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Son shot a nice Blacktail this morning pics added bullet pics added

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16 August 2010, 01:22
Mike_Dettorre
Son shot a nice Blacktail this morning pics added bullet pics added
Don't have the pics download yet but I am a proud Dad.

Nice big 18+ forky well really a 2x3 but the third point is pretty small. He made a nice 145 yard shot with the animal at a steep quartering away angle.

Bullet entered at the front edge of the right rear ham and traversed all the way across and we recovered it in the left front shoulder. Penetration was about 30 inches. Took out the liver and part of the lungs. This was a big bodied buck by CA standards. Estimated weight about 150 lbs. He had 3/4 of inch of subcutaneous fat. Very healthy deer.

Barnes 180 grn TSX at approximately 2700 fps out of his takedown BLR in 30-06. Recovered bullet weighed 173.3 grains and shed 1 petal.

Bullet mushroomed to .565 inches

Me, I missed a buck this morning, just couldn't quite get settled on the sticks. There were three of them together and between trying to decide which of the three to shoot and then waiting till they cleared each other...I basically screwed the pooch. I had the crosshairs walking all over the place...then it became now or never...and well you get the picture. Anyway headed back out again tonight and will post pics when I can. Only supposed to be 93 degress this afternoon.

Update, weatherman lied it was 95 when we started hunting at 4pm...

Here are the pics from this morning...












Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
16 August 2010, 01:40
StormsGSP
Congrats to you both!

On another note, I'm really jealous of your guys already getting out there.


-----------------------------------------
"I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived. -Henry David Thoreau, Walden
16 August 2010, 01:41
Doc
please post pics when you can. good luck this afternoon


Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns
16 August 2010, 09:25
ravenr
aaahhhhh..... pictures..... mike......
the cable goes in the thinga-ma-bob and you push a couple buttons and presto chango
how hard can it be??
seriously,sounds like you had a great time
congrats to son, and father..
16 August 2010, 10:46
Mike_Dettorre
to the top with the pics


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
16 August 2010, 11:46
Sean Browne
Congrats on the great buck! Looks like you were hunting with Kyler? Always a great time. I remember seeing one like that two years ago pig hunting with Kyler. Man has it been that long!!!

Great job!

-Sean
16 August 2010, 18:53
Aspen Hill Adventures
Congrats and great pics! Smiler


~Ann


16 August 2010, 19:35
Grenadier
Great deer. Most people, especially those from the east, don't know that blacktail deer have much smaller racks than mule deer or whitetails. That buck may not have a lot of points but the spread is pretty wide for a blacktail. That is a very respectable deer. Well done.




.
16 August 2010, 21:14
Jack D Bold
Mike,

Way to GOOOO! I am envious my friend. You find a quality hunt, not very pricey, with your boy, in your own back yard. A grand slam in my book.


"You only gotta do one thing well to make it in this world" - J Joplin
16 August 2010, 21:21
daniel77
Congrats to both of you. I can't imagine hunting deer in this heat. beer




http://dauphinhorsemanship.com/
16 August 2010, 21:43
31/2Makesmelaugh
Great buck! I like that rifle too!


"Archery enshrines the principles of human relationships. The Archer perfects his form within himself. If his form is perfect, yet when he releases he misses, there is no point in resenting those who have done better than him. The fault lies nowhere."(Confucious)
17 August 2010, 00:27
Bobby Tomek
That's a terrific buck and will make for some great memories.

Here's hoping you get to tag one as well.


Bobby
Μολὼν λαβέ
The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri

17 August 2010, 00:46
Kamo Gari
Very nice! The apple doesn't fall far from the tree either, I see... Wink


______________________

Hunting: I'd kill to participate.
17 August 2010, 02:35
sdirks
Very nice! I hunted in northern CA a few seasons back when I lived there (Cache Creek). I never saw one that big when I was deer hunting. I really like being able to hunt this early, but I do NOT miss the heat! Congratulations!
17 August 2010, 06:05
Tim Herald
Very nie...congrats to you both. I have never taken a blacktail, but I have seen plenty, and I think COl Blacktails are the most handsome of all the deer...


Good Hunting,

Tim Herald
Worldwide Trophy Adventures
tim@trophyadventures.com
17 August 2010, 10:38
Dago Red
Congratulations! What zone are you in? I figured I wouldn't have time this year to hunt, didn't get a license and tags, and today stumbled on a good spot to go, saw a 4 point, in velvet, not 15' off the road.

Red
17 August 2010, 11:11
Wade Derby
You must be proud, great buck. Even better memories. Congratulations, Wade
18 August 2010, 03:53
Mike_Dettorre
Dago,

I was in A zone outside of Parkfield, CA


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
18 August 2010, 06:21
Mike_Dettorre
Thank you everyone for the nice comments...I am one proud Dad.

Sean - yep hunted with Kyler. As always a great time hunting with him.


31/2 Makes Me Laugh - he is a lefty hence the reason for the BLR.

It really was a very nice shot given the steep quartering away angle...145 yards sitting across sticks.

Oh I forgot to add, it was his first buck ever.


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
18 August 2010, 08:22
Kyler Hamann
Phil really did make a great shot. It was a tough angle, but it was all we had.

Too bad we didn't fill the group. The bucks were fast and furious the first morning, but seemed to evaporate after that. There were several that posed for the trail camera that we never could find in the flesh, but nothing like Phil's.

Always good hunting with Mike and his tribe.

I've hunted in the cold on a few occasions, I'll take 95 over that any day.

Kyler
18 August 2010, 20:12
Blacktailer
Great buck Mike and son. Tell Kyler to herd some of those over my way. Been playing cat and mouse with a couple of forkies on my place. Sooner or later one of them will make a mistake.


Have gun- Will travel
The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark
18 August 2010, 23:41
Sevenxbjt
Great job and nice buck! Now let's work on getting you one.
19 August 2010, 17:34
Geedubya
Mike,
I took a reading at my lease last Sunday at 3:00 PM DST, with my A/C thermometer. In the direct sun it read 116 degrees F. In the shade it read 110. Saw a couple of jacks carrying canteens it was so hot. A balmy 93 is what it settles down to at nite.
Anyhow, enjoyed the pix. Looks like some fine country to hunt in. Good looking buck. Be some fine eatin'. I've missed a time or two, or three. Drives me friggin' nuts. I have a tendency to jerk the trigger rather than concentrate and squeeze.
Well one thing about a miss, it gives you another opportunity to get out there amongst them.
Best
GWB
19 August 2010, 21:52
Mike_Dettorre
GW,

You Texans are tough though...

Just measured him at the taxidermist he was actualy 19 1/4 wide and 13.5 high.


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
20 August 2010, 08:00
dwheels
Congratulations to you and your son. Great pictures and a real good bullet choice. DW
01 September 2010, 05:13
Kyler Hamann
Not to hi-jack Mike's thread, but Tony H. (who posts here) took this nice buck on Sunday evening. It was just two ridges to the west of Phil's buck.



He took it with one shot out of a beautiful pre-'64 model 70 in .270. He's hunted with me long enough to know that I can't be left alone with rifles that nice. They could disappear due to an untorrid Sasquatch incident... or some such malarkey.


___________________________
www.boaring.com
_____
01 September 2010, 06:16
Mike_Dettorre
That is a nice looking forky. That left rear tine is exceptionally long.

Congrats Tony.

Oh yeah...the guide is an ok guy


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
01 September 2010, 06:35
capoward
Congradulations to all three of you. Very nice CA deer.


Jim coffee
"Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid"
John Wayne
02 September 2010, 00:25
aerostarp
Congrats to you and your son. I know how proud you are as I have been fortunate enough to experience it myself with my boys.


**********************
>
I'd rather be a CONSERVATIVE NUTJOB than a Liberal with no NUTS & No JOB
>


02 September 2010, 00:35
George Semel
Good for him, that is a very nice buck. And the other one is a good one too! A state of the art rifle and one from our storied past! And never mind the cartridges.
02 September 2010, 01:46
Ricardo C
Tony H
Nice deer but the best thing is you took it with my favorite rifle,the Win , Pre 64 model 70. I've taken everything with it from Moose,Caribou and Black Bear to Pronghorn and Mule Deer. I guess your another Jack O'Connor deciple like i am.
02 September 2010, 05:31
TonyH
Thanks gents, for the nice comments. Hunting with Kyler is always a pleasure. As far as pre-'64s go, I am indeed an O'Connor disciple. When I was a young guy reading Jack in Outdoor Life, I promised myself that I would have some of those. I have 5, ranging up to 375 H&H, and I love them. Triggers are not the greatest, but whatever, they were made over 50 years ago.
02 September 2010, 06:51
Kyler Hamann
All 5 of Tony's pre-'64's are beautiful, but since he's hunted with me for so many years he knows never to bring more than one at a time. That way he can keep at least one hand on the rifle whenever I'm around. He's been JUMPY that way ever since he blames me for his shooting sticks "disappearing" oh so many years ago.

And don't even get Dettorre started about the pruning shears he "loaned" me...
02 September 2010, 10:43
TonyH
It's true about the shooting sticks. They disappeared in the nether regions of Kyler's Suburban many years ago. I made such a fuss, he shipped me a new set; industrial strength ones.

In those days he was not that enthusiastic about shooting sticks. Now he seems more amenable and even encourages their use. I used his the other day but couldn't help wondering...
05 September 2010, 23:12
Mike_Dettorre
Oh yeah...I find the perfect pair of light weight buck pruning shears. Great for clearing a path or making blind material.

Perfect for the fanny pack. I "loan" them to my "guide" for field testing...next thing you know he is trying to convince me that they have been lost... Roll Eyes

He really thinks I fall for this stuff... dancing

I tell you...some people's kids... Big Grin


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.