Anyone used Match Kings for hunting?

19 November 2008, 01:36

olarmy

quote:
Originally posted by Boss Hoss:
The 150 SMK in 7mm (the above pics were with the Warp 7) also use the 250gr .338 along with the 300gr but the 300 is only in 1 rifle.

The 190 SMK .30 out of the 300 Slowpoke which is a RUM improved and the 155gr out of my 300WSM BUT it is used where the min impact range will be 150yards the 338 Slowpoke is an improved Lapua first built for competition now have several sporters built for it as well.

Also have used too many to count 142SMK's in 6.5 to kill feral hogs on down. This being said the 150 and the 190 are what I hunt with 90% of the time for long range because of the energy over 500yds. The 142â€™s which are out of a sporter chambered with the same reamer used for my match rifles in 6.5x284 does not have quite energy or velocity needed for shots over 350yds for that specific bullet IMHO on feral hogs and deer.

So are you saying that those particular SMK's are designed differently (according to your inside contacts) and have different core compositions, jacket thicknesses at the base, jacket taper ratios,etc. than other MK's?

Would that imply that Sierra is actually designing some SMK's differently than others and considering hunting and terminal ballistics as part of their design criteria?

19 November 2008, 05:50

p dog shooter

jwp475 the anti MK posters ignore his and all the other successful users the last thread so why would they not ignore the openions on this one.

We are just lairs and fools that have killed game with MK's or wait maybe we haven't killed dozens of game anmials with them we are just making it up.

19 November 2008, 05:56

p dog shooter

Well for all your MK are not hunting bullets haters.

I'll be using them Sat. Morning for Wis opener.

I sure when I shoot my deer he will not die like the last ones did.

Maybe those that died were just in my mind.

Just make sure you are wailing and screaming for the poor deer about 730 am.

19 November 2008, 18:30

Boss Hoss

quote:
Originally posted by olarmy:
quote:
Originally posted by Boss Hoss:
The 150 SMK in 7mm (the above pics were with the Warp 7) also use the 250gr .338 along with the 300gr but the 300 is only in 1 rifle.

The 190 SMK .30 out of the 300 Slowpoke which is a RUM improved and the 155gr out of my 300WSM BUT it is used where the min impact range will be 150yards the 338 Slowpoke is an improved Lapua first built for competition now have several sporters built for it as well.

Also have used too many to count 142SMK's in 6.5 to kill feral hogs on down. This being said the 150 and the 190 are what I hunt with 90% of the time for long range because of the energy over 500yds. The 142â€™s which are out of a sporter chambered with the same reamer used for my match rifles in 6.5x284 does not have quite energy or velocity needed for shots over 350yds for that specific bullet IMHO on feral hogs and deer.

So are you saying that those particular SMK's are designed differently (according to your inside contacts) and have different core compositions, jacket thicknesses at the base, jacket taper ratios,etc. than other MK's?

Would that imply that Sierra is actually designing some SMK's differently than others and considering hunting and terminal ballistics as part of their design criteria?

Yes that is a Stone Cold Fact that all of the jackets are different for each bullet however, the consideration of hunting and terminal ballistics are not part of the design criteria in any way , shape, form, or fashion...

19 November 2008, 20:03

olarmy

Why would they do that? Not trying to be a smart axx. Just doesn't make any sense to me.

19 November 2008, 22:57

Saeed

Gentlemen,

We have cut samples of all the bullets we had here a while ago. They include Sierra Match Kings, and some European made bullets as well.

We could not tell if there was any difference in the jacket thickness of the SMKs and normal soft points.

In fact, it looked like they had slightly thicker jackets than some of the hunting bullets made by RWS.

From our visual inspection, it looked like that all SP bullets offered have the same jacket thickness, and the cores were not bonded.

Premium hunting bullets were different, however.

We have recovered jackets from animals we have shot in South Africa, and those jackets looked exactly the same as jackets recovered from animals shot using PMP factory SP ammo.

19 November 2008, 23:01

tasunkawitko

quote:
Originally posted by jwp475:
quote:
Originally posted by tasunkawitko:
of course - no one ever posts the "failures" on the interenet....

Are you most certain about that?

i stand corrected!

19 November 2008, 23:12

jwp475

quote:
tasunkawitko

I take it that you glazed over Saeed's post as well?

Of course the fact that they inflicted a lethal wound and made a one shot kill also elluded you

20 November 2008, 00:40

tasunkawitko

i'm not glazing over anything, i am simply not letting your lucky, sloppy shot change my mind.

i don't expect to change your mind, but i will say that in this situation, one-shot kills are irrelevant; you can make a one-shot kill with a .22lr, that doesn't mean it is designed for elk hunting.

as for saeed's posts; i share his love for hunting and i greatly respect his dedication to the study of shooting, reloading, ballistics etc., but the issue has little to do with jacket thickness. it makes more sense to take all the information as a whole, rather than comb through and pick out the little bit that supports one decision.

your picture and your story of the bullet's performance in that case confirms that the terminal characteristics of the SMK do not have hunting ingrained into their design.

this is beside the point, and i realize that the potential is there with any bullet, but your reckless decision to take such a long shot with a bullet not designed for hunting is ridiculous. i'm in my mid-30s, but if my dad caught me doing something like that, he'd kick my ass. if i took that much meat out of my childrens' mouths just to try a stunt, i'd be ashamed.

20 November 2008, 00:45

jwp475

Yep, you glazed over this one..
Lucky shot, I guess all of the Game taken by others over the many years with SMKs were all just lucky

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
We were going to go on safari to South Africa in 2002. And as on a previous hunt there, we found that sometimes one has to take rather long shots at some animals.

So we built a rifle specially for this purpose, and chambered it for our 30/404 wildcat.

I tried differnt makes of 180 grain bullets in it, and we got over 3400 fps with all of them with very good accuracy.

So, in the interest of testing, I loaded several different types of 180 grain bullets in it.

Including the Sierra Match Kings.

Our first hunting area was in Zululand, for zebra, reedbuck and nyala. All of these were shot at relatively close range.

I used the 180 grain Match King bullets, and all worked very well.

They did fall apart, but not any more than normal soft points as loaded by the factories.

As a matter of choice, I prefer bullets that hold together and penetrate rather than those that expand explosively for hunting.

But if my only choice is between Match Kings or normal factory soft point, I would pick the Match Kings.

Churchhill, was right

quote:
Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.
- Winston Churchill

20 November 2008, 00:57

tasunkawitko

you forgot to mention that they cure cancer and lay golden eggs!

20 November 2008, 01:12

jwp475

quote:
Originally posted by tasunkawitko:
you forgot to mention that they cure cancer and lay golden eggs!

I wouldn't mention BS like that, but of course you would.

Ignorance knows no bounds, thanks for confirming that

20 November 2008, 01:14

tasunkawitko

20 November 2008, 05:14

p dog shooter

tasunkawitko my dad had close to 80 years of hunting behind him started shooting deer for the table in the depression with a 22rf his farvorite deer rifle was 99 sav in 300. he shot hundreds of heads of big game. Was one of the last legal bear trappers in Wis.

You know what my Dad said about long or short shots as long as you can kill them cleanly.

One of his old hunting buddys who killed lots of deer also use only surplus fmj 30-40 krag in is win 95. That old timer said those new soft points wasted to much meat.

My dad always said it doesn't matter what you shoot them with in the lungs they well only run a little ways and die.

Why and how do Afican hunter use soilds on their game and still kill them. How do pistol shooters using hard cast kill anything how do muzzle loaders and round balls kill anything.(talk about balisticly inferior)

I've been hunting reloading and testing bullets before you were even a dream in your daddys head. I shot big game with every thing from 22lf to over 40 cal DGRs. Cast bullets light for cal bullets heavy for cal bullets. Expensive, cheap and other wise bullets.

I have gutted, skinned, butchered hundreds of heads of big game and stuied the wounds in all of them. Shot with many differant bullets and cailbers.

You know what if you get a bullet into their lungs they run a little bit and die.

When you get another 20 or so more years of hunting behind you and 100s of head of big game behind you I might listen to what you are saying.

20 November 2008, 19:21

Boss Hoss

p dog shooter----I think it is evident from posts here that just because you have a computer and can type it does not make you the great hunting oracle --- like you I have lost count on the number of feral hogs for example that I have killed with a 55gr fmj shot thru the lungs and killed with my SR-15 (catch them in stock tanks wallowing). It is much more important where you shoot them than what you shoot them. I will admit none were over 100 yards however the point is that when you put them in the right place they will die. Very hard to breathe when the lungs are full of blood.

21 November 2008, 02:21

p dog shooter

Boss Hoss your first point is my point it matters a lot more where you shoot them then with what.

Your 2nd point There are people who have killed more game then I have and you could very well be one of them.

But I do get sick and tired of people who have done a lot less telling others what how and when they should shoot something. I have lived breath firearms,hunting, reloading for over 45 years. I don't watch proffessional sports I shoot hunt reload and study firearms. I get paid to teach people to shoot. I have a bit of experiance with ballistics. I have shot bullets through crony's into test medium and animals for over 4 decades. I have been in on buthering 100's of animals and looking at the wound channels.

I'll admit I do not know every thing. But I have been around the block.

21 November 2008, 06:40

N. Garrett

I've already participated in this debate back in 1992.

At that point I'd been handloading for about 15 years, and thought I knew a few things.

An acquaintance of mine was handloading his 308 Win AND another buddy's 300 Weatherby with SMK bullets.

I told them it was the wrong bullet, too frangible, not recommended by the manufacturer, etc., but they kept shooting them.

They killed everything they shot with them...mostly whitetail, but a few hogs too.

Not my choice for a hunting bullet, but I can vouch for it's performance on whitetail.

Garrett

21 November 2008, 07:55

olarmy

Boss: You never answered the question. Why would Sierra manufacture certain bullets in their MK line using different design cirteria (modifying the alloy of the core, jacket thickness, etc., with terminal performance in mind)? Still makes no sense to me.

21 November 2008, 19:32

jwp475

300 grain 338 cal SMK recovered from Elk

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/0-338-smk-nab-35303-post241680/

21 November 2008, 20:38

tasunkawitko

21 November 2008, 23:47

jwp475

Most beleive that a lethal wound is nessecary to kill and destruction is a part of the process, but of course your dumb inexperienced ass doesn't recognize this fact. So continue you are a laugh a minute, great entertainment

22 November 2008, 00:28

tasunkawitko

22 November 2008, 00:39

jwp475

That's all you've got? Quite sad maybe you can dream up something, with a bit more of your hallucinations

22 November 2008, 00:43

jwp475

tasunkawitko, any pictures of your own? Just those that you lifted off the internet. You fit in much better in the polictical forum than in the hunting area

22 November 2008, 02:33

tasunkawitko

quote:
Ignored post by SlobHunter posted 21.November.2008 13:43

22 November 2008, 06:03

Rub Line

I talked myself into hunting deer with 30 cal SMK's in my M1 garand. Shot a deer and never found it. I did, however, find bits and pieces of hide, fat and muscle everywhere. Very little blood. looked kind of like the bullet hit the shoulder blade and exploded on impact. There were small bits of tissue all over the surrounding twigs, branches and leaves.

For all of your success stories, there is one failure (my own damn fault) that will make me NEVER use SMK's on game again. With all of the excellent hunting bullets available, other than ignorance, why on earth would you use inferior bullets. (Inferior based on MANUFACTURERS statement).

I have shot SMK's for years in Highpower matches with wonderful success.

22 November 2008, 06:18

jwp475

A unrecovered Deer is only speculation, is it not?

22 November 2008, 06:38

p dog shooter

jwp475 I seen this on a couple of MK treads I shot a critter and never recoved it. Bullet must of blew up penciled through ect. how can any one know unless they found the critter.

25 November 2008, 20:52

tasunkawitko

my understanding is that the problem with SMKs is the tip. it is not designed to open, expand or penetrate game. it can certainly be capable of it, but it is not designed for this and can not be counted on to do this.

the tip might open up, expand and penetrate, but it is just as likely to blow up at any time once it contacts the animal. it is also just as likely that the tip will crush and pencil through, tumble or what have you. this is because it is designed to go through a target and terminal performance on game was not in any way considered in its development.

asking any bullet to do what it is not designed to do, knowing that there are better choices there, is a risky decision and a coin toss that leads to lucky success or a disastrous wounding of an animal.