Bear Protection

01 February 2002, 15:35

Socrates

Bear Protection

Bearhunter:
Maybe you are right, and I got the bears, and the IRS confused.
:wink:

Anyway, Griz let you know they are around? How?
They stand up and warn you? What about motherbear, with cubs??

I have never watched a polar bear stalk, except on TV, but don't you have to worry about those guys up there??? Seems to me they are rather large, and like to have a human snack, if the chance is there.

01 February 2002, 16:30

JoelS

Bearhuntr,
You seen 22 bears up close but the real question is how many didnt you see that were close by? I'm sure the number would be pretty high. I do agree that there alot of people who are walking around in the woods that shouldnt be there. Just look at most of the popular trails on the kenai. Its a wonder more people dont get attacked sometimes.

01 February 2002, 17:24

bearhunt'r

Socrates,

Understand that I am as far away from any polar bears as Texas is to the Canadian border; this is a very large place. I could only speculate as to the white bear's tendencies (I've never seen one or been within a couple of hundred miles from one,) yet I believe that in the same sense, my previous statement might possibly apply. This is what I mean: brown and black bears smell badly, leave scat and tracks, root around and dig up the earth. They live in dark, wet, "thick" places and are always found around salmon streams. They move around almost any time of the day. They love to lay on top of carcass's they have claimed for their own; does not matter if they killed the critter or not. These kills also smell. Cubs sound off alot and can alert the wary person easily.
I call this "woodcraft" as it relates to being aware. I would say that the time frame you might have between any of these signs and seeing the bear(s) might be immediate or could be minutes. One would tilt the outcome of a bad meeting (IMO)to their favor by not letting themselves become complacent if they haven't "seen a grizz" for days.

Joel S,

I'm sure that I have missed many bears as they slipped by me. Most bears will and do. A very good thing for many people here on the Kenai is that the majority of bears do not want anything to do with people.
I had a sow an THREE 2 year old cubs (Brown variety, thank you) waiting at my bait station for myself and a friend as we came back to claim the black bear I had shot about 3/4s of an hour earlier. They were 20' from my bear, and 25 yards from friend and I. We were able to use terrain, wind and sound (mosquitos) to our advantage and jump up the tree stand. I was very happy that the vacated the area as fast as they were able, which was fast indeed!

hope this clarifies my meaning a little better(clearer.)
best,
bhtr

01 February 2002, 17:47

<ovis>

Here on the Kenai, Bearhunt'r you're right! I saw quite a few here on the Anchor, but the numbers we saw at Tustumena were really something. We were there when the two caribou hunters encountered the sow on Moose Cr. That was just bad luck. We were on Bear Cr. at the time and the bear were thick. Brownies down low, Blackies up high.

JoelS,
good observation, point on.

01 February 2002, 20:24

Socrates

Guys:
Alaska is as far from my reality as Africa is.

Please feel free to describe your situation, and game. I find it fascinating.

I sort of like bears. I think it's kind of intresting that they can be tamed, are very bright, and don't eat everyone they could.

Still, some dogs need to be put down...
gs

01 February 2002, 20:44

Socrates

Bear protection;-)

01 February 2002, 20:45

Socrates

Bear protection;-)
Subject: RE: Bear joke

A guy really wanted to hunt bear. He'd never hunted bear before, or anything else for that matter. He went to a gun shop and bought a rifle, a hunting license, and some camouflage clothes. Then he headed for the mountains.

He stumbled around in the woods a while and finally spotted a bear. He carefully aimed and shot at the bear. He missed it by a good margin.

As the hunter was trying to chamber another cartridge, he felt something tapping his shoulder. He turned to find himself looking up at a huge grizzly bear.

The bear said," OK hotshot. You've got two choices. Either we have rough sex or I maul you to death and eat you. Which will it be?"

The hunter thought a moment and agreed to the rough sex.

The bear really gave the hunter a rough time and messed him up a bit. In fact, the hunter had to spend a few days in the hospital.

The whole time the hunter was in the hospital, he thought about that bear. The more the thought, the madder he got. As soon as he got out of the hospital, he bought another rifle to replace the one the bear took and went hunting again.

Shortly, the hunter spotted a large grizzly. Again he fired, and missed. Again, he felt the tap on his shoulder. Again, he found himself looking up to that gigantic grizzly.

"OK Bub," said the Grizzly. "You know the drill, rough sex or I eat you. Which will it be."

Terrified, the hunter again agreed to the rough sex.

Again, the hunter was very badly used, and again, he was hospitalized. This time he was hospitalized for over a week. Again, anger at the bear raged.

When he got out of the hospital, he bought yet another rifle and headed for the mountains.

Shortly he spotted a bear, and as he drew a bead on it, he felt a tap on his shoulder.

The hunter turned to once again face the gigantic Grizzly.

The bear looked the hunter up and down with a scornful expression and said:

Be honest bub. You really don't come up here for the hunting do you?

02 February 2002, 06:40

Paul H

quote:
Originally posted by Socrates:
Guys:
Alaska is as far from my reality as Africa is.

Somewhere I've seen a map of the lower 48 with Alaska overlayed on top of it. Alaska is nearly as tall, and wide when you look at how the Aleutians curl out towards Russia. In the Southern part of the state, the vegetation is as thick as any jungle in many areas, and rainfall is very high. This describes much of the brown bear habitat. Start heading north, and as you cross the Brooks Range, slightly above the Arctic Circle, the trees are gone, and you are in barren tundra. This is inhabited by grizzly bears, which are ~ 1/2 the size of coastal brown bears, and at the Arctic Coast, polar bears which are ~ as large as coastal browns.

The polar bears live on the ice pack in the short summer, and during winter, will come ashore. I have spent time in the polar bears habitat, but have never seen one.

Much more fauna and flora I'm skipping over, but the state offers an incredible variety.

02 February 2002, 12:21

bearhunt'r

Ovis,

I was up at Lake Emma overlooking the Indian Creek Glacier when that pair of Boo hunters got roughed up by momma. Young friend and I were looking for blackies. Set in one place and put the glasses on the following:
18 black bears
24 mt. goats
50+ dall sheep
1 cow moose
3 brown bear (momma and twins)
this area is one of the wildest, neatest places I know of. We actually hiked over the top and around the glacier! It was real hairy in a couple of spots, and took us 2 1/2 days to do it.

When we came down, we were back home for several hours before we heard about the attack. Seems the fellows had seen momma and young-uns and waited for several minutes before continuing down the trail, but made mistake and ended in between them anyway. Is this your read? If so, they must of had the old thinkin cap in their back packs!
best,
bhtr

02 February 2002, 12:32

<rwj>

My point on shooting bear when they are farther out instead when they might be closer in does not discount the idea of bumping into one in tall willows and grass...I did not discount the idea that a person has to be smart enough NOT to go sneaking around the bush...and no amount of common-sense can over come being unarmed or undergunned, at any range. I agree with everything that Bearhunt'r said: be aware of your environment and carry a big gun. If you do not want to sneak up on a bear in the bush then make a lot of noise and carry a big gun.

And I will say that when I set out my bait station last April, on the upper Kenai, in about 5 feet of snow, the first bear that hit it was a huge brown bear, on about April 26th, and that scared the day-lights out of me...he tore up that bait station and I later had to move it.

02 February 2002, 13:42

JoelS

RWJ,
was that site on the kenai lake area? I know there is a big brownie on the lake and he loves bait stations. Seen him once and had him in my camp.

02 February 2002, 14:48

<rwj>

That was not mine...it is a glorious thought though that those beasts are running around that place

. So close yet so far!

03 February 2002, 06:26

<cohoyo>

Kent, I would have to say a big caliber is better than a small one. my experience is you're going to get one shot and if you hit with that one then you'll probably have time for a second but that's about it. you also have to keep in minde that everyone loves to talk about bears but the actual truth is your chances of having to shoot one in self defense is really small. Keep a clean camp, keep your eyes open and be aware of what you are doing and you won't have a problem. with that said lets keep talking about it anyway.
I much prefer a shotgun over any pistol because trying to hit anything with a pistol under stressful conditions is all but impossible. that's not to say a pistol doesn't have any use, I carry a freedom arms .454 most of the time but it's just in case ones on top of me. I once had a bear sniffing up and down my tent at night and all I had was a shotgun, If he would have jumped on me the only thin I could have shot was me. that's when I realized the value of a pistol. they are also very convienent to carry when I'm fishing with the kids but I also have my marlin 45/70 close by if I can or my 12ga with 3 inch breneke slugs. I did some testing with buckshot and was way less than impressed with the consistancy of the pattern and I'm not convinced that thoes little lead balls are going to have the impact of a slug.

03 February 2002, 07:01

dan belisle

As our "enlightened, liberal government" has decided that none of it's citizens are responsible enough to tote a handgun in bear country, we use long guns. (That's our story and we're stickin' to it!) Most of my fly fishing buddies either take nothing (the "the bear isn't really after me" crowd) or they pack a cut down 12 gauge. I know one gent who packed a carbine 458 Sako for a while, but the fish cops hassled him about "poaching" so he went back to his shotgun. As to the polar bears, I used to live in Churcill, which is right in the bears' seasonal migration path, and all the bears that we saw (and we saw a LOT of bears) were not concerned about humans. Quite a few were shot by the locals with 303's. Manitoba Forestry (at the time) used 30-06 rifles. If any of you live in a small town where the fire siren or bell goes off at noon, they used to use the same system sort of. We were told that when we heard two short blasts of the siren that some bears were going through town, and you should really watch out and get off the street. Not the most calming situation. In the early 70's I watched a polar bear push a Forestry truck sideways until it slid into the ditch. he wanted the lunches that were inside, National geographic were there filming and they got shots of this. As I told my partner who asked "Shoudn't we do something?", "Nope he (the bear)can do whatever he wants. I quit." - Dan

03 February 2002, 13:12

<ovis>

Bearhun'r,

I got the same idea. Talked to a officer that was there when they tried to get the one guy to go back and show them where the mauling took place....he wouldn't go! I guess after he shot the sow off his partner he'd had enough for a day, don't blame him. I also agree on that being just an unbelievable area. I'll probably be in there this coming season as I didn't draw a sheep permit. Fishin' ain't too bad either!!!!!! We saw one of the biggest blacks I've ever seen up top. Just a great place.

03 February 2002, 16:03

<waldog>

Time for another bear story... just for fun.

Two foolish guys were hiking through bear country unarmed. When suddenly they rounded a corner in the woods and surprised a ferocious momma bear and her cubs!

Slowly they started to back back up when one of the guys sits down, yanks his boots off, and laces up a pair of running shoes that were in his backpack.

"What the hell do you think you're doing?" asks his buddy, "you can't outrun that bear!!!"

"I don't have to outrun that bear.... I only have to outrun you!"

04 February 2002, 09:33

Here ya go Paul, a picture of Alaska over the loer 48...

------------------
Brian
The 416 Taylor WebPage!

[This message has been edited by BW (edited 02-03-2002).]

15 February 2002, 15:09

Mark R Dobrenski

I had to defend myself last spring from a small (150# pound blackie) down here last spring. I shot him as he was coming hard for me at 9 feet! I shot him just under the chin with a 25-06 (2x). It made me do a lot of thinking about bears and protecting one self should I ever get the chance again.
I went thru the whole thing but came to the conclusion I can't shoot a pistol well enough to feel comfy, despite a fair bit of shooting using it double and single action. I wasn't comy with the penetrating power of a shotgun-nor did I feel it was a good gun to end something b4 it starts. ( I do a bit of bear guiding and if another bruin gets wounded I'll put an end to it b4 it gets to a 9 foot propostion again-even though the F&G would have a dim view of it. But what the heck it's my buns right! What I am saying here is that if the bruin is goin away and it looks like it could get dicey I will shoot!
I ended up getting a 06 pump with a short tube and sighted it in with 200 Nozlers. For me it comes up quick and is fast to reload. Even though when I shot the bruin at 9 feet I shot twice and the fella farily close to me thought I'd shot once and that was with a bolt gun, guess I can work one quick if I need to eh. I am thinking of putting a peep on a 416 Rem or a 416 Taylor or a 375 of some kind, and abbreviating the tube to about 19 or 21 ".
I saw JD respond about a 35 pump, so I guess I am just wondering what you all think about a pump?
By the way I do my guiding for blackies down here in Big Sky Country and not up north where the big boys live.

Thanks for your time

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

16 February 2002, 02:04

crowrifle

Brownies and grizzlies are few and far between here in North Carolina, so I don't profess to know much about what it may take to put one down. What I do know is that many road hunters ( and I use the term hunters very liberally ) use shotguns and buckshot for deer hunting with dogs. I have seen many 125-pound deer hit at close range that continued on as if it wasn't even uncomfortable to be hit buckshot. Point is, if buckshot fails to incapacitate a smallish deer at modest ranges I don't know if I would bet the farm on using it for large bear.
Better to have something mounted on a carriage that has a lanyard attached.

16 February 2002, 15:24

bearhunt'r

quote:
Originally posted by Mark R Dobrenski:
I saw JD respond about a 35 pump, so I guess I am just wondering what you all think about a pump?
Dog

Mark,
I've never owned a pump rifle, not because I didn't think they would work, just because I have not run across one in my neck 'o' the woods. I have shot a few rounds through a Browning auto and really liked the way it came up and pointed (w/iron sites!) I believe a pump woud be a real fast, lethal weapon for any bruin you might come in contact. 200 grns. @ 2500fps would just about do any bear, period!

I was wondering, what are the chances of an off color blackie in your area? I've done the "black"phase any number of times and would dearly love to collect an off-colored one.
best,
bhtr

16 February 2002, 15:47

<steve+>

quote:
Originally posted by Kent in IA:
After reading post on were to shoot a grizzly I got to thinking. Obviously, I wouldn't use a shotgun especially with buckshot. It sounds like there is very little time to aim also it sounds like you may need to hit the bear many times.
Which would be a better bear protection gun . A large caliber such as a 458 Win Mag, or a big bore battle rifle like a M1A or FAL? Is the big bullet better or several smaller ones?
Kent

>if hiking, etc<

I live in Penna.,down south near the Md. border. We occassionally see a black bear down here,but they are very rare. So,when hiking near home,I carry my .45 M1911A1,'cause I'm more concerned about bad people than bad bears.
On the other hand,I hike in the northern part of the state,near NY border,a lot. Lots of bears in the mountains up there,some have weighed in excess of 700lbs,so I carry either a .41 Blackhawk or .41 S&W N-frame. The .45ACP stays in a small of the back IWB,'cause there are still bad people up there.
When I'm bear hunting,I usually carry a 7mm Mag or .30/06,but a .41 or .44 or .45 Colt always goes along,just in case.Rifles get factory loads but the revolvers usually get loaded with a hard cast lead or Hornady HP/XTP,with a near max. powder charge.

16 February 2002, 18:43

Mark R Dobrenski

Bearhunter- not enought time now, gotta hit the rack. Early a.m. is for yotes and then prairie dogs.

Will report on color phases manya

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

17 February 2002, 04:58

Brad

Hey Dog!

Drop me an e-mail with info where I can track you down. Called your house Thursday, but the roomie said you were gone... headed to Great Falls? Anyway, I couldn't get you on the cell # you left either.

Was out shooting the 300 WSM yesterday... beautiful day!

Brad

18 February 2002, 17:40

D Hunter

I have only hunted bear a few times and I have never had close encounters of the grizzley kind. I have read most everything I could get my hands on re bear and lion. One of the African writers refering to lion said that unless the beast kills you with a head blow it will take a while to get mauled to death. Not a happy thought. The author(Taylor?) indicated that a pistol may be of some benefit in this instance. You may well have time to get a pistol out and whack him in the neck or behind the ear. Either may bring festivities to an abrupt halt or at least provide a bit of discouragement. I think this is the difference between "hunting gun" and "last ditch defense while you are feeding the bear various non essential body parts gun". For hunting a 375 or better. For last ditch 44 or 45. I hope none here have to utilize the last ditch tools of the trade in such a manner. Good hunting. "D"

18 February 2002, 18:04

Stryker225

I've heard of a park ranger who when mauled a grizzly pulled out a .38 spl revolver, hold it against its neck and fired several times. The bear released him and went off to die somewhere.. Another killed a lion when it dragged him into the bushes with the same method(and I think with the same type of weapon). It would suck hard

if a lion knocked down someone's rifle and the person doesn't have any else to shoot it with.

18 February 2002, 18:24

Socrates

" I think this is the difference between "hunting gun" and "last ditch defense while you are feeding the bear various non essential body parts gun". For hunting a 375 or better. For last ditch 44 or 45. I hope none here have to utilize the last ditch tools of the trade in such a manner. Good hunting. "D" "
ROFL

Great stuff

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I love 45
santilli@singleaction45.com