 100 yards is beanfield shooting. I don't think you got any bad slugs I think you just had a bad day at the range or you need to clean that rusty gun of yours.
Don't get yourself all excited. Go back and re-read what I actually said:
Quote:
I was told Winchester only made the old style Foster slug loads up for the few diehards that still deer hunt with smoothbores, doubles, etc.. Since "everyone" is so infatuated with the high-tech offerings, the R&D / QC dollars are spent there.
I also said that I, too, had HAD great success with the older W-W Fosters. They shot amazingly well. I, too think they have plenty power for deer.
A very "bad day at the range" means my groups went from 1/4 moa to 1 moa, THAT'S a bad day, not 12" groups at 50 yards. I really don't think that is the case. I think would panic over 12" groups from my archery rig at that range.
My slug gun is an M-870 with a Hasting barrel and a Leupold scope. Although it has indeed accumulated a few rust spots and dings from it's 25 year career in the goose blind and treestand, the Hastings bore is spotless and it still shoots very well with decent ammo.
The bad ammo I had was also experienced concurrently by other shooters in my area at the same time. I know this because I am a range officer and participate in the state qualifications required here to hunt military bases and certain federally controlled lands. I worked Ft. Meade and we qualify a couple hundred hunters a day on five different days, every year, so I do see a few shotgun slugs fired, perhaps more than many shooters. Many people here shot this ammo, for the same reasons you and I do/did. I would have bet money on the accuracy of mine at one time.
Ten years ago, 90% of slug hunters here used a smoothbore with a bead sight, and foster-style slugs. Today, 90% of the hunters shoot rifled bores and at least a lead sabot, if not something even more high-tech. You can't even walk through Wal-Mart without tripping over scoped, rifled slug guns. Right or wrong, it's a trendy bunch. Mebbe different where your are.
My first reaction to the poor shooting W-W's was to go over the gun. Checked everything, cleaned it (again). No joy. Someone else commented about the shells, and next thing you know, we had shells all over the table, looking them over, seeing ugly stuff. The physical defects I had stated above were observed by others besides myself. The new stuff was obviously different. Guns that were shooting poorly were given a few Federal sabots and immediately improved. Do the math.
It appears that you seem to believe your own personal experience would apply to everyone else, but it may not.
It is entirely possible that:
A) a whole truckload of bad ammo came to my area, but not yours. Perhaps the problem was temporary and/or isolated.
or
B) the ammo production did actually change, but your ammo sources haven't been resupplied yet. Are you in a remote area? An unpopular state?
or
C) the ammo you are shooting is old stock from your own supply. Do you buy in bulk? I do, my old stock shot fine for years, too.
I can assure you that you were not singled out by my reference to "diehards" and "smoothbores". I apologise if I struck a nerve. 
And, finally, what's a "mugwhumpus"? I've never been called that before.
11 January 2006, 15:27
Sambar 9.3From memory a 'mugwhump' is like 'bigfoot', at least that's what I was told in Vancouver.
Maybe mugwhumpus is the genus?
Cheers, Dave.
Cheers, Dave.
Aut Inveniam Viam aut Faciam.
11 January 2006, 18:09
gixxerI have not had too much luck with the Rem Premier copper solids. Using an 870 turkey gun with the rifled choke. I guess I really have to experiment with different ammo. it was shooting 6in @ 50yd.
11 January 2006, 20:45
gerry375Mikelravy:
If Mossberg autos or pumps come with interchangeable barrels (like Rem) I would urge you to try a Hastings rifled barrel using 2 3/4" sabots. (The 3" have a rather bad recoil and the difference isn't worth it if it's deer you're after) I used that combo (with a Leopold 4x scope) in both a Rem. 11-87 and a Rem 1100. (12 ga) Both guns grouped within 3 or 3 1/2" at 75 yards. Over a lifetime, it is my definite impression that a shot with a slug in the haunches (south end of a deer going north) usually doesn't drive through to the boiler room. Any other hit with a slug would knock a deer down right there -or such has been my experience in NY deer hunting. Just my thoughts.
12 January 2006, 05:45
Jeff2855The federal with 3/4 oz. Barnes expanders shoot best out of my marlin bolt gun with rifled barrel.